2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[Bob8]

1- What reputation are you talking about?

2- Which perimeter player who shoots 3s has much more than 20% of his shots at the rim?

Irving is at .236 and one of the reason is that he avoids contact : 3.6 FTA vs 6.3 FTA for Luka.

You are being irrational.

And like it has been said, I don't have the numbers, but if you took out Luka's last second "shots", he would go from a 35% to a 37% 3pt shooter (if he had 18 such shots this year, which I think must be close). Not bad for a rookie who creates most of his shots.

The bolded is all I really care about and illustrates the fundamental problem here. I don't view him as a perimeter player - more like a high volume guy bordering "chucker" if his attempts continue to increase and 3pt shot continues to fall off the way it has since the season began.

Based on what I've he operates far more efficiently within 16ft. I mean c'mon he's averaging 38% with his jumpers and 34% from 3pt range. That's not a natural perimeter player we're talking about. Steph Curry IS a perimeter player averaging 45% jumpers and 49% 3's. In fact Doncic's jumper #'s closely mirror LeBrons - would you call him a perimeter player?

I'm not going to sit here and say Doncic is an abysmal shooter. In some ways, based on his usage I see him as a more refined version of Westbrook.

Luka is 19 years old.

[enigmatics]

Luka is 19 years old.

Most 19 years don't have any experience in any level of "professional" ball, so he's not your average youngster.

But to your question - could he improve? It's possible. He at least has a great work ethic that suggests he'd continue to try to improve.

[bwgood77]

Watch on YouTube

Bender the best PG in Phoenix

Their chemistry looked really good last night. Bender can be a very good passer.

[Bob8]

Luka is 19 years old.

Most 19 years don't have any experience in any level of "professional" ball, so he's not your average youngster.

But to your question - could he improve? It's possible. He at least has a great work ethic that suggests he'd continue to try to improve.

Yes they teach shooting much better in Europe. Dragic&Co. were all great shooters in Europe and they didn’t improve in Nba.
You really believe it’s possible for 19 years old player to improve? Not if he comes from Europe. Luka peaked in his first month in Nba.

[leolozon]

1- What reputation are you talking about?

2- Which perimeter player who shoots 3s has much more than 20% of his shots at the rim?

Irving is at .236 and one of the reason is that he avoids contact : 3.6 FTA vs 6.3 FTA for Luka.

You are being irrational.

And like it has been said, I don't have the numbers, but if you took out Luka's last second "shots", he would go from a 35% to a 37% 3pt shooter (if he had 18 such shots this year, which I think must be close). Not bad for a rookie who creates most of his shots.

The bolded is all I really care about and illustrates the fundamental problem here. I don't view him as a perimeter player - more like a high volume guy bordering "chucker" if his attempts continue to increase and 3pt shot continues to fall off the way it has since the season began.

Based on what I've he operates far more efficiently within 16ft. I mean c'mon he's averaging 38% with his jumpers and 34% from 3pt range. That's not a natural perimeter player we're talking about. Steph Curry IS a perimeter player averaging 45% jumpers and 49% 3's. In fact Doncic's jumper #'s closely mirror LeBrons - would you call him a perimeter player?


I'm not going to sit here and say Doncic is an abysmal shooter. In some ways, based on his usage I see him as a more refined version of Westbrook.

He's not at 34% from 3pt, he's at 35% (how to know that someone is biased and irrational : he will round down 9), and once again he probable takes more last second shots from half court than anyone in the league. He's also a rookie and if you want him to take less 3 right now instead of letting him develop his 3pt game further, then you don't understand how the game is played right now.

As for Lebron's comparison, Luka will never be as athletic as him. He will never get to the rim as easily. Your comparison is unfair, considering that Luka is using the floater a lot instead of getting to the rim, something that doesn't show in the 0-3 feet range.

Luka is working on the perimeter more than Lebron, as he should. He's a far better shooter than rookie Lebron and will never be as fast, explosive or strong. So forget your idea about him going to the rim as much as Lebron.

[enigmatics]

He's not at 34% from 3pt, he's at 35% (how to know that someone is biased and irrational : he will round down 9), and once again he probable takes more last second shots from half court than anyone in the league. He's also a rookie and if you want him to take less 3 right now instead of letting him develop his 3pt game further, then you don't understand how the game is played right now.

