Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[Ruzious]

Maybe I’m not evaluating the trade correctly, but Dallas gave up a promising young player in DSJR+multiple 1sts+ALOT of cap room in taking on Lee and Hardaway, all for a big guy that shoots 43% and averages 6 rebound shots per game coming off a torn ACL and due a contract extension????

It seems terrible on the surface and brilliant for NY.

They could have one of Zion\Morant+ multiple 1sts in 2021&2023, Dennis Smith Jr, Ntlikina, Mitchell Robinson, Trier, Knox and a ridiculous amount of cap space moving forward. I don’t love that core of young players, but they are doing it the right way.

I hadn't realized Dallas included 2 1sts - that is an awful lot to pay, and I'm not sure I would have done that.

[Ruzious]

Maybe I’m not evaluating the trade correctly, but Dallas gave up a promising young player in DSJR+multiple 1sts+ALOT of cap room in taking on Lee and Hardaway, all for a big guy that shoots 43% and averages 6 rebound shots per game coming off a torn ACL and due a contract extension????

That's a fair point.

I think Porzingis was a really exciting and promising player when he joined the league as a rookie. Back then, the idea of a 7-footer shooting so well was so unique. But in the past 2 years, it has suddenly become pretty mundane for 7-footers to step out and nail 3's to provide spacing for others. Is Porzingis such a unicorn when we've got guys like Brook Lopez, Marc Gasol, Jokic, Karl Anthony-Towns and Al Horford shooting 3's on a regular basis?

I've written any number of times that Porzingis has yet to show that he's any good at all. This is a ridiculous trade for Dallas -- although I don't know how promising Smith is. And I think it's one R1 pick not multiple. Am I wrong about that.

New York made out all the same. But... it's a terrible franchise -- they'll waste the pick.

As to Dallas, they think they've just acquired the next Dirk Nowitzki, obviously. They're wrong.

This is the perfect opportunity to show you the importance of environment. He's going from the very worst organization in the NBA to one of the better ones which has an outstanding coach. My feeling is that he has the potential to be a top 10 player in the NBA and can reach that potential in a good organization. But that's assuming he gets healthy and stays healthy.

[nate33]

Maybe I’m not evaluating the trade correctly, but Dallas gave up a promising young player in DSJR+multiple 1sts+ALOT of cap room in taking on Lee and Hardaway, all for a big guy that shoots 43% and averages 6 rebound shots per game coming off a torn ACL and due a contract extension????

It seems terrible on the surface and brilliant for NY.

They could have one of Zion\Morant+ multiple 1sts in 2021&2023, Dennis Smith Jr, Ntlikina, Mitchell Robinson, Trier, Knox and a ridiculous amount of cap space moving forward. I don’t love that core of young players, but they are doing it the right way.

I hadn't realized Dallas included 2 1sts - that is an awful lot to pay, and I'm not sure I would have done that.

From another article:

The Knicks will get the Mavericks' unprotected first-round pick two years after they send one to the Atlanta Hawks to complete their draft-day deal for Luka Doncic and another first-round pick that is protected two years after that, sources told Begley and Wojnarowski. Those picks could come as soon as 2021 and 2023 if Dallas does not move into the top five this year.

2021 and 2023 are a long way down the road. That 2021 pick is unprotected. What if Doncic gets hurt that year? Or maybe the West is just stacked like it usually is and Dallas misses the playoffs.

What's funny is I caught the Bill Simmons emergency podcast about the deal and they were all completely outraged at New York's incompetence in this deal. Nobody even had one thought or even a hypothetical that this might actually be a good deal for New York and a bad deal for Dallas.

The Knicks are likely to get someone pretty good with that second max salary slot they freed up in this trade. Even if it's not Durant or Kyrie, that second good player will probably be someone like Cousins. Would you rather have Porzingis or Cousins? I think it's kind of a wash. Even if you like Porzingis a bit more, would you rather have Porzingis plus Hardaway or Cousins plus Smith plus two 1st round picks?

