Trade Vucevic poll

[Skin]

Agreed.

Same. Good to clarify. I totally think he could win elsewhere, just not here. Would suck to lose him for nothing.

Skin trying to pretend he's not a Vuc hater...
You are so full of crap. You can't play that card after spending years crapping on him every way possible and saying you'd be thrilled to trade him for nothing.

Put him on Golden State and he'll be a winner.

Not pretending ****. In fact, I need credit for wanting him gone when it was unpopular and now more people are on board with it.
Softevuc has to go. Would suck to lose him for nothing because he's finally turned into an All-Star and that should at least raise his value. Enough with losing trades *cough Tobias cough*. But yeah, I'll take seeing him leave in FA for nothing if it means getting him off the team. I'll be thrilled to see him gone, just like I was for Tobias and Elf. Don't get confused. I can admit he's a good offensive player that could help a veteran team. He's just not a guy you center a young rebuild around.

All that said, I absolutely cannot stand Fournier. Hate him more than Vuc. #DipoForever!

[OrlandoNed]

Weltman and Hammond are most likely doing exactly what the owners and Alex Martins want, which is their job.

Ownership must not want championships then.

Correct. WeHams “job” is to put Orlando in the best situation for a championship. Just because ownership wants to win now doesn’t mean it puts Orlando in the best position to succeed. If they decide that merely making the playoffs is the goal, they are either bad at their jobs or puppets. Pick one.

Por que no los dos?

[Popsicle1228]

Even if this poll was skewed 70/1 in favor of trading Vuc it wouldn’t mean anything. They will absolutely resign him to a lucrative deal. He just made Allstar, he’s in his prime, and Bamba was just being shopped.

The front office have proven they are cowards and should have traded him last season to save themselves the embarrassment of being put in this situation. They decided not to and here we are. I would be totally shocked if they trade him. True Magic fans should be justifiably upset if they have to watch this iteration of basketball for another 2-3 years.

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

[Bergmaniac]

Weltman and Hammond are most likely doing exactly what the owners and Alex Martins want, which is their job.

Ownership must not want championships then.

Correct. WeHams “job” is to put Orlando in the best situation for a championship. Just because ownership wants to win now doesn’t mean it puts Orlando in the best position to succeed. If they decide that merely making the playoffs is the goal, they are either bad at their jobs or puppets. Pick one.

No, their job is to do what the CEO/owners want of them. This is a huge business and for most owners money are more important than titles. If the owners want a push for the playoffs and retaining Vucevic, that's what will happen.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Even if this poll was skewed 70/1 in favor of trading Vuc it wouldn’t mean anything. They will absolutely resign him to a lucrative deal. He just made Allstar, he’s in his prime, and Bamba was just being shopped.

The front office have proven they are cowards and should have traded him last season to save themselves the embarrassment of being put in this situation. They decided not to and here we are. I would be totally shocked if they trade him. True Magic fans should be justifiably upset if they have to watch this iteration of basketball for another 2-3 years.

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

I'd give it a 30% chance Vuc is/could've been an all star on any other team. He'd likely come off the bench and not have the luxury of the offense run through him. The whole sit and evaluate motto has almost come full circle and the FO has minimal to show for it and in the process screwed themselves either way

[OrlandoNed]

Ownership must not want championships then.

Correct. WeHams “job” is to put Orlando in the best situation for a championship. Just because ownership wants to win now doesn’t mean it puts Orlando in the best position to succeed. If they decide that merely making the playoffs is the goal, they are either bad at their jobs or puppets. Pick one.

No, their job is to do what the CEO/owners want of them. This is a huge business and for most owners money are more important than titles. If the owners want a push for the playoffs and retaining Vucevic, that's what will happen.

Hmm, I didn't know making money and winning titles was an either/or situation.

[Bergmaniac]

We aren't winning titles anytime soon anyway....

[Popsicle1228]

Even if this poll was skewed 70/1 in favor of trading Vuc it wouldn’t mean anything. They will absolutely resign him to a lucrative deal. He just made Allstar, he’s in his prime, and Bamba was just being shopped.

The front office have proven they are cowards and should have traded him last season to save themselves the embarrassment of being put in this situation. They decided not to and here we are. I would be totally shocked if they trade him. True Magic fans should be justifiably upset if they have to watch this iteration of basketball for another 2-3 years.

