2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.)

[BLACKFEET 2010]

So umm...Mudiay.
What are we doing there?
Vonleh could fetch a second for sure.
Frank? Are we letting him and DSJ rock together?
I don’t see it.

[Besart19]

We need to use what we have now to collect low salary, high talent type of players to ease the coming of a tandem of two max cats without comproming the chance to build a deep roster and with no real holes in it

Jordan / Robinson / Kornet
Zion / Vonleh / Harkless
Durant / Knox / Hezonja
Ntilikina / Trier / Dotson
Irving / Smith / Teodosic

[seren]

I am guessing Frank is as good as gone. These guys seem to hold a grudge against Phil Jackson and his team.

[DOT]

I am guessing Frank is as good as gone. These guys seem to hold a grudge against Phil Jackson and his team.

Then what about Dotson and Kornet? They're Phil picks too

I don't think Perry's that petty or if he is, he doesn't let that affect his decisions

If he thinks he can get a good return for Frank, he'll trade him. If not, he won't

[TBri1974]

Would you trade Ntilikina straight up for Isaac? Not sure either team would, but gives Orlando a PG and us a PF - positions where both of us are particularly weak.

[robillionaire]

I am guessing Frank is as good as gone. These guys seem to hold a grudge against Phil Jackson and his team.

Then what about Dotson and Kornet? They're Phil picks too

I don't think Perry's that petty or if he is, he doesn't let that affect his decisions

If he thinks he can get a good return for Frank, he'll trade him. If not, he won't

I think they're gone too, they aren't guaranteed for next year or anything. They might try to use them as throw-ins in a trade.

[RHODEY]

Knick hatin azz Pierce wants so bad for the Knicks not to come up.

Watch on YouTube

[thebuzzardman]

I am guessing Frank is as good as gone. These guys seem to hold a grudge against Phil Jackson and his team.

Then what about Dotson and Kornet? They're Phil picks too

I don't think Perry's that petty or if he is, he doesn't let that affect his decisions

If he thinks he can get a good return for Frank, he'll trade him. If not, he won't

They'll be gone in a little while as well.

Kornet will stick as supersized Novak off the bench. Maybe.

As a counter argument to myself, maybe it's not a grudge against Phil, but against his style of players.
Phil was still sort of in "two tower triangle" mode, like a LA hangover, as opposed to "Two great wings and a prayer at C" from the Chicago days. Now, other than the spacing issues of the triangle in the modern NBA, the Chicago model is the NBA model of success, in general, but especially today.

KP was the best player to get, but maybe, based on the sorts of players Pills like, think, or to give them credit - know, can succeed in the current NBA, maybe they feel that KP's combination of being a big, combined with "ok" outside shooting so far, and lack of creativity (which would be kind of normal for a 4) meant it was time to get out from under his potential contract and get assets back more in line with the current NBA. And bball in general, always, let's be honest.

So, Pills seem to value a PG who can get to rim and pass some, but being a "floor general" or having great vision doesn't seem a priority. Also, while I'm sure they wouldn't turn away a good shooting PG, they didn't seek it out (Mudiay, DSJr). They wanted more athletic players. Check for Mudiay and DSJr. Frank? Depends on how you define athletic. At guard that would be quick. Frank's not quick. They want players that are tall and I'd assume positionless, assuming the Fiz mantra is theirs too. While KP would be agile and quick-ish for a 5, he seems to want to stay at 4. Another reason to go. And they add Knox, who's a tall shooter, at 3, who "might" project as the tallish 4 KP was, but with far greater ability to put the ball on the floor.

Now, with guys driving and breaking down the D from the 1,2, and sometimes the 3, team will need shooters, so there's a reason as bench players Dotson and Kornet might stick. As knockdown 3 point shooters off the bench.

Also, since the C position is getting filled with more Capella types, another reason for KP out, Mitch in.

Finally, the Knicks are counting on filling the 4 spot with a tall-ish PF not as tall as KP but a far better shooter, mid range, driver and all around scorer. His name would be Kevin Durant.

Franks out, unless he transforms himself to a 3&D wing. He's not a Pills guard. That could all be big mistake by year 4, or not, but stylistically he's not their kind of guy. Nevermind the talent and redundancy arguments.

[thebuzzardman]

Would you trade Ntilikina straight up for Isaac? Not sure either team would, but gives Orlando a PG and us a PF - positions where both of us are particularly weak.

I'm not sold on Isaac as a player, but half the forum isn't sold on Frank as a player, so there's that. I'd probably do it.

To me, when a team has the kid, adds Burke, then Mudiay, then DSJr, I'd say the FO doesn't like him as a player either, in spite of whatever BS Mills said in the sideline interview with what's her name. He's not going to ruin whatever trade value Frank has around the league.

