Future Free Agent Thread

[KqWIN]

You lose out on legacy, and that’s often more important than money. Rudy said it himself. When Rudy got snubbed, the main narrative was that people don’t value defense and don’t appreciate his offense. That is definitely true, but DeAndre Jordan and Tyson Chandler made all star games with much more seasons on both ends. Where were they playing? LA and NY.

There’s a chance DJ leaves with a greater legacy than Gobert. All because he got more attention in LA and had the greatest hype man ever in Doc.

That **** would piss me off. If I was an agent, I would do anything and everything I could to keep my players out of Utah. Anything you do in Utah will benefit you way less if you did the same thing in a large or destination market.

Can we really even blame Gobert or Mitchell if/when they want to leave?

[stitches]

Ryen Russilo was on Bill Simmons' podcast after the trade deadline and he said he's talked to 5 GMs who would have money in the summer and asked them about Butler. All of them told him "Yeah... nope"... Butler might be disappointed by the market for his services.

If that's indeed the case... would you max him? if not, how much would you give him to come to Utah?

[AingesBurner]

Ryen Russilo was on Bill Simmons' podcast after the trade deadline and he said he's talked to 5 GMs who would have money in the summer and asked them about Butler. All of them told him "Yeah... nope"... Butler might be disappointed by the market for his services.

If that's indeed the case... would you max him? if not, how much would you give him to come to Utah?

25 per year.

[stitches]

Ryen Russilo was on Bill Simmons' podcast after the trade deadline and he said he's talked to 5 GMs who would have money in the summer and asked them about Butler. All of them told him "Yeah... nope"... Butler might be disappointed by the market for his services.

If that's indeed the case... would you max him? if not, how much would you give him to come to Utah?

25 per year.

I'm thinking about something along the lines of what Lowry and Millsap got - 3/100?

[KqWIN]

I wouldn’t hesitate to max him out.

[Inigo Montoya]

You lose out on legacy, and that’s often more important than money.

If players really wanted a legacy, they would have come to the Jazz--who has a ready-made team just lacking that star. Stockton and Malone have a great legacy, and nothing will cement a player's legacy more than to win a ring with the Jazz. If Durant wanted a legacy, he'd consider the Jazz and not the Knicks. The thing is, players want both the money and big market experience and the legacy, which leaves the Jazz out of it.

Ryen Russilo was on Bill Simmons' podcast after the trade deadline and he said he's talked to 5 GMs who would have money in the summer and asked them about Butler. All of them told him "Yeah... nope"... Butler might be disappointed by the market for his services.

If that's indeed the case... would you max him? if not, how much would you give him to come to Utah?

Hell yeah, I'd max him. We were willing to take on Conley and Porter's contracts, or max Harris or Middleton, so I'd definitely max Butler who is better than all of them.

[KqWIN]

You lose out on legacy, and that’s often more important than money.

If players really wanted a legacy, they would have come to the Jazz--who has a ready-made team just lacking that star. Stockton and Malone have a great legacy, and nothing will cement a player's legacy more than to win a ring with the Jazz. If Durant wanted a legacy, he'd consider the Jazz and not the Knicks. The thing is, players want both the money and big market experience and the legacy, which leaves the Jazz out of it.

Hard disagree. Winning a championship in NY would get you way more pub than winning it in UTA. Nobody cares about the Jazz. The Knicks are the most valued team in the entire league. Turning that team around would do more for his legacy than all of his Warriors championships combined.

[Rauxcee]

Ryen Russilo was on Bill Simmons' podcast after the trade deadline and he said he's talked to 5 GMs who would have money in the summer and asked them about Butler. All of them told him "Yeah... nope"... Butler might be disappointed by the market for his services.

If that's indeed the case... would you max him? if not, how much would you give him to come to Utah?

I don't like Butler and I think he's a total cancer that will destroy the locker room when things arent goimg his way, but if he was interested in playing for us, then I'd pay him.

[CAE15]

While Utah does have a stigma tied to it of who wants to play here.. the thing that people often don't realize is the jazz haven't had much room to sign these marquee guys. Sure there's been a few seasons but it's not a huge sample size. Jazz were a championship team with a strong rotation back in the late 90s. They had chemistry but also a loaded payroll. Also jazz attempted to trade for Chris Mullin but the trade fell through.