[Eli Babak]

I hadn't realized Dallas included 2 1sts - that is an awful lot to pay, and I'm not sure I would have done that.

Yep, it's a risk. However, if Dallas gets a top-5 pick this year, then Knicks have to wait very long to get those picks (and the latter one is top-10 protected). I'm also pretty sure they convince Porzingis to stay so it's all about whether he is all-star-level player or not. Their fans surely are dreaming about winning the lottery and having the core of Doncic/Zion/Porzingis.

I guess Sacramento will trade Randolph + Koufos + 2nds for Jordan but Matthews will be bought out. But what will the Wizards do? I'm scared. It seems like Ted wants to keep that 1st round pick but he can't be dumb enough to pay tax for this team - yet they still want to make the playoffs. Ugh.

[nate33]

I hadn't realized Dallas included 2 1sts - that is an awful lot to pay, and I'm not sure I would have done that.

Yep, it's a risk. However, if Dallas gets a top-5 pick this year, then Knicks have to wait very long to get those picks (and the latter one is top-10 protected). I'm also pretty sure they convince Porzingis to stay so it's all about whether he is all-star-level player or not. Their fans surely are dreaming about winning the lottery and having the core of Doncic/Zion/Porzingis.

I guess Sacramento will trade Randolph + Koufos + 2nds for Jordan but Matthews will be bought out. But what will the Wizards do? I'm scared. It seems like Ted wants to keep that 1st round pick but he can't be dumb enough to pay tax for this team - yet they still want to make the playoffs. Ugh.

I think Dallas got better after the trade, in terms of actual, on-the-court play in present day.

Jordan is a stat-padding bum who doesn't even move on defense anymore. He just stands there and waits for rebounds. Replacing his minutes with Dwight Powell will help them. And Hardaway is better than DSJ at the moment as well. Trey Burke will probably thrive in Dallas as a SG in a PG's body (because Doncic will run the offense). And finally, there are rumors that Porzingis is actually pretty healthy and wants to play, but New York wouldn't let him because they're tanking. It'll be interesting to see if he suits up in Dallas.

There's no chance that Dallas can tank their way to a top 5 pick even if they tried. They're the 11th worst team right now and they have 7 more wins than the 5th place Hawks. The Hawks won't win 7 more games all year. I think Dallas accepts that they're not getting the pick and will instead try and win as much as they possibly can as a means of developing Doncic. If they're giving the pick to Atlanta anyway, make it the 13th pick and not the 6th.

[80sballboy]

I don’t think it’s a bad deal for the Knicks because KP is always going to be injury-prone. He can’t help being 7-3. Risky for Mavs. Seems like Cuban is pining for next Dirk and to have a squad without AAU guys. Maybe he’ll go after Otto

[gambitx777]

I wonder if they are going to try and stock assets by moving jordan and mathews. those two could help a contender hellp so could Kanter. mathews would look good in a kings jersey and they are making a push. Any team with some expirings would love to have jordan i am sure same with kanter. wish we could make that move.

Yes. I'm sure they'll look to move those guys for worse players (on expiring contracts) plus whatever 2nd round picks they can get. I'm not sure how much success they'll have. I think most teams will assume that those guys will be bought out and will soon be available for vet minimum contracts off waivers.

second round picks? i mean mathews sure, but kanter and jordan are two quality centers .I would hope they would work harder to get something out of them if they can. the nets would be smart to try and get matthews and or Kanter and or jordan. the have layers not playing on large contracts and they would be smart to try and get some of those vets to make a push.

[nate33]

I wonder if they are going to try and stock assets by moving jordan and mathews. those two could help a contender hellp so could Kanter. mathews would look good in a kings jersey and they are making a push. Any team with some expirings would love to have jordan i am sure same with kanter. wish we could make that move.

Yes. I'm sure they'll look to move those guys for worse players (on expiring contracts) plus whatever 2nd round picks they can get. I'm not sure how much success they'll have. I think most teams will assume that those guys will be bought out and will soon be available for vet minimum contracts off waivers.

second round picks? i mean mathews sure, but kanter and jordan are two quality centers .I would hope they would work harder to get something out of them if they can.