As for Lebron's comparison, Luka will never be as athletic as him. He will never get to the rim as easily. Your comparison is unfair, considering that Luka is using the floater a lot instead of getting to the rim, something that doesn't show in the 0-3 feet range.

Luka is working on the perimeter more than Lebron, as he should. He's a far better shooter than rookie Lebron and will never be as fast, explosive or strong. So forget your idea about him going to the rim as much as Lebron.

Wow...... a whole .1%. Makes no difference to me, whether 34-35% it's still a far cry off the 40%+ he was shooting to begin the year. Btw, please share with us the "half court shot" stat that explains the drop in his overall three point shooting, as well as the % of his shots that are floaters. If you can't, then it's conjecture.

The other thing is you do know that there's this thing called "practice" and a shooting coach right? In-game isn't the only place to refine one's outside shot.

[VCfor3]

This Mavs FO was one of the most impressive things I've seen in the NBA in a very long time. "We found our franchise player and we're gonna build around him", if I had a dollar every time some GM said those words I'd be rich sort of thing. They all say it. The Mavs didn't just say it but they actually meant it and then acted on it in the blink of an eye. This is our guy, chuck all the previous plans in the bin, sell the farm, mortgage everything, bet it all. No BS.

I hope Luka has good mentors at this stage in his life. It's obvious that all that is because of him and now everything depends on him. It can be overwhelming for men at the peak of the careers, never mind a friggin teenager. He is incredibly lucky but at the same time it can also be too much.

The Memphis FO said those exact words when they said they were moving Mike and Marc. The only thing they got back that MIGHT be within 5 years of age of JJJ is the 2024 TOR 2nd.

[Bob8]

He's not at 34% from 3pt, he's at 35% (how to know that someone is biased and irrational : he will round down 9), and once again he probable takes more last second shots from half court than anyone in the league. He's also a rookie and if you want him to take less 3 right now instead of letting him develop his 3pt game further, then you don't understand how the game is played right now.

As for Lebron's comparison, Luka will never be as athletic as him. He will never get to the rim as easily. Your comparison is unfair, considering that Luka is using the floater a lot instead of getting to the rim, something that doesn't show in the 0-3 feet range.

Luka is working on the perimeter more than Lebron, as he should. He's a far better shooter than rookie Lebron and will never be as fast, explosive or strong. So forget your idea about him going to the rim as much as Lebron.

Wow...... a whole .1%. Makes no difference to me, whether 34-35% it's still a far cry off the 40%+ he was shooting to begin the year. Btw, please share with us the "half court shot" stat that explains the drop in his overall three point shooting, as well as the % of his shots that are floaters. If you can't, then it's conjecture.

The other thing is you do know that there's this thing called "practice" and a shooting coach right? In-game isn't the only place to refine one's outside shot.

He had 40% only in his first 8 games in October, he had 36% in November and December, 31% in January and has 32% in February. That’s 35% in big volume. And yes, he’s taking many impossible shots in last moments. Even RC said, that he respects how Luka doesn’t care about his %. 35% is pretty respectable, considering what kind of shots he’s taking and how old he’s. Shooting is matter of repetition and that’s why almost everyone becomes better through out the career. Jordan was 15% shooter in his first 4 years, LeBron 29%.

[enigmatics]

He had 40% only in his first 8 games in October, he had 36% in November and December, 31% in January and has 32% in February. That’s 35% in big volume. And yes, he’s taking many impossible shots in last moments. Even RC said, that he respects how Luka doesn’t care about his %. 35% is pretty respectable, considering what kind of shots he’s taking and how old he’s. Shooting is matter of repetition and that’s why almost everyone becomes better through out the career. Jordan was 15% shooter in his first 4 years, LeBron 29%.

Once again I ask - how many shots has he taken from 3 point land in waning moments that would explain the 5%+ drop in his 3pt shooting?

You're providing a narrative that couldn't possibly explain it.

[leolozon]

He's not at 34% from 3pt, he's at 35% (how to know that someone is biased and irrational : he will round down 9), and once again he probable takes more last second shots from half court than anyone in the league. He's also a rookie and if you want him to take less 3 right now instead of letting him develop his 3pt game further, then you don't understand how the game is played right now.