So then John and Karl leave and now the jazz have pretty much nothing outside of AK and are projected to be the worst team in the history of the league.. who would want to join that roster? Jerry does maybe his best coaching job and nearly makes it to the playoffs. AK is signed to a then MAX deal as he certainly earned it.

Jazz tried to sign Elton Brand and Corey Maggette but they decided to stay and Maggette offer sheet was matched. Jazz go on to sign boozer and okur to large contracts. And with AK already locked in, there goes your cap space for the next several years. Deron does deron things and gets his big contract. Jazz again cap strapped.

Boozer leaves.. Portland gives Millsap large offer sheet.. jazz match.. where's the cap? Deron trade.. utah starts to rebuild.. who is joining that team? The make the trade with the warriors with their capspace.. warriors tank their ass off to retain their pick, so it doesn't come out as high of an asset.

Jazz resign Hayward and Favors.. where's the cap? Jazz make the Hill trade, hill gets full of himself and thinks he's worth a max. Jazz once again planned to pay their own players. Hayward leaves.. who is joining that team? Hayward stays... maybe jazz have an interested player..

We kept spending on our own guys..i know my timeline isn't perfect but we haven't had all these opportunities to come to the conclusion of nobody wants to come to Utah.



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[sip]

You are 100% correct. The few times that we have had capspace we were in full rebuild mode where it didn't make sense. Still there are certain players that just haven't wanted to be here but you can actually say that about a lot of players and a lot of markets including the most desirable ones.

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[Inigo Montoya]

You lose out on legacy, and that’s often more important than money.

If players really wanted a legacy, they would have come to the Jazz--who has a ready-made team just lacking that star. Stockton and Malone have a great legacy, and nothing will cement a player's legacy more than to win a ring with the Jazz. If Durant wanted a legacy, he'd consider the Jazz and not the Knicks. The thing is, players want both the money and big market experience and the legacy, which leaves the Jazz out of it.

Hard disagree. Winning a championship in NY would get you way more pub than winning it in UTA. Nobody cares about the Jazz. The Knicks are the most valued team in the entire league. Turning that team around would do more for his legacy than all of his Warriors championships combined.

That's kind of the point. The Knicks used to be a good franchise that even won a championship. Greatness is expected there even though the franchise has been terrible for decades. There is a difference between publicity and legacy. You'd get all the publicity you want if you go to NY or LA or play for the Warriors. You'd have a much greater legacy if you beat the big teams with a small market team. Imagine KD coming to Utah and wins a championship here instead of him going to NY or LA (or staying with the Warriors) to form another super-team.

[Inigo Montoya]

While Utah does have a stigma tied to it of who wants to play here.. the thing that people often don't realize is the jazz haven't had much room to sign these marquee guys. Sure there's been a few seasons but it's not a huge sample size. Jazz were a championship team with a strong rotation back in the late 90s. They had chemistry but also a loaded payroll. Also jazz attempted to trade for Chris Mullin but the trade fell through.

So then John and Karl leave and now the jazz have pretty much nothing outside of AK and are projected to be the worst team in the history of the league.. who would want to join that roster? Jerry does maybe his best coaching job and nearly makes it to the playoffs. AK is signed to a then MAX deal as he certainly earned it.

Jazz tried to sign Elton Brand and Corey Maggette but they decided to stay and Maggette offer sheet was matched. Jazz go on to sign boozer and okur to large contracts. And with AK already locked in, there goes your cap space for the next several years. Deron does deron things and gets his big contract. Jazz again cap strapped.

Boozer leaves.. Portland gives Millsap large offer sheet.. jazz match.. where's the cap? Deron trade.. utah starts to rebuild.. who is joining that team? The make the trade with the warriors with their capspace.. warriors tank their ass off to retain their pick, so it doesn't come out as high of an asset.

Jazz resign Hayward and Favors.. where's the cap? Jazz make the Hill trade, hill gets full of himself and thinks he's worth a max. Jazz once again planned to pay their own players. Hayward leaves.. who is joining that team? Hayward stays... maybe jazz have an interested player..

We kept spending on our own guys..i know my timeline isn't perfect but we haven't had all these opportunities to come to the conclusion of nobody wants to come to Utah.



