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What if Zion Williamson...

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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#61 » by EazyRoc » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:22 pm

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
Hazer wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:I’d be highly upset if Cleveland ended up with another #1 pick.

Better go ahead and brace yourself, it’s gonna happen.


Our odds for the #1 will be very similar to the Cavs. There is no commercial reason for the NBA to compromise its system to favor the Cavs (Cleveland is not New York). Time will tell.

The Cavaliers are a huge portion of their economy ? Nothing else in Cleveland ? Adam Silver is secretly from Cleveland ?

I don’t know either, but god damnit it’s got to be one in a trillion odds to get the 3 or 4 #1 picks they’ve had in the last 15 years.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#62 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:45 pm

Cleveland has a secret weapon when it comes to accumulating #1 picks:

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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#63 » by azuresou1 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:39 pm

I'm chipping in late and I know some of these posts are from a month ago so there wasn't the benefit of seeing more games... but y'all trippin if you don't think Zion Williamson is going to be special in the pros.

I had a lot of doubt about him going into college because much of his high school tape was dunking on 5'7 white kids, but this kid legitimately has it.

He is without question the best athlete since LeBron, in the complete sense of the word. He obviously has explosiveness and power, but he also has fluidity and grace and coordination, wrapped up in a 285lb frame. John Collins runs the floor like a gazelle; Zion Williamson runs the floor like a bull rampaging through a crowd of toddlers.

But it's not just about athleticism. He also happens to have EXCEPTIONAL handles for his size, both in transition and in the half court. They are not flashy guard handles, but they are smooth and controlled and get him to where he needs to go.

Once he gets inside, he can finish - not just with powerful dunks, but also with finesse. His body control in the air is great.

He's also a very underrated playmaker. He can read a defense and find cutters and shooters.

But he doesn't just use his athleticism on offense - he's a premier defender too. In the post he's like a cinder block due to his weight and leverage; on rotations, he has great footspeed and agility to come out onto wings. He has great anticipation and timing, leading to elite block and steal numbers.

His only real flaw is his jumper.

Basically, I see him as a hybrid of Barkley and LeBron sans the god-tier passing. How high do you take a guy like that?
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#64 » by Hazer » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:06 pm

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
Hazer wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:I’d be highly upset if Cleveland ended up with another #1 pick.

Better go ahead and brace yourself, it’s gonna happen.


Our odds for the #1 will be very similar to the Cavs. There is no commercial reason for the NBA to compromise its system to favor the Cavs (Cleveland is not New York). Time will tell.

I’m aware of the new more equitable lottery odds.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#65 » by EazyRoc » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:57 pm

azuresou1 wrote:I'm chipping in late and I know some of these posts are from a month ago so there wasn't the benefit of seeing more games... but y'all trippin if you don't think Zion Williamson is going to be special in the pros.

I had a lot of doubt about him going into college because much of his high school tape was dunking on 5'7 white kids, but this kid legitimately has it.

He is without question the best athlete since LeBron, in the complete sense of the word. He obviously has explosiveness and power, but he also has fluidity and grace and coordination, wrapped up in a 285lb frame. John Collins runs the floor like a gazelle; Zion Williamson runs the floor like a bull rampaging through a crowd of toddlers.

But it's not just about athleticism. He also happens to have EXCEPTIONAL handles for his size, both in transition and in the half court. They are not flashy guard handles, but they are smooth and controlled and get him to where he needs to go.

Once he gets inside, he can finish - not just with powerful dunks, but also with finesse. His body control in the air is great.

He's also a very underrated playmaker. He can read a defense and find cutters and shooters.

But he doesn't just use his athleticism on offense - he's a premier defender too. In the post he's like a cinder block due to his weight and leverage; on rotations, he has great footspeed and agility to come out onto wings. He has great anticipation and timing, leading to elite block and steal numbers.

His only real flaw is his jumper.

Basically, I see him as a hybrid of Barkley and LeBron sans the god-tier passing. How high do you take a guy like that?

This. Anything other than picking at his jump shot is likely nit picky. Like how he never finishes with his off hand.

I had the same questions prior to the season watching him dominate high schoolers and Canadians. I stfu after that Kentucky game. He’s the best prospect I’ve seen since LeBron. IMO, if dude was 6’9 instead of 6’7”, he’d probably be a better prospect.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#66 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:36 pm

Trae Young asked to give advice to Zion Williamson

Atlanta Hawks guard Trae Young knows a little bit about what Duke star Zion Williamson is going through.

