WWE SmackDown Discussion II

Moderators: Marcus, Stanford

User avatar
LLJ
RealGM
Posts: 53,977
And1: 18,235
Joined: Jul 10, 2003
Location: Unfixed

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#841 » by LLJ » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:51 pm

improper wrote:
I mean, what has anyone seen from Nakamura since coming to the main roster that makes him deserving of a big push? He hasn't had a single match that has been better than good. Beyond that, they had a chance to put the main title on him last year at 'Mania, and several times after that. Like with most guys, if you keep putting them in big matches and then have them lose, the fans stop caring. We've seen this happen to dozens of guys, including Rusev (who did manage to come back and get himself over again, but it took him years after Cena buried him).


I'd said for a while that the WWE doesn't seem to care about workrate going by some of their baffling pushes...but maybe they do? I guess especially with Nakamura since he's foreign--he's not there for his promos after all, so he basically has to deliver in the ring if he wants that push. Seeing Asuka get that rocket strapped onto her again is even more stark considering her english is noticeably worse than Nakamura's but has a very good rep when it comes to match quality.
improper
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,521
And1: 4,405
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#842 » by improper » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:02 pm

LLJ wrote:I'd said for a while that the WWE doesn't seem to care about workrate going by some of their baffling pushes...but maybe they do? I guess especially with Nakamura since he's foreign--he's not there for his promos after all, so he basically has to deliver in the ring if he wants that push. Seeing Asuka get that rocket strapped onto her again is even more stark considering her english is noticeably worse than Nakamura's but has a very good rep when it comes to match quality.


The thing is, Nakamura kind of cooled himself off during NXT. He had that amazing first match with Zayn and then...not much else worth writing home about. He had a bunch of perfectly fine matches as champ, but perfectly fine isn't going to get you noticed in NXT when there's at least one five star match at every Takeover. By the time he got the main roster, people were already questioning if we were ever going to see the Nakamura that faced Sami Zayn again. And the answer was no. When you couple that with the fact that the crowd didn't really care, that's a recipe to get your push stopped.

I do think that, if they had had him go over Styles after turning heel, they might have had a chance to salvage him. But at this point, he's a loser. He's got that WWE sh*t booking stink on him and it's not going away any time soon.

Asuka's a different beast. When does Asuka ever loaf in matches? I feel like she's always going out there and working as hard as she possibly can to get herself over with the crowd. I've talked about this before, but I think one of the main things the main roster is lacking that NXT has in abundance is passion from the performers. Passion is contagious. When you think that the wrestler gives a sh*t, it makes you want to as well. That's why Becky got herself so over. Because she finally snapped and showed some f*cking passion, and the fans latched on because we see so many other guys and girls on the main roster just going through the motions. I also think that's why the women are the hottest thing going there right now. They are trying to earn their spot and cement themselves as main event worthy, whereas the men have been booked into oblivion for so long with so little hope for change that they just go out there, put on a decent performance, and cash their checks.
User avatar
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 53,636
And1: 18,892
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#843 » by Stanford » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:17 pm

improper wrote:The thing is, Nakamura kind of cooled himself off during NXT. He had that amazing first match with Zayn and then...not much else worth writing home about.


Exactly. Workrate is not a word I would use in reference to Shinsuke Nakamura. (It's also not a word I would use in any circumstance, but especially not in this one.)
improper
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,521
And1: 4,405
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#844 » by improper » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:23 pm

Stanford wrote:Exactly. Workrate is not a word I would use in reference to Shinsuke Nakamura. (It's also not a word I would use in any circumstance, but especially not in this one.)


I do think Nakamura tends to be one of those guys who prefers a long match with a slower build. The problem is, on the main roster, he pretty much never got the time to work that type of match, which inevitably meant that his matches tended to end right as they were picking up.

But that's why I tend to not blame these guys when they start coasting. Because we've seen guys go out and bust their asses and never get pushed even though they're wildly over. Just look at Owens. He entered the main roster on an absolute tear, with that MOTY candidate with Cena as his first match and a few other great matches with Cena as well, along with another MOTY candidate during his feud with Zayn and a few other great matches as well. But after a while, you could just kind of see the passion draining out of him. It sucks, but I don't blame him.
User avatar
heatwillbeback
RealGM
Posts: 18,819
And1: 13,878
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#845 » by heatwillbeback » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:30 pm

LLJ wrote:
heatwillbeback wrote:So I’ve been thinking about who is going to face Bryan at WM. There isn’t an obvious option. I don’t think it will be AJ and Ali is too soon. Jeff Hardy and Orton, no way. I don’t think it will be Joe, because the last thing you do with a heel as good as Bryan is to go with a heel/heel match.