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

I'd give it a 30% chance Vuc is/could've been an all star on any other team. He'd likely come off the bench and not have the luxury of the offense run through him. The whole sit and evaluate motto has almost come full circle and the FO has minimal to show for it and in the process screwed themselves either way

I cannot wholly disagree with you by asserting with 100% accuracy that Vuc would have been an All Star on another team because we are both speaking about a hypothetical situation. However, seeing as this is his contract year, no matter the team he played on there is an almost near certainty they would have gotten his best, and strong chance he would be more productive when compared to any player we have on this roster. I maintain the Vuc situation is a rock and a hard place with no clear definitive answer to the best possible route.

[VFX]

Even if this poll was skewed 70/1 in favor of trading Vuc it wouldn’t mean anything. They will absolutely resign him to a lucrative deal. He just made Allstar, he’s in his prime, and Bamba was just being shopped.

The front office have proven they are cowards and should have traded him last season to save themselves the embarrassment of being put in this situation. They decided not to and here we are. I would be totally shocked if they trade him. True Magic fans should be justifiably upset if they have to watch this iteration of basketball for another 2-3 years.

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

The difference is that Vuc doesn’t become an allstar if he goes to a team with players to take away from his offensive production. The FO would actually appear to have a plan if they got rid of players they inherited instead of rolling out the same guys since Hennigan. Funny you mention Birch. He’s a great backup that is warming the bench now because their plan backfired. Total mismanagement of assets.

[Popsicle1228]

Even if this poll was skewed 70/1 in favor of trading Vuc it wouldn’t mean anything. They will absolutely resign him to a lucrative deal. He just made Allstar, he’s in his prime, and Bamba was just being shopped.

The front office have proven they are cowards and should have traded him last season to save themselves the embarrassment of being put in this situation. They decided not to and here we are. I would be totally shocked if they trade him. True Magic fans should be justifiably upset if they have to watch this iteration of basketball for another 2-3 years.

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

The difference is that Vuc doesn’t become an allstar if he goes to a team with players to take away from his offensive production. The FO would actually appear to have a plan if they got rid of players they inherited instead of rolling out the same guys since Hennigan. Funny you mention Birch. He’s a great backup that is warming the bench now because their plan backfired. Total mismanagement of assets.

See my post just before yours regarding Vuc potentially being an All Star on another team.

I agree that Birch is a solid back up, but not a suitable replacement for Vuc.

[VFX]

Ownership must not want championships then.

Correct. WeHams “job” is to put Orlando in the best situation for a championship. Just because ownership wants to win now doesn’t mean it puts Orlando in the best position to succeed. If they decide that merely making the playoffs is the goal, they are either bad at their jobs or puppets. Pick one.

No, their job is to do what the CEO/owners want of them. This is a huge business and for most owners money are more important than titles. If the owners want a push for the playoffs and retaining Vucevic, that's what will happen.

Then you will have to assume ownership doesnt give a **** about the part of the fan base that isn’t just casual or a tourist. Why be a fan of a team that values the business side moreso than the attempt at a championship? This is a pet-project for a family like Devos’. I’d like to assume management is just incompetent, rather than ownership is pushing them to do things that aren’t beneficial in the long run.

[VFX]

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

The difference is that Vuc doesn’t become an allstar if he goes to a team with players to take away from his offensive production. The FO would actually appear to have a plan if they got rid of players they inherited instead of rolling out the same guys since Hennigan. Funny you mention Birch. He’s a great backup that is warming the bench now because their plan backfired. Total mismanagement of assets.

See my post just before yours regarding Vuc potentially being an All Star on another team.

I agree that Birch is a solid back up, but not a suitable replacement for Vuc.

Yes. It’s all hypothetical, but chances are he wouldn’t have made it not being the focal point of the offense on another team... If you want to believe otherwise - go ahead. The point about Birch wasn’t to emphasize that he’s a starter. Birch is a great backup that now either gets DNP’s or spot minutes. You draft Bamba and resign Vuc to a multi year deal you lose whatever value he had.

[Bergmaniac]

Correct. WeHams “job” is to put Orlando in the best situation for a championship. Just because ownership wants to win now doesn’t mean it puts Orlando in the best position to succeed. If they decide that merely making the playoffs is the goal, they are either bad at their jobs or puppets. Pick one.

No, their job is to do what the CEO/owners want of them. This is a huge business and for most owners money are more important than titles. If the owners want a push for the playoffs and retaining Vucevic, that's what will happen.