After joining Oklahoma as a five-star player in the 247Sports Composite, Young lit up college basketball early in the season, leading to tremendous (and possibly over) exposure in the media. SportsCenter led with Young highlight packages. Even games Young didn’t play in included trackers of his recent performances. And that led to plenty of criticism when things didn’t go right as Young was slammed not just for his mistakes, but for media fatigue.

With that in mind, Stadium’s Jeff Goodman, in an interview with the first-year NBA point guard, asked Young if he had any advice for this year’s brightest star in college basketball.

“I think Zion’s handled it perfectly,” Young said. “I mean, he had a lot more hype coming into college than I did. Mine started happening in college so it’s a little bit different. But at the same time, it’s a lot of similarities. I think Zion’s handling it perfect."

Williamson’s dramatic dunks and gravity-defying blocks generated millions of YouTube hits before he even made a college choice. And choosing to play in the fishbowl that is Duke basketball meant he had attention from Day One.

But at the center of it all has been Williamson’s (and Duke’s) success. Williamson is averaging 21.7 points, 9.3 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 2.0 steals and 1.8 blocks, all while playing less time — 27.8 minutes per game — than most other stars.

And Young is right: Williamson has handled all the fanfare by being extremely likable and continuing to produce. And that’s the perfect way to handle it.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#67 » by Atlanta Hawk Fan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:41 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Cleveland has a secret weapon when it comes to accumulating #1 picks:

Spoiler:
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But now the Hawks have:

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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#68 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:06 am

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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#69 » by atlantabbq99 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:21 am

Collins is crushing it at PF for now, so that means Zion will have to start as SF, but the Hawks can go with a small ball line up for large stretches for 20-25min a game with Collins at Center and Zi at PF.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#70 » by Atlanta Hawk Fan » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:20 pm

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They are using some super small sample sizes to draw conclusions right now.

However, he hasn't had difficulty scoring from back-to-the-basket positions, having converted 13 of 18 attempts.


You cite this number and start talking about points per possession in the post but 18 attempts is a meaningless sample size for this purpose. If he was shooting in the post 5 times a game (not a large number), we would be talking about 100 attempts not 18. When he is attacking in back-to-the-basket situations less than 1 time per game, it is fair to say you are cherry-picking the favorable matchups / situations where he is of course going to have great numbers. This isn't a negative for his production but pretending that it is a meaningful comparison to guys who were efficient in high volumes is silly. :nonono:

The iso / ballhandling comparison is more apples to apples in showing that he is a different style of player from the big men that he is being compared to and that he has been very successful in those situations. The question then becomes more of how he will fare with stronger, larger, quicker defenders in the NBA where he doesn't hold the same degree of physical advantages that he does today. This becomes even more important when looking at his suspect jumper. Some strange notions on his jump shooting in the article where they note he has shot significantly worse on jumpers than other bigs like Davis, Embiid, Simmons, Griffin, etc. but draws the conclusion that it is positive because "he is making more jumpers" (i.e., he has taken a larger volume of shot attempts). Given inability or unwillingness to operate in the post, it is not surprising that he has taken more attempts but I would say that shooting 50% on .5 jumpers per 40 is better than 28% on just under 1 jumper per 40 even if the volume if higher for the latter player. His mid 60% from the FT line is a red flag in this area. We've seen guys overcome this so not a deal breaker but you need to see a path for that development.

These two areas capture the biggest question about his game in a nutshell. If the guy isn't incline to post up and can't shoot a jumper, that leaves him largely driving to the basket in the half-court game and I expect he will be very effective doing that at the pro level and his ability to pass the ball will synergize very well with this. However, it is hard to see him sustaining the same level of efficiency and volume that he can put up doing that in college once he is matched up against better, stronger, larger athletes so he will have to start figuring out how to operate out the post or (more likely) develop that jumper to reach the potential that whoever drafts him #1 will need to see in him. Especially if you are making the case that he could be the best prospect in a decade.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#71 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:28 pm

Zion Williamson Could Be the Next Great NBA Point Center

He just needs a team to let him be one. Teams in position to land the no. 1 pick in the lottery in hopes of trading for Anthony Davis might want to read this first

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Zion Williamson is having a historic freshman season at Duke with one hand tied behind his back. He’s averaging 22.0 points on 68.1 percent shooting, 9.2 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 2.0 steals, and 2.0 blocks per game, and the most astonishing thing about his season thus far is that he could be doing even more. The Blue Devils don’t maximize his strengths.

