Forget public perception, would you start over and begin tanking now?

[GatorbaitDD]

yeah time to clean house

[MagicStarwipe]

It ain't real tanking if you don't finish bottom 3.

[Nemesis21]

It ain't real tanking if you don't finish bottom 3.

#Truth

[fklt]

success is all about opportunity management. it's not about following a recipe as much it is about overall competency, risk taking, having a solid grasp on what you're doing.

if there is an opportunity presenting itself to draft a generational talent like doncic and you have a barrage of injuries and other reasons to let it all go, you do it like spurs did with tim duncan. if teams are moving away from their young players to win now, you go and collect those assets, like brooklyn did with DLo. if there is an opportunity to get a disgruntled star you shuffle those assets you gathered up and get your star, like toronto did with kawhi and houston did with harden. if there are stupid teams like chicaco willing to give nurkić and harris to you for mcdermott you take advantage of them like denver. you draft smart like goldenstate, you handle your cap well like heat, you cash in at the right time like boston and it goes on and on. if you wait for life to hand you your lemons, you just watch your assets wither away slowly. lucky us, that seems to be our plan.

as for the titular question, tanking wasn't that attractive an option until this year and it just got worse now. i don't believe our management's capacity to draft so what's even the point.

[Knightro]

Not all tanking is created equal.

People have this mistaken belief that tanking is just losing a lot and it's not. The Magic have lost a ton the last seven years and have virtually nothing to show for it.

There's a bit of an artful science to tanking that goes beyond just losing games. If the Magic (or any team) actually want to tank properly, then they have to full blown commit to doing what the Cavs and Hawks are currently doing.

1. Unload most of your veterans for draft assets.
2. Flip your expiring contracts for as much bad salary as you possibly can in exchange for draft assets.
3. Work the margins as much as you possibly can at all times. Always be the team willing to help facilitate a 3-team deal in exchange for draft assets.
4. Treat 2nd round picks as currency. Take on as many as you possibly can at all times and use them to grease the wheels in trades down the road.
5. Don't be afraid to take on draft assets 2, 3 even 4 years down the road.
6. Put an absolute premium on skill development on individual players and creating a culture and system you believe in. Do this at the expense of winning games if you have to (although the lack of talent usually makes this not an issue).

What you CAN'T do as a tanking team is just play out seasons where you win between 20-30 games and then hope that your one draft pick turns out to be a star. That just doesn't get it done anymore.

And yes, even if you do all the things I mentioned above, you still need good fortune. You can do everything "right" and still end up screwed if the ping pong balls don't fall the way you need them to fall.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

We're past any talk of tanking and the idea of it isn't what Martins wants to do. He has been trying to short cut the playoffs for the past 7 years and look where we are. Only way we get out of this hole is if we get lucky in the draft or somehow sign a tier FA. Chances of those happening are slim to none IMO

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Dump Fournier. Choose to build around Vuc or BIG. But as we've been saying for a long time, JUST DO SOMETHING GOD DAMN IT

[Nemesis21]

Dump Fournier & Vuc. Choose to build around BIG. But as we've been saying for a long time, JUST DO SOMETHING GOD DAMN IT

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Dump Fournier & Vuc. Choose to build around BIG. But as we've been saying for a long time, JUST DO SOMETHING GOD DAMN IT

hahaha. I'm so numb from watching our treadmill that I'd be fine with building a 2nd-round-exit-at-best team with Vuc

[axl_c_cool]

The biggest problem we have is balance in my opinion, if you look at our roster

PG: No starting PG/Augustine
SG: No starting SG/Fournier
SF: No starting SF/Ross
PF: Gordon/Isaac
C: Vucevic/Bamba

The main rotation players we have are either better as back ups or overlap. A decision needs to be made with Gordon and Isaac, and with Vucevic and Bamba, until those choices are made we will be stuck here. Personally I feel the easier choice is Bamba instead of Vucevic, just from a time line perspective, Gordon and Isaac is the real debate and it's a tough one. I'm not sure Isaac becomes the player Gordon is or will become, I'm just not sure Gordon resigns here in 3 years time, I've always felt he'd want to play in LA or a bigger market so I think I'd probably move him if it was for the right young player.

[drsd]

The biggest problem we have is balance in my opinion, if you look at our roster

PG: No starting PG/Augustine
SG: No starting SG/Fournier
SF: No starting SF/Ross
PF: Gordon/Isaac
C: Vucevic/Bamba

The main rotation players we have are either better as back ups or overlap. A decision needs to be made with Gordon and Isaac, and with Vucevic and Bamba, until those choices are made we will be stuck here. Personally I feel the easier choice is Bamba instead of Vucevic, just from a time line perspective, Gordon and Isaac is the real debate and it's a tough one. I'm not sure Isaac becomes the player Gordon is or will become, I'm just not sure Gordon resigns here in 3 years time, I've always felt he'd want to play in LA or a bigger market so I think I'd probably move him if it was for the right young player.

By PER, Augustin is the worst starting PG in the league, but is still at #30. Ross has a stater's level PER and is the #16 SG. But those numbers are clearly coming from playing against inferior players. Fournier is posting good-bench-level PER lines and sits at #39. Gordon is also only marginally putting up starting PER lines and is at #30. (Isaac is at #55). This leave Orlando with only one true star-quality player, Vučević at #4 for the C slot.

So: Orlando currently has one excellent starter, three marginal starters/excellent-bench players, and two rotational players, by PER.


..

[axl_c_cool]

The biggest problem we have is balance in my opinion, if you look at our roster

PG: No starting PG/Augustine
SG: No starting SG/Fournier
SF: No starting SF/Ross
PF: Gordon/Isaac
C: Vucevic/Bamba

The main rotation players we have are either better as back ups or overlap. A decision needs to be made with Gordon and Isaac, and with Vucevic and Bamba, until those choices are made we will be stuck here. Personally I feel the easier choice is Bamba instead of Vucevic, just from a time line perspective, Gordon and Isaac is the real debate and it's a tough one. I'm not sure Isaac becomes the player Gordon is or will become, I'm just not sure Gordon resigns here in 3 years time, I've always felt he'd want to play in LA or a bigger market so I think I'd probably move him if it was for the right young player.

By PER, Augustin is the worst starting PG in the league, but is still at #30. Ross has a stater's level PER and is the #16 SG. But those numbers are clearly coming from playing against inferior players. Fournier is posting good-bench-level PER lines and sits at #39. Gordon is also only marginally putting up starting PER lines and is at #30. (Isaac is at #55). This leave Orlando with only one true star-quality player, Vučević at #4 for the C slot.

So: Orlando currently has one excellent starter, three marginal starters/excellent-bench players, and two rotational players, by PER.


..

Thank you for the breakdown, it shows that Gordon is still developing, and if played as an out and out PF would probably have a massive jump in production too. We need to start again with role specific players, because this mixing and matching players doesn’t work with such a young team.