2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[The-Power]

Luka is average size for a 3 and Trae is average size for a 1. Neither has an advantage.

Basketball is about switching these days, and on top of that being bigger always gives you an advantage all other things being equal. In other words, Luka clearly has an advantage because of his height on both ends, generally speaking. Of course smaller players may have other advantages in terms of quickness or ability to change directions. But all else being equal, size is always an advantage – that much should be obvious. Easier to get your shot off, pass over defenders, finish closer to the rim, post up effectively, challenge shots, hold position. Also, Doncic is definitely a big 3 all things considered.

I guess you could argue that height gives a significant passing advantage, but I don't know if I buy that.

You should, because it's indubitably true. Just watch the highlights. Doncic makes numerous passes which you can only do when you have his height. Plenty of great passes out of traps or when defenses collapse around the rim which he could never do if he was 6'2''.

[Johnny Firpo]

The "Doncic has average size" talk is just pure silliness. Everybody and their mother is in awe how huge he is on the court and how often he has a matchup advantage because of his height. He has been consistently punishing PGs, SGs and smaller/lighter SFs since day one.

[sunsbg]

The "Doncic has average size" talk is just pure silliness. Everybody and their mother is in awe how huge he is on the court and how often he has a matchup advantage because of his height. He has been consistently punishing PGs, SGs and smaller/lighter SFs since day one.

Yeah, he has 25yo's big body, but most importantly he knows how to use it effectively.

The point was that unless he's a starter at PG most of the time he will be defended by a wing, not 6'2 PGs, so the height advantage is not as big as the poster made it sound. Expecially in the playoffs you can expect the best wing defender will be assigned on him. Being so skilled it's not hard for him to dominate against the average one-dimensional wings on the mediocre teams in the RS though.

[gh123]

The "Doncic has average size" talk is just pure silliness. Everybody and their mother is in awe how huge he is on the court and how often he has a matchup advantage because of his height. He has been consistently punishing PGs, SGs and smaller/lighter SFs since day one.

Yeah, he has 25yo's big body, but most importantly he knows how to use it effectively.

The point was that unless he's a starter at PG most of the time he will be defended by a wing, not 6'2 PGs, so the height advantage is not as big as the poster made it sound. Expecially in the playoffs you can expect the best wing defender will be assigned on him. Being so skilled it's not hard for him to dominate against the average one-dimensional wings on the mediocre teams in the RS though.

Looked pretty good against PG and Kawhi, against GSW. Say, you're in 2nd round West PO, how many defensive juggernauts are there? GSW, Denver, Utah or something, who is realistically locking down Luka? Klay? Lol.

[sunsbg]

The "Doncic has average size" talk is just pure silliness. Everybody and their mother is in awe how huge he is on the court and how often he has a matchup advantage because of his height. He has been consistently punishing PGs, SGs and smaller/lighter SFs since day one.

Yeah, he has 25yo's big body, but most importantly he knows how to use it effectively.

The point was that unless he's a starter at PG most of the time he will be defended by a wing, not 6'2 PGs, so the height advantage is not as big as the poster made it sound. Expecially in the playoffs you can expect the best wing defender will be assigned on him. Being so skilled it's not hard for him to dominate against the average one-dimensional wings on the mediocre teams in the RS though.

Looked pretty good against PG and Kawhi, against GSW. Say, you're in 2nd round West PO, how many defensive juggernauts are there? GSW, Denver, Utah or something, who is realistically locking down Luka? Klay? Lol.

All those players will at least make him work, contrary to Alex Burks or whoever scrub defended him against the Cavs. In the playoffs the defenses in general become more serious.

[Johnny Firpo]

All those players will at least make him work, contrary to Alex Burks or whoever scrub defended him against the Cavs. In the playoffs the defenses in general become more serious.

He had big games against a plethora of good/great defenders this year. His combination of scoring, shooting, ball-handling and passing skills help him create good shots against anyone. Yes, in the playoffs defenses become more focused, but great players find a way. Why would he have a problem in the playoffs? Are you not convinced that he is/is going to be a great player?

[gh123]

Yeah, he has 25yo's big body, but most importantly he knows how to use it effectively.

The point was that unless he's a starter at PG most of the time he will be defended by a wing, not 6'2 PGs, so the height advantage is not as big as the poster made it sound. Expecially in the playoffs you can expect the best wing defender will be assigned on him. Being so skilled it's not hard for him to dominate against the average one-dimensional wings on the mediocre teams in the RS though.

