ImageImage

The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development

Moderators: dms269, HMFFL, Jamaaliver

User avatar
Atlanta Hawk Fan
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 7,653
And1: 659
Joined: Jul 19, 2002

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#321 » by Atlanta Hawk Fan » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:55 pm

jayu70 wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:
Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
AD absolutely plays winning basketball. You put him on a teams with the talent that OKC has had and he'd have a ring today. He is not good enough to carry a team on his own and NO has been an absolute dumpster fire in building a team around him. They have had 2 D-League (or slightly better) level players in the starting lineup for most of his time there and he isn't so transcendent that he can overcome that. You'll see when he leaves NO and start winning big and consistently.

I get what you’re saying and the moment I posted I looked at his teams. Outside a having a few quality wings, most teams he’s been on have been..Eh. Pelicans GM staff is pretty damn bad.

It was hyperbole largely, but I’m planting a seed. Now every time I watch him, I’ll be looking closely to see how he’s impacting the game.

NOP was impatient building the team around AD. Instead of letting it grow organically with their own picks and value FA signing they went for quick fixes to go for a quick rebuild and chances to make playoffs in a tough West.


When they drafted Davis, they also whiffed badly and selected Austin Rivers at #10 overall over Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Jae Crowder, Jeremy Lamb, etc. Rivers never did anything for the Pelicans and was given away for a bag of potatoes so his dad could overpay him in LA.

This apparently traumatized the front office or bolstered them with such confidence that they thought they were done building with rookie contract players (it is unclear what was in their head). In either case, they bizarrely gave away all their first round picks for injured players on expensive contracts the summer after drafting Davis meaning he was usually playing both with no new blood from the draft but also with injury fill-ins for their trade targets as well as free agent Eric Gordon who missed a ton of games while sucking up sweet, sweet cap space.

In short, their quick fixes frequently ended up as albatrosses instead of assets. Examples:

* Immediately after drafting Davis, New Orleans traded the #6 overall pick in 2013 and their 2014 first round pick for Jrue Holiday who promptly missed 88 games the next two seasons. They gambled on a resign of him for over $120M which is working out about as well as they could have hoped with him being reasonably productive and healthy.

* The same month, New Orleans traded away Robin Lopez on a rookie contract for Tyreke Evans on an expensive resign. Guess who missed 88 games in his second and third years of that contract and never made an impact? (It's Tyreke Evans for those playing at home).

* Now that New Orleans had traded away their young defensive center, what do you do to fill that role? Why trade your 2015 first round pick for Omer Asik and sign him to a nice $60M contract. Guess who was injured over the next couple seasons and peaked at 7.3 point per game? Who has two thumbs, a big bank account? (It's Omer Asik.)

Since Davis was drafted, the NOP have literally not had a first round pick on the roster for even one season. Buddy Hield has the longest tenure at 57 games (the guy now averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists for less than $4M/year).

It is mind boggling how little NOP has done to build a sustainable talent base behind Davis. The only lottery picks on that roster besides Davis are guys other teams didn't want to resign (Jahlil, Wesley Johnson, Randle, Elfrid Payton, etc.).

And they always have weak sisters of the poor playing big minutes on the wing:
2018-19 E'Twaun Moore (starter), Darius Miller (7 starts)
2017-18 E'Twaun Moore (80 starts), Dante Cunningham (22 starts), Darius Miller (3 starts), DeAndre Liggins (3 starts)
2016-17 Starts from rookie Buddy Hield (39% fg%), E'Twaun Moore, Dante Cunningham, Hollis Thompson, Wayne Seldon
2015-16 Dante Cunningham (46 starts), Alonzo Gee (36 starts), Toney Douglas (18 starts), Luke Babbit (13 starts), Bryce Dejean-Jones (11 starts), James Ennis (5 starts), Jordan Hamilton (4 starts)

etc.

Incompetency at its finest.
Image
EazyRoc
Senior
Posts: 530
And1: 389
Joined: Dec 15, 2018

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#322 » by EazyRoc » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:40 pm

peoriabird wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:


You ain't the 1st...I was! 8-)

I’m in great company then :nod:
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 20,521
And1: 13,048
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#323 » by jayu70 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:56 pm

peoriabird wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:


You ain't the 1st...I was! 8-)

:lol: yes you did
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 20,521
And1: 13,048
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#324 » by jayu70 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:03 pm

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:I get what you’re saying and the moment I posted I looked at his teams. Outside a having a few quality wings, most teams he’s been on have been..Eh. Pelicans GM staff is pretty damn bad.

