What are your expectations for Fultz

[BadHombre]

So I feel like I should clarify the options a bit more, or at least how I intended them.

I compiled the stats for all 30 starting PGs in the league. This doesn't account for teams running 2 PG's like Portland, Boston, New Orleans etc, and it doesn't account for the backup PGs who should be starters like Rose, Dinwiddie, etc.

Here are the present starting PGs in the league:

Trae Young
D’Angelo Russell
Kyrie Irving
Kemba Walker
Kris Dunn
Collin Sexton
Jalen Brunson
Jamal Murray
Reggie Jackson
Steph Curry
Chris Paul
Darren Collison
Patrick Beverley
Lonzo Ball
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
Jeff Teague
Eric Bledsoe
Elfrid Payton
Dennis Smith Jr
Russell Westbrook
DJ Augustin
Ben Simmons
De’Anthony Melton
Damian Lillard
Derrick White
De’Aaron Fox
Kyle Lowry
Ricky Rubio
John Wall


I collected their basic counting stats, along with their TS%, DFG% and AST Points Generated (I like that better than straight assists).

The averages for those numbers amongst these 30 PGs are:

SCORING
PPG: 15.6ppg
FG%: 44%
3FG%: 34%
TS%: 54%
FTA: 3.4

ASSISTS
APG: 6
AST PTS: 14.9

TOTAL POINTS GENERATED (PPG + AST PTS GEN): 30.4

DEFENSE
RPG: 4.1
STL: 1.2
DFG%: +0.7 (meaning their opponent shoots +0.7% better against them)


I then ranked each player for each of these categories, and then averaged their ranks. The top 15 PGs were (in order):

Damian Lillard
Steph Curry
Kyrie Irving
Kemba Walker
Ben Simmons
Mike Conley
De’Aaron Fox
Russell Westbrook
Kyle Lowry
Chris Paul
John Wall
Eric Bledsoe
D’Angelo Russell
Jamal Murray
Patrick Beverley

Bottom 15 were:

Jeff Teague
Kris Dunn
Darren Collison
Derrick White
Trae Young
DJ Augustin
Goran Dragic
Lonzo Ball
Dennis Smith Jr
Ricky Rubio
Elfrid Payton
Reggie Jackson
Collin Sexton
Jalen Brunson
De’Anthony Melton

So, from these rankings, an 'average' starting PG would be Patrick Beverley or Jeff Teague. Here are their basic stats. Beverley ranks surprisingly high because his 3P% is 5th best amongst this lot, and his DFG% is the best, at a strong -4.4%. Teague's numbers are generally close to the averages across the board.

Top 10 is where most of the superstar/star names are. 10-15 would be the 'above average' PGs, but above average would make them a top 15 PG in the league (excluding the PGs mentioned at the top).

I'd consider a 'capable starting PG' to fall anywhere between 12-20, but with that in mind, the only PG's on that list I would consider incapable are Brunson and Melton.

Looking at the results of the poll so far, it seems like expectations are pretty high for Fultz on the board. 58% of votes so far expect him to be above average or better. That's a pretty high bar to set for a kid who's had significant issues to start his professional career. It might be worth tempering those expectations.

[fendilim]

So I feel like I should clarify the options a bit more, or at least how I intended them.

I compiled the stats for all 30 starting PGs in the league. This doesn't account for teams running 2 PG's like Portland, Boston, New Orleans etc, and it doesn't account for the backup PGs who should be starters like Rose, Dinwiddie, etc.

Here are the present starting PGs in the league:

Trae Young
D’Angelo Russell
Kyrie Irving
Kemba Walker
Kris Dunn
Collin Sexton
Jalen Brunson
Jamal Murray
Reggie Jackson
Steph Curry
Chris Paul
Darren Collison
Patrick Beverley
Lonzo Ball
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
Jeff Teague
Eric Bledsoe
Elfrid Payton
Dennis Smith Jr
Russell Westbrook
DJ Augustin
Ben Simmons
De’Anthony Melton
Damian Lillard
Derrick White
De’Aaron Fox
Kyle Lowry
Ricky Rubio
John Wall


I collected their basic counting stats, along with their TS%, DFG% and AST Points Generated (I like that better than straight assists).