As for Lebron's comparison, Luka will never be as athletic as him. He will never get to the rim as easily. Your comparison is unfair, considering that Luka is using the floater a lot instead of getting to the rim, something that doesn't show in the 0-3 feet range.

Luka is working on the perimeter more than Lebron, as he should. He's a far better shooter than rookie Lebron and will never be as fast, explosive or strong. So forget your idea about him going to the rim as much as Lebron.

Wow...... a whole .1%. Makes no difference to me, whether 34-35% it's still a far cry off the 40%+ he was shooting to begin the year. Btw, please share with us the "half court shot" stat that explains the drop in his overall three point shooting, as well as the % of his shots that are floaters. If you can't, then it's conjecture.

The other thing is you do know that there's this thing called "practice" and a shooting coach right? In-game isn't the only place to refine one's outside shot.

You missed the point about the 1 % (not .1%). It’s not about if there’s a big difference or not. It’s about you showing your bias even if subconsciously. You rounded down 34.9% to 34% to try to make it seem worst. It’s impossible to have rational discussion with someone with a bias.

But thanks for ignoring the overall point I was making. If you think Luka should slow down on the 3pt shot at 19, then I doubt that you want him to become the best player that he can be.

Message to anyone, where can I find 3pt shots by distance? I’m certain Luka is shooting around 37% from near the 3pt line, most of them unassited, as a rookie. I’m not sure how anyone can think that this is bad and shouldn’t be developped further. Unless that person has a bias of course.

Even Trae should keep shooting the 3 and he’s worst at it than Luka so far.

[Bob8]

He had 40% only in his first 8 games in October, he had 36% in November and December, 31% in January and has 32% in February. That’s 35% in big volume. And yes, he’s taking many impossible shots in last moments. Even RC said, that he respects how Luka doesn’t care about his %. 35% is pretty respectable, considering what kind of shots he’s taking and how old he’s. Shooting is matter of repetition and that’s why almost everyone becomes better through out the career. Jordan was 15% shooter in his first 4 years, LeBron 29%.

Once again I ask - how many shots has he taken from 3 point land in waning moments that would explain the 5%+ drop in his 3pt shooting?

You're providing a narrative that couldn't possibly explain it.

What drop? 8 games is just not big enough sample. 50+ is. 35% is the number, not 40% and not 30%. You can easy calculate at least 1 impossible shot per match. It wouldn’t be 40%, but more than 35% for sure.

[enigmatics]

You missed the point about the 1 % (not .1%). It’s not about if there’s a big difference or not. It’s about you showing your bias even if subconsciously. You rounded down 34.9% to 34% to try to make it seem worst. It’s impossible to have rational discussion with someone with a bias.

But thanks for ignoring the overall point I was making. If you think Luka should slow down on the 3pt shot at 19, then I doubt that you want him to become the best player that he can be.

Message to anyone, where can I find 3pt shots by distance? I’m certain Luka is shooting around 37% from near the 3pt line, most of them unassited, as a rookie. I’m not sure how anyone can think that this is bad and shouldn’t be developped further. Unless that person has a bias of course.

Even Trae should keep shooting the 3 and he’s worst at it than Luka so far.

There's no bias coming from me. The difference between 34 and 35 is insignificant. However, the difference between 35 and 40 is. Attacking my character won't change that.

People who can't provide tangible numbers for all those so-called "half court shots" or that you can only develop your 3pt shot "in-game" claims are definitely suspect for biased arguments though.

[Bob8]

You missed the point about the 1 % (not .1%). It’s not about if there’s a big difference or not. It’s about you showing your bias even if subconsciously. You rounded down 34.9% to 34% to try to make it seem worst. It’s impossible to have rational discussion with someone with a bias.

But thanks for ignoring the overall point I was making. If you think Luka should slow down on the 3pt shot at 19, then I doubt that you want him to become the best player that he can be.

Message to anyone, where can I find 3pt shots by distance? I’m certain Luka is shooting around 37% from near the 3pt line, most of them unassited, as a rookie. I’m not sure how anyone can think that this is bad and shouldn’t be developped further. Unless that person has a bias of course.

Even Trae should keep shooting the 3 and he’s worst at it than Luka so far.

There's no bias coming from me. The difference between 34 and 35 is insignificant. However, the difference between 35 and 40 is. Attacking my character won't change that.