I think Cena may be the guy here, and Bryan will go over him. Story is easy- involve the Bellas!


I think Cena is working a program with Drew, personally.

Smackdown's lack of depth and long term booking biting them in the ass with both their champions. Daniel Bryan is doing great as the heel champ but every viable face is either a solid midcarder or doing something else (AJ v Orton at Wrestlemania seems likely). Asuka is basically an absolute MONSTER again, but everyone else outside of Charlotte and Becky are complete geeks, not credible opponents at all, and Charlotte and Becky are obviously going for Ronda (well, not officially obvious with Charlotte yet but you already see them halfway there)

They need some sort of shakeup in the worst way, or to find a gimmick in the next 2 PPVs to move some RAW people over to challenge the champs.


I agree about the lack of depth. It’s maddening considering how talented the roster is. These guys were just allowed to fizzle off and/or never reach the potential they had.

I would personally go Drew/Braun or Drew/Ziggler. I think Cena would be best for Bryan. Beating Cena still holds a ton of weight and would solidify what should be a long heel championship run.
User avatar
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 53,636
And1: 18,892
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#846 » by Stanford » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:36 pm

Great discussion. It seems like they spent so much time on AJ as the top babyface, the rest of the babyface roster got left behind. Most of the options for a heel champ are, as you guys have already mentioned, not quite ready (Ali), underwhelming (Orton, Hardy) or heel (Andrade, Joe).

It's possible, I suppose, that the plan is to take the title off Bryan before Mania, but I can't imagine that after making a damn hemp title belt for him. Are we ruling out Rollins as an option? There's plenty of time to get him involved post Chamber.

Who are the dark horses? One of the New Day? The Miz?
improper
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,521
And1: 4,405
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#847 » by improper » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:47 pm

It won't happen, but Gargano versus Bryan with twenty minutes and no other restrictions would be incredible. But then again, Gargano puts on a five star match with pretty much everyone at this point.
User avatar
heatwillbeback
RealGM
Posts: 18,819
And1: 13,878
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#848 » by heatwillbeback » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:19 pm

Stanford wrote:Great discussion. It seems like they spent so much time on AJ as the top babyface, the rest of the babyface roster got left behind. Most of the options for a heel champ are, as you guys have already mentioned, not quite ready (Ali), underwhelming (Orton, Hardy) or heel (Andrade, Joe).

It's possible, I suppose, that the plan is to take the title off Bryan before Mania, but I can't imagine that after making a damn hemp title belt for him. Are we ruling out Rollins as an option? There's plenty of time to get him involved post Chamber.

Who are the dark horses? One of the New Day? The Miz?


Miz would be good but he seems set to do something with Shane.

If a raw guy is possible I would love Balor coming over to face Bryan. That’s a dream matchup. Not sure how they would make it work story wise though.
User avatar
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 53,636
And1: 18,892
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#849 » by Stanford » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:35 pm

improper wrote:It won't happen, but Gargano versus Bryan with twenty minutes and no other restrictions would be incredible. But then again, Gargano puts on a five star match with pretty much everyone at this point.


Wait until he gets to the main roster :wink:
Spens1
RealGM
Posts: 13,865
And1: 3,879
Joined: Jun 16, 2015
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#850 » by Spens1 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:05 pm

LLJ wrote:Nakamura losing to R-Truth isn't the burial. He wasn't supposed to get the US title back, he was used as a plot device to get Lana off the RR. But putting him in the tag team with Rusev may well be the actual burial.

I don't know what's wrong here. Maybe it's Nakamura's performances in big matches not up to snuff, or whatever, but it seems like they are giving up on him being a singles draw for now.


Lost in 3 minutes to a jobber, that is a burial.

Don't get me wrong, Nakamura is coasting, but he's still worth far more than R-Truth is at this stage.
improper
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,521
And1: 4,405
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#851 » by improper » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:12 pm

Yeah, R-Truth is a comedy act jobber. He's great in that role, and I think the show benefits from his occasional presence (he always comes up with creative ways to get laughs), but he's definitely a low-level guy who never wins anything of importance.

Also, if they were going to give Truth a belt, a far better thing to do would have been for him to find the belt that Bryan threw in the trash and claim he was WWE champion. Could even give him a mini-angle with Bryan.
loserX
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 45,496
And1: 26,048
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
       

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#852 » by loserX » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:49 pm

heatwillbeback wrote:If a raw guy is possible I would love Balor coming over to face Bryan. That’s a dream matchup. Not sure how they would make it work story wise though.