The averages for those numbers amongst these 30 PGs are:

SCORING
PPG: 15.6ppg
FG%: 44%
3FG%: 34%
TS%: 54%
FTA: 3.4

ASSISTS
APG: 6
AST PTS: 14.9

TOTAL POINTS GENERATED (PPG + AST PTS GEN): 30.4

DEFENSE
RPG: 4.1
STL: 1.2
DFG%: +0.7 (meaning their opponent shoots +0.7% better against them)


I then ranked each player for each of these categories, and then averaged their ranks. The top 15 PGs were (in order):

Damian Lillard
Steph Curry
Kyrie Irving
Kemba Walker
Ben Simmons
Mike Conley
De’Aaron Fox
Russell Westbrook
Kyle Lowry
Chris Paul
John Wall
Eric Bledsoe
D’Angelo Russell
Jamal Murray
Patrick Beverley

Bottom 15 were:

Jeff Teague
Kris Dunn
Darren Collison
Derrick White
Trae Young
DJ Augustin
Goran Dragic
Lonzo Ball
Dennis Smith Jr
Ricky Rubio
Elfrid Payton
Reggie Jackson
Collin Sexton
Jalen Brunson
De’Anthony Melton

So, from these rankings, an 'average' starting PG would be Patrick Beverley or Jeff Teague. Here are their basic stats. Beverley ranks surprisingly high because his 3P% is 5th best amongst this lot, and his DFG% is the best, at a strong -4.4%. Teague's numbers are generally close to the averages across the board.

Top 10 is where most of the superstar/star names are. 10-15 would be the 'above average' PGs, but above average would make them a top 15 PG in the league (excluding the PGs mentioned at the top).

I'd consider a 'capable starting PG' to fall anywhere between 12-20, but with that in mind, the only PG's on that list I would consider incapable are Brunson and Melton.

Looking at the results of the poll so far, it seems like expectations are pretty high for Fultz on the board. 58% of votes so far expect him to be above average or better. That's a pretty high bar to set for a kid who's had significant issues to start his professional career. It might be worth tempering those expectations.

when i look at fultz performance, it seems to me that only his shooting stroke is bothered by the injury. He is still good finishing around the rim, and even doing chasedowns. I just hope he can come back healthy. This is the most important thing.

If he can do that, then i think he’ll be a an average starter because his court vision and shot create are up there, imo.

[MoMM]

So I feel like I should clarify the options a bit more, or at least how I intended them.

I compiled the stats for all 30 starting PGs in the league. This doesn't account for teams running 2 PG's like Portland, Boston, New Orleans etc, and it doesn't account for the backup PGs who should be starters like Rose, Dinwiddie, etc.

Here are the present starting PGs in the league:

Trae Young
D’Angelo Russell
Kyrie Irving
Kemba Walker
Kris Dunn
Collin Sexton
Jalen Brunson
Jamal Murray
Reggie Jackson
Steph Curry
Chris Paul
Darren Collison
Patrick Beverley
Lonzo Ball
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
Jeff Teague
Eric Bledsoe
Elfrid Payton
Dennis Smith Jr
Russell Westbrook
DJ Augustin
Ben Simmons
De’Anthony Melton
Damian Lillard
Derrick White
De’Aaron Fox
Kyle Lowry
Ricky Rubio
John Wall


I collected their basic counting stats, along with their TS%, DFG% and AST Points Generated (I like that better than straight assists).