Both guys are unrestricted free agents this summer. Nobody is going to pay a 1st round pick to rent a mediocre center for 30 games while paying them roughly $7-10M. They'll wait until NY buys them out and sign them for $300,000 on a pro-rated vet minimum deal.

There's also the issue that very few teams even have expiring contracts large enough to make the trade in the first place. The pool of teams who are even capable of trading for them is limited.

Also, neither are quality centers. Kanter hasn't been able to defend his own shadow at any point in his career. And DJ stopped playing defense 2 years ago. He just stands in the paint and waits for rebounds. He's the worst stat-padder in the league. I'll bet neither guy makes even the full MLE next year.

[NatP4]

It should cost a 1st rounder alone to move that Hardaway contract. I can think believe Dallas did that. The reaction from the basketball world is predictable with Porzingis averaging a lot of PPGs.

Really makes me believe that we could flip Wall to LA for Ball and Kuzma.

If the Knicks had a more promising group of young players(should’ve picked Bridges or SGA over Knox) I’d be jumping on that bandwagon.

[gambitx777]

Yes. I'm sure they'll look to move those guys for worse players (on expiring contracts) plus whatever 2nd round picks they can get. I'm not sure how much success they'll have. I think most teams will assume that those guys will be bought out and will soon be available for vet minimum contracts off waivers.

second round picks? i mean mathews sure, but kanter and jordan are two quality centers .I would hope they would work harder to get something out of them if they can.

Both guys are unrestricted free agents this summer. Nobody is going to pay a 1st round pick to rent a mediocre center for 30 games while paying them roughly $7-10M. They'll wait until NY buys them out and sign them for $300,000 on a pro-rated vet minimum deal.

There's also the issue that very few teams even have expiring contracts large enough to make the trade in the first place. The pool of teams who are even capable of trading for them is limited.

Also, neither are quality centers. Kanter hasn't been able to defend his own shadow at any point in his career. And DJ stopped playing defense 2 years ago. He just stands in the paint and waits for rebounds. He's the worst stat-padder in the league. I'll bet neither guy makes even the full MLE next year.

Fair points, I would make the argument that the nets should try to get one or two of the 3 of them. they have large 1 years deals like crabe, dudley , williams all of who are not playing. crabe for Matthews would be brilliant on the nets part. I also think that kanter and or jordan would be a nice add to that teams front depth for the play offs. the kings could make a play for those players to imo. those are the two teams I would look at.

[Dat2U]

Yes. I'm sure they'll look to move those guys for worse players (on expiring contracts) plus whatever 2nd round picks they can get. I'm not sure how much success they'll have. I think most teams will assume that those guys will be bought out and will soon be available for vet minimum contracts off waivers.

second round picks? i mean mathews sure, but kanter and jordan are two quality centers .I would hope they would work harder to get something out of them if they can.

Both guys are unrestricted free agents this summer. Nobody is going to pay a 1st round pick to rent a mediocre center for 30 games while paying them roughly $7-10M. They'll wait until NY buys them out and sign them for $300,000 on a pro-rated vet minimum deal.

There's also the issue that very few teams even have expiring contracts large enough to make the trade in the first place. The pool of teams who are even capable of trading for them is limited.

Also, neither are quality centers. Kanter hasn't been able to defend his own shadow at any point in his career. And DJ stopped playing defense 2 years ago. He just stands in the paint and waits for rebounds. He's the worst stat-padder in the league. I'll bet neither guy makes even the full MLE next year.

You apparently doubt Ernie's ability to Ernie. Watch him sign & trade DJ for TB & Mahimni starting at 4 yrs - 90 mil.

[gambitx777]

It should cost a 1st rounder alone to move that Hardaway contract. I can think believe Dallas did that. The reaction from the basketball world is predictable with Porzingis averaging a lot of PPGs.