His potential on a team built around him is off the charts, and he’ll instantly become the focal point of any NBA franchise that drafts him come June. Zion is the latest twist in a line of players that stretches from Ben Simmons to Giannis Antetokounmpo and LeBron James. All three have dabbled as point centers. Zion could be the first to do it full-time.

Zion is more than just his physical tools, though. He has the mind and the skill set to go with them. Defenders will sag off him and still can’t keep him from getting to the rim and finishing through traffic. He has the footwork and ballhandling ability to create separation off the dribble, the body control to absorb contact in the air, and the touch to score with either hand. He lives at the free throw line, averaging more than half as many free throw attempts per game (6.4) as field goal attempts (12.6). He is shooting 75.1 percent on 2-pointers on 10.7 attempts per game, which shouldn’t be possible for a player who creates so much of his own offense. The only thing holding him back is that he isn’t asked to create more.

Zion could handle a much larger diet of pick-and-rolls, isolations, and post-ups. His percentile rankings on those plays would probably go down in a larger sample size, but he’s exactly the type of player who would thrive with more offensive responsibility.

The biggest question for the NBA team that drafts him is how much to play him at center. There’s a reason the Warriors only moonlight with Draymond at the 5 in the regular season, and why the Bucks do the same with Giannis. Playing the position is an intense and physical grind, and they are trying to avoid wear and tear on the bodies of their best players.

The model should be what the Bucks do with Giannis. Milwaukee starts him at the 4, but he gets all the benefits of playing in a four-out offense because he plays with a stretch 5 in Brook Lopez.

Zion is the most can’t-miss prospect since Anthony Davis in 2012.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#72 » by ATL Boy » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:11 pm

I hope for his sake that he doesn't end up in Cleveland. He'll be burdened with unfair comparisons to maybe the greatest basketball player of all time right from the jump. Colin Sexton also doesn't look like the type of playmaking PG who will make his life easier on offense, either. He's still though, so time will tell on that one.

I'm sure Zion secretly wants to come to Atlanta to play alongside Trae and Collins. None of these other "bad" teams seem to be in the favorable position Atlanta's in atm, when taking everything into consideration (well, maybe Phoenix is, but playing in the West kind of handicaps them a bit).
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#73 » by Atlanta Hawk Fan » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:25 pm

ATL Boy wrote:I hope for his sake that he doesn't end up in Cleveland. He'll be burdened with unfair comparisons to maybe the greatest basketball player of all time right from the jump. Colin Sexton also doesn't look like the type of playmaking PG who will make his life easier on offense, either. He's still though, so time will tell on that one.

I'm sure Zion secretly wants to come to Atlanta to play alongside Trae and Collins. None of these other "bad" teams seem to be in the favorable position Atlanta's in atm, when taking everything into consideration (well, maybe Phoenix is, but playing in the West kind of handicaps them a bit).


Atlanta has a much better PG and a fellow big who won't clog the lane so I think we are a much better fit than Phoenix.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#74 » by EazyRoc » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:04 pm

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
ATL Boy wrote:I hope for his sake that he doesn't end up in Cleveland. He'll be burdened with unfair comparisons to maybe the greatest basketball player of all time right from the jump. Colin Sexton also doesn't look like the type of playmaking PG who will make his life easier on offense, either. He's still though, so time will tell on that one.

I'm sure Zion secretly wants to come to Atlanta to play alongside Trae and Collins. None of these other "bad" teams seem to be in the favorable position Atlanta's in atm, when taking everything into consideration (well, maybe Phoenix is, but playing in the West kind of handicaps them a bit).


Atlanta has a much better PG and a fellow big who won't clog the lane so I think we are a much better fit than Phoenix.
Phoenix next to Ayton is his ideal fit. Ayton has a perimeter game, but just hasn’t been showcasing it in the NBA. Don’t watch enough Suns games to know why though..
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#75 » by Atlanta Hawk Fan » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:21 pm

EazyRoc wrote:
Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
ATL Boy wrote:I hope for his sake that he doesn't end up in Cleveland. He'll be burdened with unfair comparisons to maybe the greatest basketball player of all time right from the jump. Colin Sexton also doesn't look like the type of playmaking PG who will make his life easier on offense, either. He's still though, so time will tell on that one.

