Future of PG position (in MIN)

[Jedzz]

To understand his value we need to ask one question. Why BRO has resigned Spencer, but never offered a contract to Russel. Lets not forget that Sean Marks is really smart GM.

That's because Marks is playing the long game and resigned Dinwiddie without break the bank. Maybe he isnt as good as Deangelo but also will cost a lost less money to keep. He probably is going to match any reasonable offer or let him go if it is a crazy one.

To me it is because Russell is same type as Wiggins.

That could be. He seems stuck where he's at. A lefty PG who peaked early? Meanwhile Dimwiddie has improved as his minutes improved each year. Russell has had to increase his volume with the same averages to offer more. Dimwiddie seems to be improving his averages and are already higher now than Russell's as Spencer's attempts and minutes rise.

[Jedzz]

I agree with "some" of what you have written here, but I suspect a lot of people would respond with saying something about durability. I think even Rose knows his body isn't going to last forever and can't be counted on to start most games over another long term contract. I think he likes the role he's playing and that role is enhanced with time split 2/3 with reserves, 1/3 with starters, with much of that 1/3 taking place in nut cuttin' time in the 4th quarter to end games.

I think the ideal PG for the squad is somewhere between the type of player that Tyus and Rose are, but that player just isn't out there right now, so we have to take fit and durability into account.

I'll agree with much of that as well. I do think Rose showed a vast improvement in 3 pt and distance shooting that nobody expected. He's also shown a lot more defensive skills this year than some here are giving him credit for. He's a skillful player who had his ego bell rung pretty hard and was physically tested. He seems more open and to understand there is more than one way to serve the team and when asked, is capable of playing in numerous ways. But there is probably a limit to making him check his ego. I think the smartest plan if you can talk him into staying and paying enough for that is to give him the respect of starting and just balance his time out with someone like Tyus. Do not fall into the trap of needing him for 35 plus minutes. One way to get the player you wanted that is between the two of them is to use the two of them almost equally. Go by the matchup and give that person the higher usage that game if need be.

Couldn't hurt to then develop a young PG behind these two from say maybe the draft. Don't fall into the trap of playing a young hopeful draft pick too much though. Let the youngest PG learn behind these two and just be around if an injury should demand more use of him.

All this is mute however if Rose is just waiting to get off this team now. We'll never know because he's been acting like a professional since he got here. I'm also not going to lose it no matter what they choose to do with Tyus/Rose/Teague. I think they are all good enough to stay as long as the team doesn't use dollar amounts to decide who plays when.

[Killboard]

I'll agree with much of that as well. I do think Rose showed a vast improvement in 3 pt and distance shooting that nobody expected. He's also shown a lot more defensive skills this year than some here are giving him credit for. He's a skillful player who had his ego bell rung pretty hard and was physically tested. He seems more open and to understand there is more than one way to serve the team and when asked, is capable of playing in numerous ways. But there is probably a limit to making him check his ego. I think the smartest plan if you can talk him into staying and paying enough for that is to give him the respect of starting and just balance his time out with someone like Tyus. Do not fall into the trap of needing him for 35 plus minutes. One way to get the player you wanted that is between the two of them is to use the two of them almost equally. Go by the matchup and give that person the higher usage that game if need be.

Couldn't hurt to then develop a young PG behind these two from say maybe the draft. Don't fall into the trap of playing a young hopeful draft pick too much though. Let the youngest PG learn behind these two and just be around if an injury should demand more use of him.

All this is mute however if Rose is just waiting to get off this team now. We'll never know because he's been acting like a professional since he got here. I'm also not going to lose it no matter what they choose to do with Tyus/Rose/Teague. I think they are all good enough to stay as long as the team doesn't use dollar amounts to decide who plays when.

116 DRTG according to BKREF (worst among rotation players in the roster)
-2.6 DBPM (worst among rotation players in the roster)
-2.69 DRPM (93th PG in the league in DRPM)
-2.3 D PIPM (only ahead of 3 rookie PG's)

So, no, any one who consider Rose a big liability on defense is on point.

[wolfen]

I'll agree with much of that as well. I do think Rose showed a vast improvement in 3 pt and distance shooting that nobody expected. He's also shown a lot more defensive skills this year than some here are giving him credit for. He's a skillful player who had his ego bell rung pretty hard and was physically tested. He seems more open and to understand there is more than one way to serve the team and when asked, is capable of playing in numerous ways. But there is probably a limit to making him check his ego. I think the smartest plan if you can talk him into staying and paying enough for that is to give him the respect of starting and just balance his time out with someone like Tyus. Do not fall into the trap of needing him for 35 plus minutes. One way to get the player you wanted that is between the two of them is to use the two of them almost equally. Go by the matchup and give that person the higher usage that game if need be.

Couldn't hurt to then develop a young PG behind these two from say maybe the draft. Don't fall into the trap of playing a young hopeful draft pick too much though. Let the youngest PG learn behind these two and just be around if an injury should demand more use of him.

