The case to trade Kawhi at the deadline and why we should be sellers

[Pet Poeltl]

I understand OP likes to play armchair GM but this discussion is completely pointless. Masai went all-in with the Kawhi acquisition and there's a 0% chance he dumps him at the deadline for picks and/or prospects like OP suggests we do. Like - it's even less than a 0% chance. It makes absolutely no sense especially considering we sit #4 overall in the NBA and have been #1 for the majority of the season. The East is wide open and I fully expect MU to make a few acquisitions in the next week or so before the trade deadline.

[Edumacated]

It all comes down to Lowry and to some extent JV being healthy for the playoffs and adding another reliable 3 pt shooter. These are achievable. If we trade Kawhi now, the organization will look scared and weak and lacking the fortitude to go through with a plan that was set at the beginning of the year. Masai is not trading Kawhi. He's going all in.

[rapswestofthe6]

**** dumbass knee jerk reaction, lol, the east is wide open and we have the playoff experience to win and make the NBA finals. First we have to be healthy, second we have to find the right lineup and shorten our bench. The playoff is all about overcoming pressure, we have players on this team that's been there and knows how to win. We not trading of selling anything this season, we commit Ed to see this thing till the end, whether Kawh is here next year is irrelevant, now stop with that bull, it's embarrassing.

You know what wouldn't be a dumbass knee jerk reaction?

When we lose our one year rental , lose in the second round or the eastern conference finals, and start a team that will fight for the 7th to 8th seed next year.

It's time to be realistic.

When it comes to the playoffs, are team really does not have the chemistry or integrity to win enough to persuade Kawhi.

Why not play both LA teams against each other, get the most assets we can from them, and commit to a real rebuild?

We do not have players, other then Kawhi and Danny Green, who have been there and know how to win. Our team was known as chokers, now we have chokers plus some of San Antonio. It just doesn't seem palatable.

Masi does not have a losers mentality. You can't see a path to the finals. Kawhi, lowry and Ibalka played terrible last night. It happens. The east is still wide open. I don't look at the bucs as an unbeatable team. JV has been out for 2 months. We still have the opportunity to add a piece, even if it's a small one to help the push.

Every team in the east have been chokers the last 8 years other than the one Lebron played on.

If we're going to get realistic. What do realistically expect to acquire for 2 months of Kawhi? We're not getting high draft picks. We're not going to get players who will be superstars. We still have Lowry next year.

What happens when Ibalka and Lowry's contracts expire and we have Spicy P to attract top free agents. I like spicy, but is Toronto going to be able to compete with New York, LA, Boston, Chicago..etc.

The best way for sustained success is to keep Kawhi, go to the finals convince him to stay and when the older core moves on you have Spicy P and Kawhi to attract a top free agent. The likelyhood of getting a top free agent with Kawhi is infinitely higher than without.

[Filmshot]

I find myself watching games and thinking... am I the only one who sees this. I've stated it before, we'll be lucky to survive the first round, and most assuredly we will make a hasty second round exit.

[flipside21]

we would have gotten a better return if we traded him in october... there is no point in trading him now.

Masai could still shake up the peices around kawhi and still have a shot at the finals. seems unlikely

No not really.

Lebrons years are going by extremely fast. Judging by this whole Rich Paul / Anthony Davis stunt, it looks like we can leverage the Lakers to send out the assets for us.

New Orleans isn't picking up LA's phone.

Why not give the Lakers a different path and say hey, we won't ask EVERYTHING that New Orleans would but give us 70% of what you would, and we're happy with that.

Hell a Kuzma/Ingram package would be amazing for Derozan

This is a VERY good point.

Kuzma / Ingram for DeRozan would have left us over the moon . . .

[StopitLeo]

THE POINT of this post is ; We have a chance of having a sustainable championship caliber team, if we leverage our assets this year

You are not a championship calibre team without an MVP calibre player. We currently have one and despite any deficiencies in the roster this is the best chance we have to make the Finals and obviously you can't win if you don't get there.

Kawhi is not going to return us assets that will markedly improve our chances of adding an MVP calibre player. The ways that a team acquires an MVP calibre player are 1) through the draft, 2) by free agency, and 3) by trade. The draft, whether a first overall pick or development of a lower pick that greatly exceeds expectations (which often seems to be the case), is by far the most frequent way to acquire an MVP calibre player of the three; however, it is hardly a common occurrence (there just aren't that many players of that calibre out there). Free agency is extremely rare unless you have superteam business happening (e.g., LeBron to Miami, KD to GSW), and trades are almost never heard of (e.g., Kawhi and Harden but Harden was not seen as an MVP level player at the time even by the GM who traded for him - Darryl Morey).

Given that the draft is the most likely way (but rarely successful) to find an MVP calibre player the only ways to increase you chances are by getting a higher pick and/or having more picks. Even with the first overall pick you are only getting an MVP calibre player around half the time and with lower picks it's largely luck since they almost never project to be MVP level players (KD at #2 doesn't count).

You'd be trading our current championship calibre team for picks that inherently have a low probability of turning into an MVP calibre player. How often have there been drafts with more than one MVP calibre player? There are some drafts with zero players that good.

I think the idea of trading Kawhi is ridiculous because the chances of any asset he returns becoming as good as him is very, very, low. We are better off trying to win this year, trying to acquire picks next year by moving vets and/or taking on bad contracts with 2 years left for picks), and trying to sign someone like Giannis in 2021.