Looked pretty good against PG and Kawhi, against GSW. Say, you're in 2nd round West PO, how many defensive juggernauts are there? GSW, Denver, Utah or something, who is realistically locking down Luka? Klay? Lol.

All those players will at least make him work, contrary to Alex Burks or whoever scrub defended him against the Cavs. In the playoffs the defenses in general become more serious.

Sometimes you don't even have to make him work, he'll just chuck 35 footers one after another and not make any of them, like he's competing with Young or something lol.

[Goudelock]

Watch on YouTube

Trae Young's been balling lately.

[sunsbg]

All those players will at least make him work, contrary to Alex Burks or whoever scrub defended him against the Cavs. In the playoffs the defenses in general become more serious.

He had big games against a plethora of good/great defenders this year. His combination of scoring, shooting, ball-handling and passing skills help him create good shots against anyone. Yes, in the playoffs defenses become more focused, but great players find a way. Why would he have a problem in the playoffs? Are you not convinced that he is/is going to be a great player?

I didn't say that, he is already a great offensive player. As you said it's a combination of things that make him special and the size is only one of them. All this discussion started by a poster saying at 6'8 he has a huge height advantage, like he is being guarded by PGs only. Another poster stated 6'8" is average for a SF, which is true. But as usual all this turned into "You don't believe Luka is great" debate.

[Johnny Firpo]

I didn't say that, he is already a great offensive player. As you said it's a combination of things that make him special and the size is only one of them. All this discussion started by a poster saying at 6'8 he has a huge height advantage, like he is being guarded by PGs only. Another poster stated 6'8" is average for a SF, which is true. But as usual all this turned into "You don't believe Luka is great" debate.

Well, you are implying things, and yes, he often does have a big height/weight advantage, because he is being guarded by PGs, SGs, and smaller/lighter SFs. I have watched all of our games, this is definitely a true statement. There are not a lot of wings who are as big as him, I don't know what else to tell you, other than this is definitely a true statement.

[sunsbg]

Looked pretty good against PG and Kawhi, against GSW. Say, you're in 2nd round West PO, how many defensive juggernauts are there? GSW, Denver, Utah or something, who is realistically locking down Luka? Klay? Lol.

All those players will at least make him work, contrary to Alex Burks or whoever scrub defended him against the Cavs. In the playoffs the defenses in general become more serious.

Sometimes you don't even have to make him work, he'll just chuck 35 footers one after another and not make any of them, like he's competing with Young or something lol.

Actually I'm most impressed with his outside shooting. I watched him in EL and thought he was pretty good with set feet, but at least the games I watched his step-back attempts didn't go in. His drives to the hoop are in some part a byproduct of NBA teams not defending a P-and-R properly. No team in EL, and I believe NBA playoffs, will defend it like the first two plays in below video. No wonder Kawhi can't do anything in this situation.

Watch on YouTube

[Bob8]

All those players will at least make him work, contrary to Alex Burks or whoever scrub defended him against the Cavs. In the playoffs the defenses in general become more serious.

He had big games against a plethora of good/great defenders this year. His combination of scoring, shooting, ball-handling and passing skills help him create good shots against anyone. Yes, in the playoffs defenses become more focused, but great players find a way. Why would he have a problem in the playoffs? Are you not convinced that he is/is going to be a great player?

I didn't say that, he is already a great offensive player. As you said it's a combination of things that make him special and the size is only one of them. All this discussion started by a poster saying at 6'8 he has a huge height advantage, like he is being guarded by PGs only. Another poster stated 6'8" is average for a SF, which is true. But as usual all this turned into "You don't believe Luka is great" debate.

In almost every game he’s guarded at least half the time by smaller players and there are switches, where he’s posting smaller players.
It’s really that hard to understand that 6’8 Pg will make some mismatches this or other way? And with all this pick&roll and switches, Luka can choose, who he will attack. Why Simmons is that effective without a shot? Take him away 5’ and he would be nobody.

[sunsbg]

I didn't say that, he is already a great offensive player. As you said it's a combination of things that make him special and the size is only one of them. All this discussion started by a poster saying at 6'8 he has a huge height advantage, like he is being guarded by PGs only. Another poster stated 6'8" is average for a SF, which is true. But as usual all this turned into "You don't believe Luka is great" debate.