All this is mute however if Rose is just waiting to get off this team now. We'll never know because he's been acting like a professional since he got here. I'm also not going to lose it no matter what they choose to do with Tyus/Rose/Teague. I think they are all good enough to stay as long as the team doesn't use dollar amounts to decide who plays when.

116 DRTG according to BKREF (worst among rotation players in the roster)
-2.6 DBPM (worst among rotation players in the roster)
-2.69 DRPM (93th PG in the league in DRPM)
-2.3 D PIPM (only ahead of 3 rookie PG's)

So, no, any one who consider Rose a big liability on defense is on point.

Man stop trying to depress the entire board

I do like Jeddz point about IF we brought back Rose and decided to start him (this would require a Teague opt out), you would use him in a minutes restriction, keep those minutes down, and have someone on staff to keep strict tabs on that. Somehow I think Wiggins would begin to pout if Rose was the full time starter, certainly his shot attempts would decrease. Maybe that would be a good thing?

[wolfen]

I don't know man... I think I gotta add Ashton Hagans to my list of PG's to keep a keen eye on the rest of the year. He's the best defender and toughest PG who could come out for the draft. He excels in the open floor, but also he's CONTANTLY pushing the ball and penetrating to break down the defense. Very good at finishing those drives but also uses them to set up others as well - the anti-Teague if you will. There is no question with the strength, size (6-3 200), weight, and quickness that he'll be a very good defender in the nba, which is half of the battle. He doesn't make wild turnovers, he's hounding PG's constantly. He's got the ability to stop and start, play at different speeds to get his man off balance and make something happen, his handles are above average. He flat out doesn't shoot many 3's, he's only taken 13 at this point in the season. They say free throw percentage is an identifier to future 3 point shooting, Hagans shoots 81%, so there's that, and he's got nice form. Plus he shoots it at a decent rate overall - 48%.

We've seen in the past that several UK players have to "hide" some parts of their games to fit into the big blue machine. A hard-nosed, team-first, gritty PG who can get into the lane and wreak havoc is something we just don't have on the wolves. Hagans could be a great pick this summer even if he didn't see the floor much in year 1 with Tyus and Teague likely back. If this kid can shoot even 30% from 3 on a low volume, but provide all of the other great stuff, man that would be huge. And who knows, he may be able to shoot from deep better than we all think. The combine will be VERY interesting for him to see how that shot looks.

Thoughts on Hagans?

[SmokeyPaw]

I don't know man... I think I gotta add Ashton Hagans to my list of PG's to keep a keen eye on the rest of the year. He's the best defender and toughest PG who could come out for the draft. He excels in the open floor, but also he's CONTANTLY pushing the ball and penetrating to break down the defense. Very good at finishing those drives but also uses them to set up others as well - the anti-Teague if you will. There is no question with the strength, size (6-3 200), weight, and quickness that he'll be a very good defender in the nba, which is half of the battle. He doesn't make wild turnovers, he's hounding PG's constantly. He's got the ability to stop and start, play at different speeds to get his man off balance and make something happen, his handles are above average. He flat out doesn't shoot many 3's, he's only taken 13 at this point in the season. They say free throw percentage is an identifier to future 3 point shooting, Hagans shoots 81%, so there's that, and he's got nice form. Plus he shoots it at a decent rate overall - 48%.

We've seen in the past that several UK players have to "hide" some parts of their games to fit into the big blue machine. A hard-nosed, team-first, gritty PG who can get into the lane and wreak havoc is something we just don't have on the wolves. Hagans could be a great pick this summer even if he didn't see the floor much in year 1 with Tyus and Teague likely back. If this kid can shoot even 30% from 3 on a low volume, but provide all of the other great stuff, man that would be huge. And who knows, he may be able to shoot from deep better than we all think. The combine will be VERY interesting for him to see how that shot looks.

Thoughts on Hagans?

Havent watched him yet and havent seen him listed on most draft lists. NBC sports, however, just listed him at 20 on their board https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/01/17/2019-nba-mock-draft-2-0-zion-williamson-remains-no-1-duke-goes-1-2-3/amp/. So maybe you're on to something.

[Klomp]

How much is unlocking KAT worth?

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25788854/john-calipari-says-derrick-rose-helped-karl-anthony-towns-move-jimmy-butler

[wolfen]

I don't know man... I think I gotta add Ashton Hagans to my list of PG's to keep a keen eye on the rest of the year. He's the best defender and toughest PG who could come out for the draft. He excels in the open floor, but also he's CONTANTLY pushing the ball and penetrating to break down the defense. Very good at finishing those drives but also uses them to set up others as well - the anti-Teague if you will. There is no question with the strength, size (6-3 200), weight, and quickness that he'll be a very good defender in the nba, which is half of the battle. He doesn't make wild turnovers, he's hounding PG's constantly. He's got the ability to stop and start, play at different speeds to get his man off balance and make something happen, his handles are above average. He flat out doesn't shoot many 3's, he's only taken 13 at this point in the season. They say free throw percentage is an identifier to future 3 point shooting, Hagans shoots 81%, so there's that, and he's got nice form. Plus he shoots it at a decent rate overall - 48%.