Then you will have to assume ownership doesnt give a **** about the part of the fan base that isn’t just casual or a tourist. Why be a fan of a team that values the business side moreso than the attempt at a championship? This is a pet-project for a family like Devos’. I’d like to assume management is just incompetent, rather than ownership is pushing them to do things that aren’t beneficial in the long run.

This assumes that all non-casual fans agree with your way of thinking, which is really not the case. A lot of hardcore fans hate tanking. But more importantly, I really don't think it's a coincidence that the team has never committed to tanking in the last several years even though we had plenty of good opportunities for it. Hiring coaches like Skiles and Clifford known for getting the best of subpar rosters but not for developing young players was also not a coincidence either. Vogel wasn't supposed to be a tanking type coach either. He sucked badly, but he was a big name when he was hired. IMO it's pretty clear that ownership had enough of tanking after the first few Hennigan years and since then we've been actually trying to make the playoffs every year and we never went full tanking mode even after the habitual midseason collapses in the standings.

[VFX]

No, their job is to do what the CEO/owners want of them. This is a huge business and for most owners money are more important than titles. If the owners want a push for the playoffs and retaining Vucevic, that's what will happen.

Then you will have to assume ownership doesnt give a **** about the part of the fan base that isn’t just casual or a tourist. Why be a fan of a team that values the business side moreso than the attempt at a championship? This is a pet-project for a family like Devos’. I’d like to assume management is just incompetent, rather than ownership is pushing them to do things that aren’t beneficial in the long run.

This assumes that all non-casual fans agree with your way of thinking, which is really not the case. A lot of hardcore fans hate tanking. But more importantly, I really don't think it's a coincidence that the team has never committed to tanking in the last several years even though we had plenty of good opportunities for it. Hiring coaches like Skiles and Clifford known for getting the best of subpar rosters but not for developing young players was also not a coincidence either. Vogel wasn't supposed to be a tanking type coach either. He sucked badly, but he was a big name when he was hired. IMO it's pretty clear that ownership had enough of tanking after the first few Hennigan years and since then we've been actually trying to make the playoffs every year and we never went full tanking mode even after the habitual midseason collapses in the standings.

It’s not really my way of thinking. Management has to make a tough decision, either resign Vuc and continue with this group, that will barely make the playoffs with a low ceiling, or give the FO the opportunity to build something for the future. That’s the predicament not an opinion. What does this have to do with tanking? It’s called making a sacrifice that isn’t that big of a risk. We’d be going from middling playoff push first round exit to possibly bottom 5.

[IllMagic04]

Even if this poll was skewed 70/1 in favor of trading Vuc it wouldn’t mean anything. They will absolutely resign him to a lucrative deal. He just made Allstar, he’s in his prime, and Bamba was just being shopped.

The front office have proven they are cowards and should have traded him last season to save themselves the embarrassment of being put in this situation. They decided not to and here we are. I would be totally shocked if they trade him. True Magic fans should be justifiably upset if they have to watch this iteration of basketball for another 2-3 years.

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

If we traded Vuc last year I feel comfortable saying that we woulda lost enough games to get Doncic or Young. So I myself would have ben very pleased with tht result.

[basketballRob]

Even if this poll was skewed 70/1 in favor of trading Vuc it wouldn’t mean anything. They will absolutely resign him to a lucrative deal. He just made Allstar, he’s in his prime, and Bamba was just being shopped.

The front office have proven they are cowards and should have traded him last season to save themselves the embarrassment of being put in this situation. They decided not to and here we are. I would be totally shocked if they trade him. True Magic fans should be justifiably upset if they have to watch this iteration of basketball for another 2-3 years.

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

In this scenario we would've had to trade him to another losing team that revolved their offense around him to become an all-star.

[IllMagic04]

We are not trading him but I would trade if I was the GM. I understand it looks bad but I don't care about looks. I care about trying to build a basketball team. If the offers for Vuc are bad then I'd keep him but if we can get some young backcourt help and a pick I'd move him. I like Vuc more then most and I think he will continue to tear it up wherever he goes. Its just time for us to move on. We drafted Bamba so clearly he's the future center. Lets get him in there. It's not just about the amount of minutes but I want Bamba in when its crunch time. Can't do that with Vuc here. Bamba will struggle a lot but I also think every so often he will have a big game where we see some flashes.

