Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[darealjuice]

Yeah that's kind of what happens when you constantly play undersized lineups. Ayton's TRB%, ORB%, and DRB% are all clearly the best of rookies and hold up well with centers around the league. Meanwhile, our starting power forward TJ Warren is 80th out of 86 in TRB% for forwards at 7.2%, which is about half of what Dragan and Quese brought at power forward last year. Jackson, Bridges, and Oubre don't exactly fill that rebounding gap either.

He also has the 5th highest TRB% among rookies since 2000 with the 3rd highest DRB%. But yeah, it's his fault we're a bad rebounding team.

[bwgood77]

Yeah that's kind of what happens when you constantly play undersized lineups. Ayton's TRB%, ORB%, and DRB% are all clearly the best of rookies and hold up well with centers around the league. Meanwhile, our starting power forward TJ Warren is 80th out of 86 in TRB% for forwards at 7.2%, which is about half of what Dragan and Quese brought at power forward last year. Jackson, Bridges, and Oubre don't exactly fill that rebounding gap either.

He also has the 5th highest TRB% among rookies since 2000 with the 3rd highest DRB%. But yeah, it's his fault we're a bad rebounding team.

And TJ was a really good Offensive rebounder (best of non centers...better than our PFs) last year but now that he has become a guy that can hit 3s, his offensive rebounds have dropped like 1.2 offensive boards per game because he plays so much more away from the basket.

[sunsbg]

Yeah that's kind of what happens when you constantly play undersized lineups. Ayton's TRB%, ORB%, and DRB% are all clearly the best of rookies and hold up well with centers around the league. Meanwhile, our starting power forward TJ Warren is 80th out of 86 in TRB% for forwards at 7.2%, which is about half of what Dragan and Quese brought at power forward last year. Jackson, Bridges, and Oubre don't exactly fill that rebounding gap either.

He also has the 5th highest TRB% among rookies since 2000 with the 3rd highest DRB%. But yeah, it's his fault we're a bad rebounding team.

And TJ was a really good Offensive rebounder (best of non centers...better than our PFs) last year but now that he has become a guy that can hit 3s, his offensive rebounds have dropped like 1.2 offensive boards per game because he plays so much more away from the basket.

So once again, let's be careful when suggesting Ayton should start shooting 3s. He's a great offensive rebounder, who also tends to fall in love with outside shooting.

Small-ball suddently doesn't look so great and a guaranteed receipe for success.

[bwgood77]

Yeah that's kind of what happens when you constantly play undersized lineups. Ayton's TRB%, ORB%, and DRB% are all clearly the best of rookies and hold up well with centers around the league. Meanwhile, our starting power forward TJ Warren is 80th out of 86 in TRB% for forwards at 7.2%, which is about half of what Dragan and Quese brought at power forward last year. Jackson, Bridges, and Oubre don't exactly fill that rebounding gap either.

He also has the 5th highest TRB% among rookies since 2000 with the 3rd highest DRB%. But yeah, it's his fault we're a bad rebounding team.

And TJ was a really good Offensive rebounder (best of non centers...better than our PFs) last year but now that he has become a guy that can hit 3s, his offensive rebounds have dropped like 1.2 offensive boards per game because he plays so much more away from the basket.

So once again, let's be careful when suggesting Ayton should start shooting 3s. He's a great offensive rebounder, who also tends to fall in love with outside shooting.

Small-ball suddently doesn't look so great and a guaranteed receipe for success.

I'm not saying he should shoot a ton, but have it in his arsenal. Obviously you'd want a good rebounding PF too though. It's pretty rare these days that centers who don't shoot 3s have a positive ORPM.

The top centers in this list all do...Ayton is 34th in ORPM (pretty big negative) despite his superb efficiency inside. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

[sunsbg]

And TJ was a really good Offensive rebounder (best of non centers...better than our PFs) last year but now that he has become a guy that can hit 3s, his offensive rebounds have dropped like 1.2 offensive boards per game because he plays so much more away from the basket.

So once again, let's be careful when suggesting Ayton should start shooting 3s. He's a great offensive rebounder, who also tends to fall in love with outside shooting.

Small-ball suddently doesn't look so great and a guaranteed receipe for success.

I'm not saying he should shoot a ton, but have it in his arsenal. Obviously you'd want a good rebounding PF too though. It's pretty rare these days that centers who don't shoot 3s have a positive ORPM.