We've seen in the past that several UK players have to "hide" some parts of their games to fit into the big blue machine. A hard-nosed, team-first, gritty PG who can get into the lane and wreak havoc is something we just don't have on the wolves. Hagans could be a great pick this summer even if he didn't see the floor much in year 1 with Tyus and Teague likely back. If this kid can shoot even 30% from 3 on a low volume, but provide all of the other great stuff, man that would be huge. And who knows, he may be able to shoot from deep better than we all think. The combine will be VERY interesting for him to see how that shot looks.

Thoughts on Hagans?

Havent watched him yet and havent seen him listed on most draft lists. NBC sports, however, just listed him at 20 on their board https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/01/17/2019-nba-mock-draft-2-0-zion-williamson-remains-no-1-duke-goes-1-2-3/amp/. So maybe you're on to something.

He's definitely getting some buzz... https://247sports.com/college/kentucky/Article/Kentucky-basketball-John-Calipari-says-Ashton-Hagans-on-his-way-to-becoming-a-lottery-pick-128006490/

[wolfen]

So Garland is declaring, nice. Givony has him as a top 7 pick but you'd think he wouldn't go that high with his injury - although that shouldn't make a difference. Let's not forget, this is the best PG prospect among the freshmen class (albeit an average one at best). Go back and watch the DX video and you'll see the potential for dynamic starting PG. Are there chinks in the armor? Possibly, but the potential is tantalizing...

Watch on YouTube

[Killboard]

[vagelis]

If this is true we will have 5 pgs and this means a trade is coming up

Read on Twitter

[Domejandro]

Criminally underrated.

[King Malta]

If this is true we will have 5 pgs and this means a trade is coming up

Read on Twitter

it's a 10 day contract

[ZenMan]

Responded to. -Dome

[King Malta]

Look who's back

[minimus]

If this is true we will have 5 pgs and this means a trade is coming up

Read on Twitter

it's a 10 day contract

Maybe he can be developed into our version of Fred VanVleet?

P.S. Jrue Holiday has finished game against HOU with 6 blocks, he destroyed Harden shooting rhythm. What a defender!

[Killboard]

Tyus projected to be worth 190M over the next 5 seasons.


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tyus-jones

I really like Tyus and this is probably overrating him by a good margin, but I dont have any doubts he will overplay his next contract

[shrink]

Tyus projected to be worth 190M over the next 5 seasons.


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tyus-jones

I really like Tyus and this is probably overrating him by a good margin, but I dont have any doubts he will overplay his next contract

Awesome Killboard! Thanks for posting that!

[shrink]

If this is true we will have 5 pgs and this means a trade is coming up

Read on Twitter

it's a 10 day contract

Maybe he can be developed into our version of Fred VanVleet?

Canaan was released from his last team, and deservedly so. In 13 minutes, in his first game, he was -17, and Bayless had to play 43 minutes. With Rose back in his second game, he played 4 minutes, and went 0-3.

I think he will be gone when his 10-day contract is up.

[Jedzz]

Tyus projected to be worth 190M over the next 5 seasons.


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tyus-jones

I really like Tyus and this is probably overrating him by a good margin, but I dont have any doubts he will overplay his next contract

Awesome Killboard! Thanks for posting that!

I love that they named it the CARMELO Projections. Aside from that, I have a hard time believing much in this stuff about him. The probability of chance variation alone, on this team, I just can't. But in Wins Above Replacement Projection it's showing a drop off from him next season, before a claim that he takes off in 2020 to heights never before reached. Then it has him peaking there for 3 years and falling off below replacement level again by 2023.

If his play drops off any further next season, he's probably out of the NBA according to most teams. Maybe not if we sign him to a long term deal, but would any other team put up with less than where he is at right now? I know a few people love to point to his steal to turnover ratio or whatever, but I'm sorry that's just not enough of a game to compete with.

He can't be relied upon to shoot or block. His assists aren't off the charts hinting at anything great to me. I realize his usage has been low and maybe if he starts with consistent high minutes he reaches another level. But I just don't believe any of it will be enough unless he can learn to shoot a basketball at respectable consistency. No one will respect him enough to keep playing him high minutes.

I think this 538 crew are as bright as they come, and yet I think they have a problem sometimes relating numbers to a human factor. We humans absolutely do weight some types of production numbers over others. His opponents won't respect him enough to defend him judiciously because of that shot problem. That will hurt his teams overall. I just don't see it until he proves otherwise because I believe he's had enough chances to show us and he hasn't. He doesn't have to put up 20 pts. But he does have to show he's a threat if left alone. He has not. Loved the display of data at that site. Magicians.