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Eh. Remember in the 90s the Jazz traded for Seikaly who refused to show and the trade was cancelled. Remember when we had Deron and he went to the allstar game and tried to recruit Melo and asked him if he'd consider Utah (the rumors about Melo being traded were gaining steam at the time) and Melo said, "would you consider Utah?" And now we can add Conley to the list (I'm sure I forgot a few names). Let's also remember that the Jazz sold the fanbase on them "accumulating assets" so that when the next star\s are traded they'll have the assets to trade for them. They pushed that company line for years, and yet many stars have been traded and the Jazz got nothing, and held on to their assets until they were no longer valuable. The fact is that we spend on our own players because we can't get anyone else who's better because the big fish prefer other, bigger ponds.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Who is everyone’s favorite “realistic” targets.

If it were July 1st right now and I were the Jazz I would renounce Favors and Korver and with the roughly $41M in cap space make offers to both Mirotic and Brogdan that I thought the Bucks couldn't match given the holes that they have to fill next summer. I would then get the best wing I could for the MLE and use the biannual on a backup center (perhaps even offer it to Udoh).

[Daddy 801]

Just to add to the Boozer example, not only was he was just up and coming as a second year player, but it also took some questionable practices to get him to the Jazz--it was a whole thing.

As for BarneyGumble's point about financial incentives--he's making a very good point. Guys like Vuc and Russell and many others are allstars and Gobert is not, even though his impact is much greater and he's a far better player. He lost 1M in financial incentives by not being selected to the allstar game. That's real money he's losing (yes, he's a multi-millionaire, poor him), and there is also the financial determent of playing in a small market team in terms of less sponsorships opportunities that pay less, etc.

I’ll grant the All-Star thing is a verrryyy legitimate argument. Looking at the AllStar players in the East and seeing Gobert get snubbed is a joke. One more reason to do away with the conferences. Hell, at least get rid of them for the AllStars. I hope we see a greater influx of high level players leave for the east like we just saw this trade deadline.

I guess I have a higher feeling a player could come because I did the same thing. I grew up out of Utah. Thought it was an insane place to live in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. And now I just view Utah so different than I did 10 years ago. The influx of non Mormons and tons of tech companies has changed Utah. Hell, we just legalized weed. It’s just different to me. But maybe I’m being short sighted. And maybe I’m just use to Utah now, which could further prove the point that once you are here people like it. It’s the getting people here that could be hard.

I still just think this team, this coach, and what Utah is now compared to even a decade ago is vastly different.

[Daddy 801]

Ryen Russilo was on Bill Simmons' podcast after the trade deadline and he said he's talked to 5 GMs who would have money in the summer and asked them about Butler. All of them told him "Yeah... nope"... Butler might be disappointed by the market for his services.

If that's indeed the case... would you max him? if not, how much would you give him to come to Utah?

I have a hard time believing that. But if it’s true then of course I wouldn’t sign Butler to a max. The only players I would rather have next offseason is Durant and Kawhi. Donny, Butler, Korver, Ingles, Gobert would be an insane defensive lineup.

[Tom349]

Ryen Russilo was on Bill Simmons' podcast after the trade deadline and he said he's talked to 5 GMs who would have money in the summer and asked them about Butler. All of them told him "Yeah... nope"... Butler might be disappointed by the market for his services.

If that's indeed the case... would you max him? if not, how much would you give him to come to Utah?

Not surprising given how average he has been this season. Seems to have lost a step.

[stitches]

http://www.1280thezone.com/david-locke-explains-his-position-on-utah-as-a-nba-free-agent-destination/

Locke preparing us for a strike out in free agency too... "I think it's going to be a difficult free agent market to yield a free agent.. so I'm not as optimistic"

[Rauxcee]

http://www.1280thezone.com/david-locke-explains-his-position-on-utah-as-a-nba-free-agent-destination/

Locke preparing us for a strike out in free agency too... "I think it's going to be a difficult free agent market to yield a free agent.. so I'm not as optimistic"

In other news, water is wet reportedly.

[Inigo Montoya]

I’ll grant the All-Star thing is a verrryyy legitimate argument. Looking at the AllStar players in the East and seeing Gobert get snubbed is a joke. One more reason to do away with the conferences. Hell, at least get rid of them for the AllStars. I hope we see a greater influx of high level players leave for the east like we just saw this trade deadline.