The top centers in this list all do...Ayton is 34th in ORPM (pretty big negative) despite his superb efficiency inside. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

Sorry, I'm not a stats guy, but one that tries to use common sense. I'm not suggesting Ayton should not try a 3 ever, but also don't see how shooting them on a low volume changes anything about this ORPM stat, which is probably mostly an indication of the team play anyway.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/05/04/real-plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using

[bwgood77]

So once again, let's be careful when suggesting Ayton should start shooting 3s. He's a great offensive rebounder, who also tends to fall in love with outside shooting.

Small-ball suddently doesn't look so great and a guaranteed receipe for success.

I'm not saying he should shoot a ton, but have it in his arsenal. Obviously you'd want a good rebounding PF too though. It's pretty rare these days that centers who don't shoot 3s have a positive ORPM.

The top centers in this list all do...Ayton is 34th in ORPM (pretty big negative) despite his superb efficiency inside. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

Sorry, I'm not a stats guy, but one that tries to use common sense. I'm not suggesting Ayton should not try a 3 ever, but also don't see how shooting them on a low volume changes anything about this ORPM stat, which is probably mostly an indication of the team play anyway.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/05/04/real-plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using

It is indicative of team play, and it's rare that players on a bad team are positive, however Booker is the #2 SG in ORPM. 3s and assists help ORPM.

But if he shoots 3s or can draw big defenders out, it leaves paths to the rim open for the other players to have an easy path to the rim.

I mean you can tell me if this list looks off when looking at the top players overall in ORPM. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

So once again, let's be careful when suggesting Ayton should start shooting 3s. He's a great offensive rebounder, who also tends to fall in love with outside shooting.

Small-ball suddently doesn't look so great and a guaranteed receipe for success.

I'm not saying he should shoot a ton, but have it in his arsenal. Obviously you'd want a good rebounding PF too though. It's pretty rare these days that centers who don't shoot 3s have a positive ORPM.

The top centers in this list all do...Ayton is 34th in ORPM (pretty big negative) despite his superb efficiency inside. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

Sorry, I'm not a stats guy, but one that tries to use common sense. I'm not suggesting Ayton should not try a 3 ever, but also don't see how shooting them on a low volume changes anything about this ORPM stat, which is probably mostly an indication of the team play anyway.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/05/04/real-plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using

The team as a whole suffers from Deandre not threatening that 3 at the top of the key. Obviously, we'd prefer 60% from 2 to 33% from 3, but it's not a zero sum game.

[sunsbg]

I'm not saying he should shoot a ton, but have it in his arsenal. Obviously you'd want a good rebounding PF too though. It's pretty rare these days that centers who don't shoot 3s have a positive ORPM.

The top centers in this list all do...Ayton is 34th in ORPM (pretty big negative) despite his superb efficiency inside. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

Sorry, I'm not a stats guy, but one that tries to use common sense. I'm not suggesting Ayton should not try a 3 ever, but also don't see how shooting them on a low volume changes anything about this ORPM stat, which is probably mostly an indication of the team play anyway.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/05/04/real-plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using

It is indicative of team play, and it's rare that players on a bad team are positive, however Booker is the #2 SG in ORPM. 3s and assists help ORPM.

But if he shoots 3s or can draw big defenders out, it leaves paths to the rim open for the other players to have an easy path to the rim.

I mean you can tell me if this list looks off when looking at the top players overall in ORPM. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM

23(Giannis) and 24(Galloway) look suspiciously close. That's way I'm not looking at stats, rather try to enjoy the game and as I said..use a common sense.

[sunsbg]

I'm not saying he should shoot a ton, but have it in his arsenal. Obviously you'd want a good rebounding PF too though. It's pretty rare these days that centers who don't shoot 3s have a positive ORPM.

The top centers in this list all do...Ayton is 34th in ORPM (pretty big negative) despite his superb efficiency inside. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/9

Sorry, I'm not a stats guy, but one that tries to use common sense. I'm not suggesting Ayton should not try a 3 ever, but also don't see how shooting them on a low volume changes anything about this ORPM stat, which is probably mostly an indication of the team play anyway.

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/05/04/real-plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using

The team as a whole suffers from Deandre not threatening that 3 at the top of the key. Obviously, we'd prefer 60% from 2 to 33% from 3, but it's not a zero sum game.

There is no proof the team suffers from anything Ayton is doing except his poor help defense. Josh will not suddently start doing less dumb stuff once Ayton starts hanging around the 3pt line. The whole idea to ask your Nr1 pick and star player to adjust to the role players and not the other way around is .. a lack of common sense.

That being said I can easily see DA turning into a one-dimensional jump shooting C, which IMO will be sad.

[lilfishi22]

Worse still after picking number one.