[rapsdontlie]

It's a good thing to consider actually. I think it all comes down to whether this team is really up for a trip to the finals or not. I get the feeling that they're not up for it tbh. Lowry is treating this like a job (the passion's not there). I hate to admit it, but I agree with the OP about Kawhi having one foot out the door. He's putting up some great individual stats but he doesn't seem to have bought into the team. For the rest, maybe all the trade rumours are affecting them too.

But that's just from my perspective as a fan who watches them from my couch. I really get the feeling that they just don't want it that bad. And I believe that we have the talent to beat a team likes the Bucks in the playoffs (we just need to improve the bench is all). But unfortunately, I just don't see us beating them in a series if the passion isn't there.

[refshateRaps]

Agree. Masai can either grab another star and we make an attempt to win or we look for a big return from a team that wants to knock of GS.

Without help we are going nowhere and have the same ceiling we had with DD

[dacrusha]

Kawhi was brought in for a deep playoff run.

OP is worried after a late January loss.

Where was this thread after we destroyed the Bucks in Milwaukee the night after we took care of business in Indy?

I swear, after every **** loss, this place goes back into tank mode.

[CoachJReturns]

We need JV back and we need Masai to make some minor deals for the bench. Obviously go for AD if thats possible otherwise trade some of Delon, OG, Fred and CJ for a 4/5 and someone that is a consistent outside shooter. I'd say sign Matthews but waived players never come here.

If we're not able to make at least minor improvements to the bench it may not be as deep a playoff run as we hope for.

[J-Roc]

How about questioning if we'd even want to sign this version of Kawhi to a max deal. It might be that he is a ball hog because everyone else sucks. Maybe. But I'd like to see Nurse given the okay to actually coach Kawhi and play a game where he just drives and dishes instead of forcing. Just see what happens over 48min. Because the Kawhi we'd want for years and years would be a team leader not just a guy playing for himself.

[lebron stopper]

I'm sure some people will say you sound ridiculous but the Raptors are 17-12 since starting 20-4.

They've been mediocre for 2 months now.

If we go past the deadline without some sort of a shake up this team is doomed for another 2nd round flame out

Games 1 to 12



Games 1 to 24



Games 25 to 53



https://imgur.com/a/DODr2sG

[rapsdontlie]

Kawhi was brought in for a deep playoff run.

OP is worried after a late January loss.

Where was this thread after we destroyed the Bucks in Milwaukee the night after we took care of business in Indy?

I swear, after every **** loss, this place goes back into tank mode.

I get the point about this being a very knee-jerk type of thread. But I just wanted to mention that our win in Milwaukee feels much different than their win vs us last night.

That game we beat them, we were unusually hot from 3. Plus we played as good a defense as you can ask. But we still gave up 116pts and didn't win by that much. It was a really great win, but it also showed how tough it is to beat them. Even Buck fans weren't so concerned after that loss. They knew it would be hard for us to replicate that 3pt shooting night again.

Their win last night, however, we were just simply outmatched. The general feeling is that we will lose a playoff series against them if things don't change. So if we're thinking Finals or bust and we keep playing the way we are and/or can't get a good deal to help us beat a team like the Bucks, then I agree with the OP. Maybe we should consider blowing it up right now.

[Rapsfan07]

We need to pick a direction and **** commit to it.

Either trade Kawhi and hit the reset button now or trade for a second option and go all in.

This is my biggest qualm with this organization - takes far too long to make decisions and end up riding the fence for way too long.

[Mister Ze]

I’m actually against the notion of letting Kawhi walk for nothing , I think he can fetch reasonable long term assets even for half a season .

We can initiate a bidding war between Lakers and Clippers

[McFurious1]

Kawhi was brought in for a deep playoff run.

OP is worried after a late January loss.

Where was this thread after we destroyed the Bucks in Milwaukee the night after we took care of business in Indy?

I swear, after every **** loss, this place goes back into tank mode.

I think its pretty clear to some that we can't compete in a 7 game series with Boston or the Bucks let alone Golden State or Houston.

Seeing what the Knicks did I would have entertained the idea of Kawhi for KP.

Realistically, I think the smarter move would be abandon this whole Finals dream this year. Trade Kwahi to the Lakers seeing how New Orleans wont deal with them and get a package of Kuzma and/or Ingram even Ball (not really a fan) and get a 1st rounder back.

Build around Siakam and clear cap space for 2020. Having a collection of picks and prospects.

Look at Boston they have tons of picks, great young prospects. Bucks are clearly ahead of us currently. The Knicks will attract at least superstar this summer in my opinion. Otherwise they dont get rid of KP.

[rapswestofthe6]

I’m actually against the notion of letting Kawhi walk for nothing , I think he can fetch reasonable long term assets even for half a season .

We can initiate a bidding war between Lakers and Clippers

The idea that we can trade Kawhi and get anything that's going to give us a better chance to go to the finals one, two, three or four years from now is ridiculous. We can trade Kawhi and get players back that might give us a better chance at 6th place over the next few years.

I'd rather go to battle this year and try and go further in the post season than the team has ever gone before. If Kawhi walks in the off season so be it. The people who think we have zero shot at beating the Bucs, 76ers, Pacers, Celtics make me laugh.

[Raptorfan2012]

Unless the Clippers offer us a beautiful package that includes SGA and Harris, we aren't moving Kawhi.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Unless the Clippers offer us a beautiful package that includes SGA and Harris, we aren't moving Kawhi.

Harris is also expiring.

[Johnny Bball]

Anyone that thinks Kawhi Leonard is bad on defense is a moron.