Demon vs. Vegan? :D
improper
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,521
And1: 4,405
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#853 » by improper » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:34 am

loserX wrote:
heatwillbeback wrote:If a raw guy is possible I would love Balor coming over to face Bryan. That’s a dream matchup. Not sure how they would make it work story wise though.


Demon vs. Vegan? :D


Finn does come to the ring in a leather jacket...
User avatar
tugs
RealGM
Posts: 16,916
And1: 3,003
Joined: Jul 22, 2010

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#854 » by tugs » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:41 am

heatwillbeback wrote:So I’ve been thinking about who is going to face Bryan at WM. There isn’t an obvious option. I don’t think it will be AJ and Ali is too soon. Jeff Hardy and Orton, no way. I don’t think it will be Joe, because the last thing you do with a heel as good as Bryan is to go with a heel/heel match.

I think Cena may be the guy here, and Bryan will go over him. Story is easy- involve the Bellas!
"That's... That's gotta be Kane!"
jakecronus8
RealGM
Posts: 16,778
And1: 8,185
Joined: Feb 06, 2006
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#855 » by jakecronus8 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:00 am

tugs wrote:
heatwillbeback wrote:So I’ve been thinking about who is going to face Bryan at WM. There isn’t an obvious option. I don’t think it will be AJ and Ali is too soon. Jeff Hardy and Orton, no way. I don’t think it will be Joe, because the last thing you do with a heel as good as Bryan is to go with a heel/heel match.

I think Cena may be the guy here, and Bryan will go over him. Story is easy- involve the Bellas!
"That's... That's gotta be Kane!"


Not particularly relevant but that reminds me of my favorite Botchamania ending.

Do it for Chuck
jakecronus8
RealGM
Posts: 16,778
And1: 8,185
Joined: Feb 06, 2006
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#856 » by jakecronus8 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:56 am

That Bryan belt is so sweet, but I imagine that whoever takes the title off him at Mania will trash it and debut a new blue monstrosity akin to the red monstrosity on RAW.
Do it for Chuck
User avatar
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 53,636
And1: 18,892
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#857 » by Stanford » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:06 am

One thing I noticed:

Bryan is doing "NO!" again. I suspect that the office (or Bryan himself) felt that he was being too straight forward and not cartoony enough. I understand where they're coming from. You can risk losing an audience if don't break up a monologue with some direct crowd engagement, and "NO!" is hilarious and something he has in his pocket that he's good at. I just worry that it' going to prompt YES! chants and they'll end up recycling old bits. I trust Bryan but I don't trust the writers at all.
Spens1
RealGM
Posts: 13,865
And1: 3,879
Joined: Jun 16, 2015
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#858 » by Spens1 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:18 am

Stanford wrote:One thing I noticed:

Bryan is doing "NO!" again. I suspect that the office (or Bryan himself) felt that he was being too straight forward and not cartoony enough. I understand where they're coming from. You can risk losing an audience if don't break up a monologue with some direct crowd engagement, and "NO!" is hilarious and something he has in his pocket that he's good at. I just worry that it' going to prompt YES! chants and they'll end up recycling old bits. I trust Bryan but I don't trust the writers at all.


Bryan will do what he wants so i'm not worried about terrible bookers and writers ruining it because he'll do his own thing anyway.

What are they going to do, fire him? He's in the position anyway where the company needs him far more than he needs the company, so he'll have complete free reign pretty much.
User avatar
iMoreland
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,481
And1: 2,968
Joined: Jan 23, 2014
   

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#859 » by iMoreland » Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:29 pm

I hope they do a multi man match for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania. The one on ones they've been doing have all been stinkers.

• Daniel Bryan (c) vs. AJ Styles vs. Randy Orton
• Daniel Bryan (c) vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe
• Daniel Bryan (c) vs. Andrade Almas vs. Rey Mysterio

How's does one of those sound?
improper
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,521
And1: 4,405
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: WWE SmackDown Discussion II 

Post#860 » by improper » Sat Feb 2, 2019 9:23 pm

iMoreland wrote:I hope they do a multi man match for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania. The one on ones they've been doing have all been stinkers.

• Daniel Bryan (c) vs. AJ Styles vs. Randy Orton
• Daniel Bryan (c) vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe
• Daniel Bryan (c) vs. Andrade Almas vs. Rey Mysterio

How's does one of those sound?


The first two sound bad. AJ Styles needs to be out of the title picture for a while, Randy Orton does absolutely nothing for me, and we've seen Joe contend and fail so many times and his ceiling is a four star match at this point.

Give me the third one if anything.

Return to Pro Wrestling