Phoenix ranks 30th in rebounds per game with 39.9. For comparison, only the Milwaukee Bucks and Dallas Mavericks have had fewer than 40 rebounds per game over the past five seasons. That shouldn’t be happening for the Suns after they selected Deandre Ayton No. 1 overall in the 2018 draft, and one of the big man’s skills was snatching basketballs at high rates off the glass. Their current pace is worse than last season when Alex Len, Dragan Bender, and Marquese Chriss were the ones doing the heavy lifting in this category.

FWIW one guy contributing 11-12rpg isn't going to make us even close to respectable. Team rebounding requires a team effort and the rest of the team just aren't very good at rebounding. As far as I can see, Ayton is the least of our problems from a rebounding standpoint

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Worse still after picking number one.

Phoenix ranks 30th in rebounds per game with 39.9. For comparison, only the Milwaukee Bucks and Dallas Mavericks have had fewer than 40 rebounds per game over the past five seasons. That shouldn’t be happening for the Suns after they selected Deandre Ayton No. 1 overall in the 2018 draft, and one of the big man’s skills was snatching basketballs at high rates off the glass. Their current pace is worse than last season when Alex Len, Dragan Bender, and Marquese Chriss were the ones doing the heavy lifting in this category.

FWIW one guy contributing 11-12rpg isn't going to make us even close to respectable. Team rebounding requires a team effort and the rest of the team just aren't very good at rebounding. As far as I can see, Ayton is the least of our problems from a rebounding standpoint

Ayton's a talented rebounder - he's not the problem.

Josh and Mikal aren't good rebounders for the small forward position, let alone the 4. Neither is TJ, and neither is Ariza. How could anyone be surprised that we're a bad rebounding team?

I just want to see Ayton get aggressive on offense and at least get his hands up on defense.

[Fo-Real]

You cant teach the instinct of being relentless I guess, this is why I like Josh because he is with less actual talent just RELENTLESS. There are WAY too many times you watch Ayton close out on a shooter or try to cover back side defense in mid-range or somehow get pulled away from the basket, the ball swings and or gets shot and you watch him STAND IN THE PLACE HE IS and watch, no matter what happens for WAY TOO LONG. He just seems to refuse to re-engage and keep moving. The other players have started physically pushing him toward the ball or basket for a rebound or wherever he should naturally flow to. While his teammates are fighting for multiple rebounds he is standing near the three point line hoping his teammates come up with it instead of running to the action. His team is literally tipping and fighting for boards while he stands, its infuriating. Watched Bridges shove him toward the basket during a rebound fighting session last night, shoved him toward the basket from the free throw line. Cant teach effort and desire!

[jsierra1985]

ayton plays soft ....but im not giving up on him as in thinking he can be a top center in this league till we bring in a solid pg to open things up for him....regardless he is soft he isnt aggresive at all and im already regretting we missed out on luka

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ayton is a good rebounder and always has been. He can however get better by focusing a little more on boxing out. Right now he relies a little too much on highpointing and since he's big and athletic that works most of the time but against the veteran guys who know how to use position he gets beat a little too often. I think it's a bad habit that some of these guys get because at the lower levels they are so much bigger and more athletic it works; Amare was a little like this too although Ayton is already a much more natural rebounder than Amare ever was.

This is one of the little fundamentals he needs to focus on the next year or two. Setting a good screen is another. The good thing is they are things that can absolutely be learned if he puts in the time and focuses on details.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Ayton is a good rebounder and always has been. He can however get better by focusing a little more on boxing out. Right now he relies a little too much on highpointing and since he's big and athletic that works most of the time but against the veteran guys who know how to use position he gets beat a little too often. I think it's a bad habit that some of these guys get because at the lower levels they are so much bigger and more athletic it works; Amare was a little like this too although Ayton is already a much more natural rebounder than Amare ever was.

This is one of the little fundamentals he needs to focus on the next year or two. Setting a good screen is another. The good thing is they are things that can absolutely be learned if he puts in the time and focuses on details.

Word. Dude got outhustled by Faried for several offensive rebounds last night. Someone needs to remind him that he has a butt and needs to use it.

It's not that I'm running out of patience. I just hate watching players who won't work. Kid just won't hustle.

[bwgood77]

Ayton is a good rebounder and always has been. He can however get better by focusing a little more on boxing out. Right now he relies a little too much on highpointing and since he's big and athletic that works most of the time but against the veteran guys who know how to use position he gets beat a little too often. I think it's a bad habit that some of these guys get because at the lower levels they are so much bigger and more athletic it works; Amare was a little like this too although Ayton is already a much more natural rebounder than Amare ever was.