It was hyperbole largely, but I’m planting a seed. Now every time I watch him, I’ll be looking closely to see how he’s impacting the game.

NOP was impatient building the team around AD. Instead of letting it grow organically with their own picks and value FA signing they went for quick fixes to go for a quick rebuild and chances to make playoffs in a tough West.


When they drafted Davis, they also whiffed badly and selected Austin Rivers at #10 overall over Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Jae Crowder, Jeremy Lamb, etc. Rivers never did anything for the Pelicans and was given away for a bag of potatoes so his dad could overpay him in LA.

This apparently traumatized the front office or bolstered them with such confidence that they thought they were done building with rookie contract players (it is unclear what was in their head). In either case, they bizarrely gave away all their first round picks for injured players on expensive contracts the summer after drafting Davis meaning he was usually playing both with no new blood from the draft but also with injury fill-ins for their trade targets as well as free agent Eric Gordon who missed a ton of games while sucking up sweet, sweet cap space.

In short, their quick fixes frequently ended up as albatrosses instead of assets. Examples:

* Immediately after drafting Davis, New Orleans traded the #6 overall pick in 2013 and their 2014 first round pick for Jrue Holiday who promptly missed 88 games the next two seasons. They gambled on a resign of him for over $120M which is working out about as well as they could have hoped with him being reasonably productive and healthy.

* The same month, New Orleans traded away Robin Lopez on a rookie contract for Tyreke Evans on an expensive resign. Guess who missed 88 games in his second and third years of that contract and never made an impact? (It's Tyreke Evans for those playing at home).

* Now that New Orleans had traded away their young defensive center, what do you do to fill that role? Why trade your 2015 first round pick for Omer Asik and sign him to a nice $60M contract. Guess who was injured over the next couple seasons and peaked at 7.3 point per game? Who has two thumbs, a big bank account? (It's Omer Asik.)

Since Davis was drafted, the NOP have literally not had a first round pick on the roster for even one season. Buddy Hield has the longest tenure at 57 games (the guy now averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists for less than $4M/year).

It is mind boggling how little NOP has done to build a sustainable talent base behind Davis. The only lottery picks on that roster besides Davis are guys other teams didn't want to resign (Jahlil, Wesley Johnson, Randle, Elfrid Payton, etc.).

And they always have weak sisters of the poor playing big minutes on the wing:
2018-19 E'Twaun Moore (starter), Darius Miller (7 starts)
2017-18 E'Twaun Moore (80 starts), Dante Cunningham (22 starts), Darius Miller (3 starts), DeAndre Liggins (3 starts)
2016-17 Starts from rookie Buddy Hield (39% fg%), E'Twaun Moore, Dante Cunningham, Hollis Thompson, Wayne Seldon
2015-16 Dante Cunningham (46 starts), Alonzo Gee (36 starts), Toney Douglas (18 starts), Luke Babbit (13 starts), Bryce Dejean-Jones (11 starts), James Ennis (5 starts), Jordan Hamilton (4 starts)

etc.

Incompetency at its finest.

Jeeez, well when you break it down like that.....it looks even worse in print.
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 45,592
And1: 17,329
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#325 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:04 pm

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 45,592
And1: 17,329
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#326 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:00 pm

Read on Twitter
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 45,592
And1: 17,329
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#327 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:52 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 45,592
And1: 17,329
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#328 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:08 pm

January was the first month in which Trae Young beat the league average (55.8 percent) with a 57.7 true shooting percentage.

He's going to be fine.


Bleacher Report
dms269
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 8,756
And1: 1,736
Joined: Jun 27, 2005
     

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#329 » by dms269 » Fri Feb 1, 2019 3:37 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


So Chris Paul is the bust.
The moderator formerly known as uga_dawgs24
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 45,592
And1: 17,329
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#330 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Feb 2, 2019 7:53 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 20,521
And1: 13,048
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#331 » by jayu70 » Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:10 pm

Read on Twitter
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 9,775
And1: 5,481
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#332 » by King Ken » Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:22 pm

Sultanofatl wrote:As I said on HS, I think Trae will be our Matt Ryan.