[Furinkazan]

You conradict your own thought process as you bash and basicly give up on 20 year olds and then you complain we traded other young guys.
How can you compare 28 old Vooch to what was Harris and Dipo 23 at the time ?and basiclyproving that we shoudnt give up on them.

I never said Magic should dump young players. BUt move medicore prospects until their value doesn't deminish further for actual nba level players or better assets is called asset menagment.

Harris and Oladipo were younger, but also much worst players when they were moved than Vuc. HOWEVER it's not issuse that they were traded, but what Magic got ( or didn't get ) in return.

Vooch must be least valued by GMs ALL star I ever heard of.I think even Chris Gatling had more value back in the day.That also says something.

This is false and flat out dumb.
Kyle Korver, Paul Millsap Jeff Teague , 3 allstars from 3 years ago.

Vooch 3 years on the market and nobody is willing to give up anything of value for him.

Do you sit in front office and know offers? No. So you treat subjective opinion based on rumors as factual , objective point. That's on you.

They didnt while he was on a great contract They wont when he will be on around 20 mil.Yes he produce but he produce empty stats

Empty stats because you value them as such. Yet your D gets all pumped up with blood when Isaac puts up 13 points on 4-12 shooting but than it's not empty stats but "showing flashes" so what is it ? Either both stats are empty or both stats are telling. You can't charry pick. Not just Isaac but Bamba, Gordon, Frazier, Iwundu or whoever.

BTW as you pointed out we dont have money to put better players around him and as you condamn trading players too soon (DIpo Harris)You want me to watch same **** for 8th str8 year?Or do you want to give up Bamba and Isaac because you labeled them scrubs and finished products...(same as people did with Dipo and harris back then)
and you ask me where is common sense?

For god knows how many times i repeat same thing . Oladipo and Harris could both be packaged into a trade for Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Dragić, Thad Young, Rivers, Brandon Knight, Jr Smith, Rondo, Crowder... (all moved in that period ) yet Magic got IBAKA on exp deal, Illyasova - on exp deal and Jennings- on exp deal. Problem is returning (non existing)value. Not trade itself.
Other teams used Oladipo and Harris to get Blake Griffin and Paul George. Magic used them to get 4 months of Serge Ibaka.

[Popsicle1228]

Even if this poll was skewed 70/1 in favor of trading Vuc it wouldn’t mean anything. They will absolutely resign him to a lucrative deal. He just made Allstar, he’s in his prime, and Bamba was just being shopped.

The front office have proven they are cowards and should have traded him last season to save themselves the embarrassment of being put in this situation. They decided not to and here we are. I would be totally shocked if they trade him. True Magic fans should be justifiably upset if they have to watch this iteration of basketball for another 2-3 years.

If we had traded Vuc last year, and he had became an all star this year, I suspect the narrative on this forum would be very different. There would be much anger directed at the FO for trading away two future All Stars (Oladipo and Vuc) during our "rebuild." Some members may be referring to the FO as cowards for not trading him last year, but I imagine the board in general would calling the FO much worse than cowards if Vuc became an All Star on another team.

I think it is pretty clear that the FO planned on trading Vuc when they drafted Bamba, but Vuc threw a wrench in that plan when he started playing at an All Star level, and it became clear Bamba was more of a project than perhaps he was originally thought to be. Prior to the Bamba pick, who was going to replace Vuc if we traded him last year? Biz and Birch?

In this scenario we would've had to trade him to another losing team that revolved their offense around him to become an all-star.

Perhaps you are correct. He is the focal point in Orlando, but would not be on most contending teams. That is why I kept using the word "if." Also, as stated before, it is hypothetical and impossible for either of us to know. I maintain that he was likely to give his best this year no matter where he could have been traded to because it is a contract year. This being a contract year may have been enough of an incentive to become an all star on another team, but perhaps not.

My broader point was that our back ups were Biz and Birch, and I do not think it was cowardly for the FO to keep Vuc past the trade deadline last year. After all, the FO openly stated that last season was an "evaluation year", and by the end of last year I believe they decided they would depart from Vuc this season (drafting Bamba). Then Vuc threw a wrench in that plan by having the best season he has ever had, becoming the first all star we have had since I believe 2012, and becoming the focal point of Steve Clifford's offense. Bamba's lack of production has also made trading Vuc even more difficult.

[Skin]

Our problem is that there is still a disconnect between Ownership, Front Office and Coaching Staff. We have no direction because we do not have a shared vision.