Really makes me believe that we could flip Wall to LA for Ball and Kuzma.

If the Knicks had a more promising group of young players(should’ve picked Bridges or SGA over Knox) I’d be jumping on that bandwagon.

Yeah i think wall is tradable once that kicker is no longer an issue. But, hardaway is not terrible he is just over paid. lee can play ok ish hes a good bench player, burke is a nice fill in. i don't think its as big a gamble as people think, The two draft picks is nuts, imo but that is what it is.

[nate33]

Fair points, I would make the argument that the nets should try to get one or two of the 3 of them. they have large 1 years deals like crabe, dudley , williams all of who are not playing. crabe for Matthews would be brilliant on the nets part. I also think that kanter and or jordan would be a nice add to that teams front depth for the play offs. the kings could make a play for those players to imo. those are the two teams I would look at.

Crabbe has a player option next year, one he will surely take. NY isn't going to take on his salary.

Seriously dude, I'm not trying to be harsh, but you need to think about these things before proposing so many bad trade ideas.

The only teams who would trade for those guys (and whom NY would accept the deal) are teams in need of a backup center, who also have a huge expiring contract belonging to a player who is even worse than DJ/Kanter. Really, it would probably be someone with a high cost expiring contract belonging to an injured player. (NY doesn't want to take back anyone playable because they're tanking.)

Something like SAC trading Randolph plus Koufos for DJ might work. But if I'm Sacramento, I'm not including any pick. Why give up a 2nd round pick? It's not like DJ gets Sacramento to the Finals or anything. Just tell NY to do it for the $600K in savings. Take it or leave it.

[gambitx777]

second round picks? i mean mathews sure, but kanter and jordan are two quality centers .I would hope they would work harder to get something out of them if they can.

Both guys are unrestricted free agents this summer. Nobody is going to pay a 1st round pick to rent a mediocre center for 30 games while paying them roughly $7-10M. They'll wait until NY buys them out and sign them for $300,000 on a pro-rated vet minimum deal.

There's also the issue that very few teams even have expiring contracts large enough to make the trade in the first place. The pool of teams who are even capable of trading for them is limited.

Also, neither are quality centers. Kanter hasn't been able to defend his own shadow at any point in his career. And DJ stopped playing defense 2 years ago. He just stands in the paint and waits for rebounds. He's the worst stat-padder in the league. I'll bet neither guy makes even the full MLE next year.

You apparently doubt Ernie's ability to Ernie. Watch him sign & trade DJ for TB & Mahimni starting at 4 yrs - 90 mil.

If we use say a second and sannon to dump say morris off on someone, with nothing back. and jordan, kanter, or mathews get bought out we have that exception and we have give them more than most. i would look for EG to try and get some of those guys to make a push. but we have to get under the tax for that to make sense.

[nate33]

Both guys are unrestricted free agents this summer. Nobody is going to pay a 1st round pick to rent a mediocre center for 30 games while paying them roughly $7-10M. They'll wait until NY buys them out and sign them for $300,000 on a pro-rated vet minimum deal.

There's also the issue that very few teams even have expiring contracts large enough to make the trade in the first place. The pool of teams who are even capable of trading for them is limited.

Also, neither are quality centers. Kanter hasn't been able to defend his own shadow at any point in his career. And DJ stopped playing defense 2 years ago. He just stands in the paint and waits for rebounds. He's the worst stat-padder in the league. I'll bet neither guy makes even the full MLE next year.

You apparently doubt Ernie's ability to Ernie. Watch him sign & trade DJ for TB & Mahimni starting at 4 yrs - 90 mil.

If we use say a second and sannon to dump say morris off on someone, with nothing back. and jordan, kanter, or mathews get bought out we have that exception and we have give them more than most. i would look for EG to try and get some of those guys to make a push. but we have to get under the tax for that to make sense.

We can't trade another 2nd round pick until 2038, I believe.