I hate Matt Ryan. He will be our Chipper Jones or Josef Martinez mixed with the crazy talent of Deion Sanders and Michael Vick.
King Ken
General Manager
Posts: 9,775
And1: 5,481
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
   

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#333 » by King Ken » Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:25 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Insane when you realize CP3 played 36 MPG and Trae is at 30. What's more insane is when Trae gets 36-37 MPG, he gets 28 and 9 pretty easily.
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 45,592
And1: 17,329
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#334 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Feb 3, 2019 5:05 am

Read on Twitter


Sent from my RC555L using RealGM mobile app
Threezus
Veteran
Posts: 2,698
And1: 1,725
Joined: Jun 27, 2016
         

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#335 » by Threezus » Sun Feb 3, 2019 7:33 am

King Ken wrote:
Sultanofatl wrote:As I said on HS, I think Trae will be our Matt Ryan.

I hate Matt Ryan. He will be our Chipper Jones or Josef Martinez mixed with the crazy talent of Deion Sanders and Michael Vick.


How in the world can you hate Matt Ryan? He literally carries the Falcons offense and plays at a MVP level most season with a complete garbage O-line and Defense in most cases since he was drafted. He is also quite possibly the most clutch player since he was drafted in 2008 with the most 4th quarter comeback wins.
Mr Ice
Ballboy
Posts: 11
And1: 16
Joined: Jan 30, 2019
   

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#336 » by Mr Ice » Sun Feb 3, 2019 8:15 am

Threezus wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Sultanofatl wrote:As I said on HS, I think Trae will be our Matt Ryan.

I hate Matt Ryan. He will be our Chipper Jones or Josef Martinez mixed with the crazy talent of Deion Sanders and Michael Vick.


How in the world can you hate Matt Ryan? He literally carries the Falcons offense and plays at a MVP level most season with a complete garbage O-line and Defense in most cases since he was drafted. He is also quite possibly the most clutch player since he was drafted in 2008 with the most 4th quarter comeback wins.

Dont even bother man...if I've learned one thing in life, it's that matt ryan haters cant process reason or facts.
Threezus
Veteran
Posts: 2,698
And1: 1,725
Joined: Jun 27, 2016
         

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#337 » by Threezus » Sun Feb 3, 2019 8:42 am

Mr Ice wrote:
Threezus wrote:
King Ken wrote:I hate Matt Ryan. He will be our Chipper Jones or Josef Martinez mixed with the crazy talent of Deion Sanders and Michael Vick.


How in the world can you hate Matt Ryan? He literally carries the Falcons offense and plays at a MVP level most season with a complete garbage O-line and Defense in most cases since he was drafted. He is also quite possibly the most clutch player since he was drafted in 2008 with the most 4th quarter comeback wins.

Dont even bother man...if I've learned one thing in life, it's that matt ryan haters cant process reason or facts.


Fair enough my friend you are right about this i would imagine it's been a waste of my time everytime before.
User avatar
HMFFL
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 54,307
And1: 10,526
Joined: Mar 10, 2004

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#338 » by HMFFL » Sun Feb 3, 2019 11:16 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
Read on Twitter


Sent from my RC555L using RealGM mobile app
Many Hawk fans that I know continue to say how we missed out since we traded Luka. Young is playing so well.
I hope the Atlanta fans that I know come around and support Young. Maybe they should pay closer attention to the box scores or actually watch a game.

#TeamYoung

Sent from my SM-N920P using RealGM mobile app
Golden Knight
Analyst
Posts: 3,329
And1: 4,965
Joined: Feb 27, 2017
   

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#339 » by Golden Knight » Sun Feb 3, 2019 1:54 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Read on Twitter

That can't be right.

Simmons and Wall averaged 8.2 and 8.3 apg respectively.

If Sessions with just 17 games played as a rookie was mentioned then Rubio (41 games, 8.2 apg) and Ball (52 games, 7.2 apg) should have been as well.
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 20,521
And1: 13,048
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: The Case for being extremely patient with Trae Young's development 

Post#340 » by jayu70 » Sun Feb 3, 2019 2:05 pm

Read on Twitter

Love it!

Return to Atlanta Hawks