This is one of the little fundamentals he needs to focus on the next year or two. Setting a good screen is another. The good thing is they are things that can absolutely be learned if he puts in the time and focuses on details.

Word. Dude got outhustled by Faried for several offensive rebounds last night. Someone needs to remind him that he has a butt and needs to use it.

It's not that I'm running out of patience. I just hate watching players who won't work. Kid just won't hustle.

Yeah, between his non hustling sometimes (though last night I understand coming off injury) and Booker non hustling on D, it makes things very tough to make up for it, particularly without a rebounding, defensive PF.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Ayton is a good rebounder and always has been. He can however get better by focusing a little more on boxing out. Right now he relies a little too much on highpointing and since he's big and athletic that works most of the time but against the veteran guys who know how to use position he gets beat a little too often. I think it's a bad habit that some of these guys get because at the lower levels they are so much bigger and more athletic it works; Amare was a little like this too although Ayton is already a much more natural rebounder than Amare ever was.

This is one of the little fundamentals he needs to focus on the next year or two. Setting a good screen is another. The good thing is they are things that can absolutely be learned if he puts in the time and focuses on details.

Word. Dude got outhustled by Faried for several offensive rebounds last night. Someone needs to remind him that he has a butt and needs to use it.

It's not that I'm running out of patience. I just hate watching players who won't work. Kid just won't hustle.

Yeah, between his non hustling sometimes (though last night I understand coming off injury) and Booker non hustling on D, it makes things very tough to make up for it, particularly without a rebounding, defensive PF.

Devin's been much better defensively these last four or so games, so I know he has it in him. With Devin, it's about not putting the entire offense on his shoulders. With Ayton, I expect (hope!) it's just a matter of time.

[bwgood77]

Word. Dude got outhustled by Faried for several offensive rebounds last night. Someone needs to remind him that he has a butt and needs to use it.

It's not that I'm running out of patience. I just hate watching players who won't work. Kid just won't hustle.

Yeah, between his non hustling sometimes (though last night I understand coming off injury) and Booker non hustling on D, it makes things very tough to make up for it, particularly without a rebounding, defensive PF.

Devin's been much better defensively these last four or so games, so I know he has it in him. With Devin, it's about not putting the entire offense on his shoulders. With Ayton, I expect (hope!) it's just a matter of time.

He's been good on a few plays. But last night he had by far the worst +/- and it wasn't due to his offense, which was solid.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Yeah, between his non hustling sometimes (though last night I understand coming off injury) and Booker non hustling on D, it makes things very tough to make up for it, particularly without a rebounding, defensive PF.

Devin's been much better defensively these last four or so games, so I know he has it in him. With Devin, it's about not putting the entire offense on his shoulders. With Ayton, I expect (hope!) it's just a matter of time.

He's been good on a few plays. But last night he had by far the worst +/- and it wasn't due to his offense, which was solid.

I thought the +/- was primarily due to the fact that he shared the court with Harden. Mikal bricked a lot of his threes while Devin was out there. He shared the court least with the only guy who was hot last night - Oubre. I didn't notice Devin's defense last night, though I thought he did work hard on the glass.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ayton is a good rebounder and always has been. He can however get better by focusing a little more on boxing out. Right now he relies a little too much on highpointing and since he's big and athletic that works most of the time but against the veteran guys who know how to use position he gets beat a little too often. I think it's a bad habit that some of these guys get because at the lower levels they are so much bigger and more athletic it works; Amare was a little like this too although Ayton is already a much more natural rebounder than Amare ever was.

This is one of the little fundamentals he needs to focus on the next year or two. Setting a good screen is another. The good thing is they are things that can absolutely be learned if he puts in the time and focuses on details.

Word. Dude got outhustled by Faried for several offensive rebounds last night. Someone needs to remind him that he has a butt and needs to use it.

It's not that I'm running out of patience. I just hate watching players who won't work. Kid just won't hustle.

It's kind of hustle but it's also awareness of who you are playing. Faried has always been undersized so his rebouding game is dependent on guys losing track of where he is and Faried beating them to a spot. You have to know this and pay extra attention to him and get a body on him because if you do that then his lack of size hurts him and you win.

There are a lot of little things that Ayton needs to focus on; which is neither surprising or a big deal with a young player. But this is why I scoff at the people who think they need to try to get him a crap ton of shots every game. His head is already spinning trying to be in the right spot on D and focus on other details that overwhelming him with offensive responsibility wouldn't be good for his development. I think this happened with Booker and as a result he never got better at some little defensive things and it's still a problem today. With Ayton he needs to develop other areas outside of scoring to have the impact you want from a top pick.