I think Morris can be moved for some luxtax savings, but I seriously doubt we'll save all $5.7M we need to save to get totally under the cap. I really don't think we'll save $5.7 plus an extra $800K or so we would need to sign one of those guys. But if we did, the guy to get is Matthews. The team needs another shooting guard so Beal doesn't get run into the ground.

[payitforward]

I've written any number of times that Porzingis has yet to show that he's any good at all. ....

This is the perfect opportunity to show you the importance of environment. He's going from the very worst organization in the NBA to one of the better ones which has an outstanding coach. My feeling is that he has the potential to be a top 10 player in the NBA and can reach that potential in a good organization. But that's assuming he gets healthy and stays healthy.

Sure, let's see what happens. No question he's going from a terrible organization to a good one. Whatever else, I certainly hope he gets/stays healthy.

If so, & if he continues to perform at the same meh level of his career so far, will it "show you" that players are who they are & basically play at that level wherever they happen to find themselves?

[payitforward]

It should cost a 1st rounder alone to move that Hardaway contract. I can think believe Dallas did that. The reaction from the basketball world is predictable with Porzingis averaging a lot of PPGs.

Really makes me believe that we could flip Wall to LA for Ball and Kuzma.

If the Knicks had a more promising group of young players(should’ve picked Bridges or SGA over Knox) I’d be jumping on that bandwagon.

I agree with Nat 100%. This trade will make Dallas worse. I'm not sure it will make the Knicks particularly better, but it certainly helps give them room to maneuver going forward.

Unfortunately, room to maneuver means nothing without skill to maneuver. Which they lack.

To give one simple example of their FO's incompetence, they gave Alonzo Trier -- an undrafted kid whom they could have sewn up for 3 years for under $4m -- an $11+m deal for the same period.

This year Trier is making only $360K less than Knox -- who was picked 9th!! He's making more than Troy Brown Jr. He's making almost 6 times what Gary Clark is making w/ Houston!

[payitforward]

We can't trade another 2nd round pick until 2038, I believe.

You may have your digits reversed -- I think it's 3028. & I'm sure Ernie will still be around!

[Eli Babak]

To give one simple example of their FO's incompetence, they gave Alonzo Trier -- an undrafted kid whom they could have sewn up for 3 years for under $4m -- an $11+m deal for the same period.

From where did you get that number? I only see a two-year contract with second year being a team option ($3,382,000 and $3,551,100). It's a lot for a undrafted kid who was originally on a two-way contract but he was impressive early in the season and Knicks had cap space so they overpaid a bit to get that team option. Let's not act like it's a horrible move (like giving Meeks or Smith a deal with player option ). I also think Trier and his agent wanted a deal like this and I totally understand that. Morey is pretty good at getting guys to sign those cheap deals but it doesn't always work (they lost Danuel House because of that).

I tried to find some trade rumors but found nothing - I guess that's a good thing because I don't want Ernie to do anything. Just let him play solitaire in his office and prepare for retirement. Please!

[gesa2]

I've written any number of times that Porzingis has yet to show that he's any good at all. ....

This is the perfect opportunity to show you the importance of environment. He's going from the very worst organization in the NBA to one of the better ones which has an outstanding coach. My feeling is that he has the potential to be a top 10 player in the NBA and can reach that potential in a good organization. But that's assuming he gets healthy and stays healthy.

Sure, let's see what happens. No question he's going from a terrible organization to a good one. Whatever else, I certainly hope he gets/stays healthy.

If so, & if he continues to perform at the same meh level of his career so far, will it "show you" that players are who they are & basically play at that level wherever they happen to find themselves?

I know this is just friendly banter, 'cause I also know you're both way too smart to say any study with an n of 1 can prove squat. Porzingas is young and has talent, he may turn into a top 15 player in Dallas, tho I have my doubts. If he does, we'll never be able to prove that he wouldn't have in NY
The trade is about risks and chances, Dallas taking a chance on Porzingas being a star and worth more than the picks, and NY taking a chance that cap space will turn into stars. Assuming NY has Intel on Durant, it may well be a good risk for both teams.