They probably have a few scenarios they'd move him for at the deadline, but then it's easier to move him leading up to the draft etc, in some other scenarios, which I can't begin to imagine, but another guy on Franks general timeline but redundant on another team, traded for some teams 2019 draft pick, maybe in the teens, moved for cheap vet and a 2nd rounder after the max cats come, if they do, and especially if one is Kyrie, etc etc

*edit
I also assume if Kyrie doesn't sign with the Knicks, and if Durant comes, or not, Mudiay is getting resigned to share PG with DSJr.

[TBri1974]

Would you trade Ntilikina straight up for Isaac? Not sure either team would, but gives Orlando a PG and us a PF - positions where both of us are particularly weak.

I'm not sold on Isaac as a player, but half the forum isn't sold on Frank as a player, so there's that. I'd probably do it.

To me, when a team has the kid, adds Burke, then Mudiay, then DSJr, I'd say the FO doesn't like him as a player either, in spite of whatever BS Mills said in the sideline interview with what's her name. He's not going to ruin whatever trade value Frank has around the league.

They probably have a few scenarios they'd move him for at the deadline, but then it's easier to move him leading up to the draft etc, in some other scenarios, which I can't begin to imagine, but another guy on Franks general timeline but redundant on another team, traded for some teams 2019 draft pick, maybe in the teens, moved for cheap vet and a 2nd rounder after the max cats come, if they do, and especially if one is Kyrie, etc etc

This is pretty much where I sit. I actually like Frank a lot, but I am not sure we will end up being the best place for him. Seems we are not committed to him. I don't love Isaac, but at some point we have 4 young guards - not including Mudiay - 3 of whom can play PG (I include Trier in that bunch) and no young PFs but Vonleh, and I am not sure what he commands in the FA market.

[Monk1718]

I’m not giving up on frank yet. He’s been underperforming this season but i think he’ll be a good fit going forward. His play has regressed even from his abysmal rookie season but that can be due to a variety of factors. We have him on a rookie contract and he is a team player no need to rush to trade him.

[TBri1974]

I’m not giving up on frank yet. He’s been underperforming this season but i think he’ll be a good fit going forward. His play has regressed even from his abysmal rookie season but that can be due to a variety of factors. We have him on a rookie contract and he is a team player no need to rush to trade him.

True, but if we do not get the #1 pick we become a team of guards and small forwards with one Center. If we take Morant or Barrett, we need to think about consolidating talent and who fills our gap at PF. I am fine locking Vonleh into a 4 year deal if it is reasonable (nothing above 8 mil per year), but if we cannot get him at that cost - or even if we can - we need to think about adding bigs and ensuring our guards are given room to grow. Hard to grow three people at one position.

[thebuzzardman]

I’m not giving up on frank yet. He’s been underperforming this season but i think he’ll be a good fit going forward. His play has regressed even from his abysmal rookie season but that can be due to a variety of factors. We have him on a rookie contract and he is a team player no need to rush to trade him.

I'm not but I'm fairly certain the FO has, or will.

[thebuzzardman]

I’m not giving up on frank yet. He’s been underperforming this season but i think he’ll be a good fit going forward. His play has regressed even from his abysmal rookie season but that can be due to a variety of factors. We have him on a rookie contract and he is a team player no need to rush to trade him.

True, but if we do not get the #1 pick we become a team of guards and small forwards with one Center. If we take Morant or Barrett, we need to think about consolidating talent and who fills our gap at PF. I am fine locking Vonleh into a 4 year deal if it is reasonable (nothing above 8 mil per year), but if we cannot get him at that cost - or even if we can - we need to think about adding bigs and ensuring our guards are given room to grow. Hard to grow three people at one position.

Exactly. I forgot to add this. Outside of getting Zion,picking anywhere 2-6 (much more likely than #1), every player talked about there is a SG or PG.

Frank stays, Zion scenarios:
Scenario where Frank might stay:Knicks draft Zion, don't sign Durant or Kyrie, continue to build OR
Knicks draft Zion, sign Durant but not Kyrie, keep Frank for depth at PG/SG.

In any scenario where Kyrie comes to the Knicks, whether Zion is drafted or not, Frank is probably out.

In the scenario where Kyrie comes to the Knicks and Zion isn't drafted, Frank is DEFINITELY out, as that's Kyrie/DSJr/Trier/2019 #1 and Dot at guards.

Even with the scenarios that are Durant, no Durant, Zion but but no Durant, it's still easy to envision the FO trading Frank and resigning Mudiay, Frank is safe, for now, as a hedge against Mudiay asking for too many $ in the offseason but out in nearly every other scenario, other than the Knicks enjoy Frank more in the role as backup PG who'd also have some use backing up SG and SF as well, and I don't see it.

[newyorker4ever]

I’m not giving up on frank yet. He’s been underperforming this season but i think he’ll be a good fit going forward. His play has regressed even from his abysmal rookie season but that can be due to a variety of factors. We have him on a rookie contract and he is a team player no need to rush to trade him.

True, but if we do not get the #1 pick we become a team of guards and small forwards with one Center. If we take Morant or Barrett, we need to think about consolidating talent and who fills our gap at PF. I am fine locking Vonleh into a 4 year deal if it is reasonable (nothing above 8 mil per year), but if we cannot get him at that cost - or even if we can - we need to think about adding bigs and ensuring our guards are given room to grow. Hard to grow three people at one position.