I guess I have a higher feeling a player could come because I did the same thing. I grew up out of Utah. Thought it was an insane place to live in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. And now I just view Utah so different than I did 10 years ago. The influx of non Mormons and tons of tech companies has changed Utah. Hell, we just legalized weed. It’s just different to me. But maybe I’m being short sighted. And maybe I’m just use to Utah now, which could further prove the point that once you are here people like it. It’s the getting people here that could be hard.

I still just think this team, this coach, and what Utah is now compared to even a decade ago is vastly different.

Some of it is perception and some of it is a reality of a small market. You don't have to sell me or any other "regular" person on Utah being a great place--the situation for NBA players is very different. An NBA player won't come to play for the Jazz because a lot of tech companies are now based in Utah. They won't come to play for the Jazz because weed is legal--it is still a forbidden substance by the league and they can get it anywhere anyway. The selling point for the common folk and for NBA players is vastly different, and the business aspect of a small market also comes into play. I can imagine that even if a good player is open to come to Utah, his agent might dissuade him from doing so purely due to a lack of financial appeal.

[CAE15]

While Utah does have a stigma tied to it of who wants to play here.. the thing that people often don't realize is the jazz haven't had much room to sign these marquee guys. Sure there's been a few seasons but it's not a huge sample size. Jazz were a championship team with a strong rotation back in the late 90s. They had chemistry but also a loaded payroll. Also jazz attempted to trade for Chris Mullin but the trade fell through.

So then John and Karl leave and now the jazz have pretty much nothing outside of AK and are projected to be the worst team in the history of the league.. who would want to join that roster? Jerry does maybe his best coaching job and nearly makes it to the playoffs. AK is signed to a then MAX deal as he certainly earned it.

Jazz tried to sign Elton Brand and Corey Maggette but they decided to stay and Maggette offer sheet was matched. Jazz go on to sign boozer and okur to large contracts. And with AK already locked in, there goes your cap space for the next several years. Deron does deron things and gets his big contract. Jazz again cap strapped.

Boozer leaves.. Portland gives Millsap large offer sheet.. jazz match.. where's the cap? Deron trade.. utah starts to rebuild.. who is joining that team? The make the trade with the warriors with their capspace.. warriors tank their ass off to retain their pick, so it doesn't come out as high of an asset.

Jazz resign Hayward and Favors.. where's the cap? Jazz make the Hill trade, hill gets full of himself and thinks he's worth a max. Jazz once again planned to pay their own players. Hayward leaves.. who is joining that team? Hayward stays... maybe jazz have an interested player..

We kept spending on our own guys..i know my timeline isn't perfect but we haven't had all these opportunities to come to the conclusion of nobody wants to come to Utah.



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Eh. Remember in the 90s the Jazz traded for Seikaly who refused to show and the trade was cancelled. Remember when we had Deron and he went to the allstar game and tried to recruit Melo and asked him if he'd consider Utah (the rumors about Melo being traded were gaining steam at the time) and Melo said, "would you consider Utah?" And now we can add Conley to the list (I'm sure I forgot a few names). Let's also remember that the Jazz sold the fanbase on them "accumulating assets" so that when the next star\s are traded they'll have the assets to trade for them. They pushed that company line for years, and yet many stars have been traded and the Jazz got nothing, and held on to their assets until they were no longer valuable. The fact is that we spend on our own players because we can't get anyone else who's better because the big fish prefer other, bigger ponds.

Yes there's definitely times players have refused to come here but my point was it's not like we've had so many super appealing teams to join that could both offer big money and a chance on being on a very good team. We actually have that after this year. There's players all around that didn't want to go certain places. And even today players can have preference pf where to go but sometimes that's not always based on Utah being Utah. Maybe they think the team is too deep and not enough minutes, style of play, difficulty of the west in general but yes, you will have certain players who won't like the weather, city, people, nightlife scene. Small markets as a whole have less appeal to a lot of players. You get players refusing to workout in the draft for pretty much any team imaginable. Jazz do best with basketball junkies and players who compete day in and day out. I don't think you can write utah out on the FAs just yet. Also it depends on where we finish in the seeding, assuming we make playoffs.

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