Well, you are implying things, and yes, he often does have a big height/weight advantage, because he is being guarded by PGs, SGs, and smaller/lighter SFs. I have watched all of our games, this is definitely a true statement. There are not a lot of wings who are as big as him, I don't know what else to tell you, other than this is definitely a true statement.

I'm just implying he doesn't have Wilt Chamberlain-like advantage some of Luka's fans are implying, but to each his own.

[sunsbg]

He had big games against a plethora of good/great defenders this year. His combination of scoring, shooting, ball-handling and passing skills help him create good shots against anyone. Yes, in the playoffs defenses become more focused, but great players find a way. Why would he have a problem in the playoffs? Are you not convinced that he is/is going to be a great player?

I didn't say that, he is already a great offensive player. As you said it's a combination of things that make him special and the size is only one of them. All this discussion started by a poster saying at 6'8 he has a huge height advantage, like he is being guarded by PGs only. Another poster stated 6'8" is average for a SF, which is true. But as usual all this turned into "You don't believe Luka is great" debate.

In almost every game he’s guarded at least half the time by smaller players and there are switches, where he’s posting smaller players.
It’s really that hard to understand that 6’8 Pg will make some mismatches this or other way? And with all this pick&roll and switches, Luka can choose, who he will attack. Why Simmons is that effective without a shot? Take him away 5’ and he would be nobody.

The funny thing is that for you as usual switches work only in Luka's favor. For example you believe it's so easy to hide him on defense. Also the speed advantage of shorter PGs doesn't exist in this universe.

[Bob8]

I didn't say that, he is already a great offensive player. As you said it's a combination of things that make him special and the size is only one of them. All this discussion started by a poster saying at 6'8 he has a huge height advantage, like he is being guarded by PGs only. Another poster stated 6'8" is average for a SF, which is true. But as usual all this turned into "You don't believe Luka is great" debate.

In almost every game he’s guarded at least half the time by smaller players and there are switches, where he’s posting smaller players.
It’s really that hard to understand that 6’8 Pg will make some mismatches this or other way? And with all this pick&roll and switches, Luka can choose, who he will attack. Why Simmons is that effective without a shot? Take him away 5’ and he would be nobody.

The funny thing is that for you as usual switches work only in Luka's favor. For example you believe it's so easy to hide him on defense. Also the speed advantage of shorter PGs doesn't exist in this universe.

Easy or not, it’s for sure easier to hide 6’8’’ bad defender than 6’2” bad defender.

[peZt]

People who declared Trae a bust after his first month looking mad silly rn. The potential was obvious in College and it was even more obvious in his couple standout performances at the beginning of the season. And yet people were still doubting him because he wasn't putting up consistent numbers as 19 year old rookie PG
It's crazy the amount of hate Rookies are receiving from opposing fans for no particular reason. Like people don't want them to succeed just so they can say "Well I told you he'll be a bust" or "I knew our Rookie would be better"

Just be glad and happy the league is full of talent

[gh123]

Wrote so many posts on Luka's D, really tired. He does just fine on that end, average I'd say. I really don't know what you expect from him, to hold Harden to <15 points on 4-16 shooting and no fouls? I've been watching tons of games this season and I see quick PGs blow by their defenders all the time, do you expect Luka to stay in front of someone like Kemba\Kyrie\Curry on most of possessions?

[Dirk]

Fogive me for dumping Mavs vet rookies plays in here.

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

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Spoiler:

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Mavs go over five minutes without a FG until he scores...

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

And again in the clutch

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

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Gfycat Video - Click to Play

[TheNewEra]

Watch on YouTube

Trae Young's been balling lately.

That’s crazy

[Rockmaninoff]

In almost every game he’s guarded at least half the time by smaller players and there are switches, where he’s posting smaller players.
It’s really that hard to understand that 6’8 Pg will make some mismatches this or other way? And with all this pick&roll and switches, Luka can choose, who he will attack. Why Simmons is that effective without a shot? Take him away 5’ and he would be nobody.

The funny thing is that for you as usual switches work only in Luka's favor. For example you believe it's so easy to hide him on defense. Also the speed advantage of shorter PGs doesn't exist in this universe.

Easy or not, it’s for sure easier to hide 6’8’’ bad defender than 6’2” bad defender.

See, I don't know if I agree with that either.

I'd say it just matters which players are around them, if the team is committed to defense, and if the coaches are able to scheme correctly.

We've seen a recent example of this with the Celtics and Isaiah Thomas (Not comparing Trae to IT though, because Trae should be a better defender in time).