I'm starting to fall back on Vonleh a little more then i was for a while cause he hasn't been looking like anything more then a backup PF for the last maybe 3-4 weeks or so and has lost his 3 point shot that he was hitting for a while. For a while i was hating that we were most likely gonna lose him and now i'm not as worried about losing him and think we can find a vet PF to take his place if we get two max players in here this offseason. Now if we end up missing out on the max players then i'm fine with bringing him back for a 1 year deal to see if he really has taken that next step in his career but a 4 year deal....i can't get behind that one for Vonleh.

[Lord Commander]

Knick hatin azz Pierce wants so bad for the Knicks not to come up.

Watch on YouTube

I'd pay next month's mortgage for a chance to punch that rat face mafugga right in the mouth.

[iLovethosedamnknicks]

we should make these two trades to give us additional assets:

kanter and lance thomas for zbo / koufas and 2nd rounder (get a 2nd rounder and save 1m from lance next year)

wes mathews and vonleh for wilson chandler, muscala, patten, and 2nd rounder (get 2nd rounder)

[thebuzzardman]

we should make these two trades to give us additional assets:

kanter and lance thomas for zbo / koufas and 2nd rounder (get a 2nd rounder and save 1m from lance next year)

wes mathews and vonleh for wilson chandler, muscala, patten, and 2nd rounder (get 2nd rounder)

Is there a team besides Philly with that could use Vonleh or Matthews?

Would be nice to have 3 #2 picks out of these guys. Of course they couldn't use them all, but to be there to include in trades etc.

[newyorker4ever]

we should make these two trades to give us additional assets:

kanter and lance thomas for zbo / koufas and 2nd rounder (get a 2nd rounder and save 1m from lance next year)

wes mathews and vonleh for wilson chandler, muscala, patten, and 2nd rounder (get 2nd rounder)

Is there a team besides Philly with that could use Vonleh or Matthews?

Would be nice to have 3 #2 picks out of these guys. Of course they couldn't use them all, but to be there to include in trades etc.

I don't think the problem is finding plenty of teams that are interested in W.Mathews, Vonleh, d.Jordan and others, the problem is finding a team that would have the right players on expiring contracts to trade us for them and to get them to give up draft picks as well. There's no doubt that there's playoff teams that would love to have W.Mathews and D.Jordan for their playoff run. Two good vets that can still do what they've been doing their entire careers so far. Some teams don't wanna give up anything cause they're pretty sure we're gonna cut W.Mathews after the deadline if we don't trade him. I think we'll definitely find a trade for Mathews but think we're good with keeping Jordan and i could see us trading Vonleh and maybe Frank and some other young guys. I wish we could trade Mathews, Vonleh and Mudiay. I'd be happy to trade all 3 and get some 2nd round draft picks and maybe even get lucky and get a late 1st for Mathews.

[NoLayupRule]

Would you trade Ntilikina straight up for Isaac? Not sure either team would, but gives Orlando a PG and us a PF - positions where both of us are particularly weak.

I'm not sold on Isaac as a player, but half the forum isn't sold on Frank as a player, so there's that. I'd probably do it.

To me, when a team has the kid, adds Burke, then Mudiay, then DSJr, I'd say the FO doesn't like him as a player either, in spite of whatever BS Mills said in the sideline interview with what's her name. He's not going to ruin whatever trade value Frank has around the league.

They probably have a few scenarios they'd move him for at the deadline, but then it's easier to move him leading up to the draft etc, in some other scenarios, which I can't begin to imagine, but another guy on Franks general timeline but redundant on another team, traded for some teams 2019 draft pick, maybe in the teens, moved for cheap vet and a 2nd rounder after the max cats come, if they do, and especially if one is Kyrie, etc etc

*edit
I also assume if Kyrie doesn't sign with the Knicks, and if Durant comes, or not, Mudiay is getting resigned to share PG with DSJr.

I think part of the issue with frank has been expectation

He was picked by Phil to be a triangle pg
So he was a guy who would move the ball, spot up, defend and defer to the system and whoever was the dominant scorer. Not really a play maker.
Or that’s the typical role he would have played.

So we all, and everyone in the league, largely saw him as a point.
When he plays the 1 he’s neither a scoring guard or a playmaking guard. In today’s nba it’s penetrate and pass or get yours at the 1.

So fiz has largely recconcieved him as a defensive 2 who can make a play sometimes. Perhaps a 3 in an insane world.

Let’s remember franks age, the coaching and roster turnover and the role changes he’s had before we throw him away

I see him as a Lindsay hunter point guard. A guy who’s gonna hood the defensive line, make some plays and mostly defer to more dominant scorers.

Sounds great with guards like kyrie or dsj

I think we keep him

(That said I think Isaac might be a better fit need for us and I would certainly consider a straight up trade)