People who can't provide tangible numbers for all those so-called "half court shots" or that you can only develop your 3pt shot "in-game" claims are definitely suspect for biased arguments though.

I wonder how you call people, who don’t understand how stats work and how small sample is 8 games?

[Oscar9992]

Deandre Ayton not jeaulous at Luka Doncic... wishes him the best & says 'Luka is my guy'!

Watch on YouTube

[zonedefense]

You missed the point about the 1 % (not .1%). It’s not about if there’s a big difference or not. It’s about you showing your bias even if subconsciously. You rounded down 34.9% to 34% to try to make it seem worst. It’s impossible to have rational discussion with someone with a bias.

But thanks for ignoring the overall point I was making. If you think Luka should slow down on the 3pt shot at 19, then I doubt that you want him to become the best player that he can be.

Message to anyone, where can I find 3pt shots by distance? I’m certain Luka is shooting around 37% from near the 3pt line, most of them unassited, as a rookie. I’m not sure how anyone can think that this is bad and shouldn’t be developped further. Unless that person has a bias of course.

Even Trae should keep shooting the 3 and he’s worst at it than Luka so far.

There's no bias coming from me. The difference between 34 and 35 is insignificant. However, the difference between 35 and 40 is. Attacking my character won't change that.

People who can't provide tangible numbers for all those so-called "half court shots" or that you can only develop your 3pt shot "in-game" claims are definitely suspect for biased arguments though.

Just take a look at the his shot tracking (not perfect but the best way for a person that isn´t watching his games).

30-34ft 1/9
35-39ft 2/3
>40ft 0/12
That´s about 0.5 really long 3s per game. No one attempted more 40+ ft attempts this season.

Now take a look at the shot clock situations. (less than 4s):
23/83
Most of them are unassisted. Meaning that he takes about two last second 3s per game. That´s the second highest volume in the league after Harden.

He is 16/30 from the corner this season. Basically only takes 3s from the top of the key even though he seems to be really good in catch and shoot situations in the corner...was the same in spain.
His shot selection might not be the greatest but considering the degree of difficulty and the volume his percentages are solid. Probably would be closer to 38-40% without the last second shots and heaves.

[Golden Knight]

Deandre Ayton not jeaulous at Luka Doncic... wishes him the best & says 'Luka is my guy'!

Weren't they roommates or something during Rookie Transition Program? and share the same agency as well?

[Oscar9992]

Deandre Ayton not jeaulous at Luka Doncic... wishes him the best & says 'Luka is my guy'!

Weren't they roommates or something during Rookie Transition Program? and share the same agency as well?

I don't know about this, but they followed eachother on social media long before tha 2018 Draft... They kinda admired eachoter lol

[enigmatics]

Just take a look at the his shot tracking (not perfect but the best way for a person that isn´t watching his games).

30-34ft 1/9
35-39ft 2/3
>40ft 0/12
That´s about 0.5 really long 3s per game. No one attempted more 40+ ft attempts this season.

Now take a look at the shot clock situations. (less than 4s):
23/83
Most of them are unassisted. Meaning that he takes about two last second 3s per game. That´s the second highest volume in the league after Harden.

He is 16/30 from the corner this season. Basically only takes 3s from the top of the key even though he seems to be really good in catch and shoot situations in the corner...was the same in spain.
His shot selection might not be the greatest but considering the degree of difficulty and the volume his percentages are solid. Probably would be closer to 38-40% without the last second shots and heaves.

You cleared up a little bit of confusion here in that when the other poster brought up last second shots - I thought he meant end of game situations. It had not occurred to me the ones deep into a shot clock.

I still find it hard to absolve him given that 4 seconds is an eternity to get a shot off and part of the reason he has so many of those attempts is because he is so ball dominant. I agree 100% with your comment about his shot selection, which is why I've said a few times prior in this thread that he needs to dial it down.

[enigmatics]

I wonder how you call people, who don’t understand how stats work and how small sample is 8 games?

From the season opener thru November 30 he shot 38.21% from 3's. Oh wait, you told me with %'s I have to "round" to use them so 38%.

Since you also determine which sample sizes are valid - does that work better for you? Still declining any way you want to slice it.

[enigmatics]

Deandre Ayton not jeaulous at Luka Doncic... wishes him the best & says 'Luka is my guy'!

This isn't directed at you, but trying to compare these two is an exercise in stupidity.