I'm sure Zion secretly wants to come to Atlanta to play alongside Trae and Collins. None of these other "bad" teams seem to be in the favorable position Atlanta's in atm, when taking everything into consideration (well, maybe Phoenix is, but playing in the West kind of handicaps them a bit).


Atlanta has a much better PG and a fellow big who won't clog the lane so I think we are a much better fit than Phoenix.
Phoenix next to Ayton is his ideal fit. Ayton has a perimeter game, but just hasn’t been showcasing it in the NBA. Don’t watch enough Suns games to know why though..


Why is Phoenix a better fit? Collins has a perimeter game and Young has elite passing.

Devin Booker is running the point most of the time in Phoenix and both shoots first and is not close to as creative as far as playmaking.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#76 » by EazyRoc » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:36 pm

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:
Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
Atlanta has a much better PG and a fellow big who won't clog the lane so I think we are a much better fit than Phoenix.
Phoenix next to Ayton is his ideal fit. Ayton has a perimeter game, but just hasn’t been showcasing it in the NBA. Don’t watch enough Suns games to know why though..


Why is Phoenix a better fit? Collins has a perimeter game and Young has elite passing.

Devin Booker is running the point most of the time in Phoenix and both shoots first and is not close to as creative as far as playmaking.

In the short term, Zion will benefit next to a PG like Trae.

Long term, I think Zion and Ayton would be a legendary frontcourt combo. Ayton should develop into a guy that would perfectly compliment Zion. Offensive perimeter skills, rim protection ability, could screen for him, run some PnP. A lot of my statement was based off where I PROJECT Aytons career to go more than anything..
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#77 » by Atlanta Hawk Fan » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:48 pm

EazyRoc wrote:
Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
EazyRoc wrote:Phoenix next to Ayton is his ideal fit. Ayton has a perimeter game, but just hasn’t been showcasing it in the NBA. Don’t watch enough Suns games to know why though..


Why is Phoenix a better fit? Collins has a perimeter game and Young has elite passing.

Devin Booker is running the point most of the time in Phoenix and both shoots first and is not close to as creative as far as playmaking.

In the short term, Zion will benefit next to a PG like Trae.

Long term, I think Zion and Ayton would be a legendary frontcourt combo. Ayton should develop into a guy that would perfectly compliment Zion. Offensive perimeter skills, rim protection ability, could screen for him, run some PnP. A lot of my statement was based off where I PROJECT Aytons career to go more than anything..


Fair enough. I think Ayton will have the skill to shoot from the perimeter but will spend a lot of time near the basket for his career because he can do things around the basket that few players can do while lots of big men can shoot jumpers.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#78 » by peoriabird » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:54 pm

If we get the #1 pick this year, I hope Zion can play the 3 position. I don't like the thought of a Zion/Collins front court at all. Especially defensively!
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#79 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:57 pm

How Zion Williamson Fits with NBA's Worst Teams

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Atlanta Hawks

Current record: 18-38, 10.5 percent chance at No. 1

Projected 2019-20 cornerstones/lineup

Guards:
Trae Young

Wings: Kevin Huerter, Taurean Prince, DeAndre' Bembry

Bigs: Zion Williamson, John Collins, Omari Spellman


The Atlanta Hawks are already trending in the right direction, but a lucky lottery night could drastically change the team's ceiling over the coming years.

Between Young, Huerter and Collins, Atlanta's core is balanced with playmaking, shooting and inside scoring. Williamson's star potential could elevate it to another level.

Few opponents would be able to match up with the explosiveness of a Williamson-Collins duo up front. Collins' development as a shooter (35-of-99 from deep) also bodes well for their potential to play together, although Williamson is making strides himself, having hit a three in nine of Duke's last 13 games.

The most exciting aspect of a Williamson-to-Atlanta scenario would revolve around his fit with Young, who's tied for seventh in the league in assists and has the Hawks ranked No. 1 in pace. Williamson would benefit from an uptempo passing point guard like Young to set the table.

With Williamson still 18 and Young, Collins and Huerter each under 21, the Hawks would have a strong young nucleus. They also have the Dallas Mavericks' top-five-protected pick this year and plenty of future cap room once Kent Bazemore (2019-20 player option) and Miles Plumlee's contracts are up in the summer of 2020.
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Re: What if Zion Williamson... 

Post#80 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:20 pm

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