The averages for those numbers amongst these 30 PGs are:

SCORING
PPG: 15.6ppg
FG%: 44%
3FG%: 34%
TS%: 54%
FTA: 3.4

ASSISTS
APG: 6
AST PTS: 14.9

TOTAL POINTS GENERATED (PPG + AST PTS GEN): 30.4

DEFENSE
RPG: 4.1
STL: 1.2
DFG%: +0.7 (meaning their opponent shoots +0.7% better against them)


I then ranked each player for each of these categories, and then averaged their ranks. The top 15 PGs were (in order):

Damian Lillard
Steph Curry
Kyrie Irving
Kemba Walker
Ben Simmons
Mike Conley
De’Aaron Fox
Russell Westbrook
Kyle Lowry
Chris Paul
John Wall
Eric Bledsoe
D’Angelo Russell
Jamal Murray
Patrick Beverley

Bottom 15 were:

Jeff Teague
Kris Dunn
Darren Collison
Derrick White
Trae Young
DJ Augustin
Goran Dragic
Lonzo Ball
Dennis Smith Jr
Ricky Rubio
Elfrid Payton
Reggie Jackson
Collin Sexton
Jalen Brunson
De’Anthony Melton

So, from these rankings, an 'average' starting PG would be Patrick Beverley or Jeff Teague. Here are their basic stats. Beverley ranks surprisingly high because his 3P% is 5th best amongst this lot, and his DFG% is the best, at a strong -4.4%. Teague's numbers are generally close to the averages across the board.

Top 10 is where most of the superstar/star names are. 10-15 would be the 'above average' PGs, but above average would make them a top 15 PG in the league (excluding the PGs mentioned at the top).

I'd consider a 'capable starting PG' to fall anywhere between 12-20, but with that in mind, the only PG's on that list I would consider incapable are Brunson and Melton.

Looking at the results of the poll so far, it seems like expectations are pretty high for Fultz on the board. 58% of votes so far expect him to be above average or better. That's a pretty high bar to set for a kid who's had significant issues to start his professional career. It might be worth tempering those expectations.

Nice research. Where would Fultz PER36 minutes stats rank on it? His PER36 are 13/6/5, not that bad, but his PER is only 10, so I think it would rank really low.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fultzma01.html

[Simmons25]

Suprised 76ers fan still didn't brought up motorcycle crash as probably most logiacl explanation of everything that happend with him.

- Him falling off bike would die lot of missing bridges in story like:
- how he got TOS ( syndrome that is common with driving accidents, especially motorcycle
- his love for "dangerous" driving ,as he said bikes are his first love over basketball and he even said he has scares to prove it
- his over protective mother as he tends to be wreckless
- his agent lying about what really happen to not be penalized for not doing his part of a contract (CBA does not allow nba players to drive motorcycle or ingage in any other dangerous activity without being penalized )
- his brother and "draining fluids from shoulder" that could simply be draining hematome

I believe the motorcycle accident is the most logical explanation for sure. Your points you made are all valid and probably true. I believe he was injured.. and it wasn't just a case of the yips. Having said that I had Fultz back right up until a few months ago when his agent decided to pull Fultz out of games (as he was destroying his value) and go doctor shopping. That's when I couldn't back the guy anymore and wanted him gone.

I think you missed one point in the list, which is probably the biggest issue that he has (apart from his protective mother... who is a borderline nutter). Fultz has serious mental health issues. He has hinted at it several times with posts he has put up and then deleted. The kid suffers from depression and anxiety issues... and that is going to be his biggest hurdle to jump over. I can't see him ever becoming a star in this league.

[bargnanimvp]

You don't have to have an accident to get TOS, there was an article when the diagnosis happened from Udoh who had the same issue that just started in college. He didn't tell anyone and tried to keep it secret and when he did tell some people they didn't believe him. He said he would lose all feeling in his shooting arm randomly.

Any way i think the way Philly handled Fultz and discussed his issues was pretty bad and helped cause the rift/hurt his confidence/make him upset with the team. I'm interested to see how he goes on a new team that has acknowledged his issues exist and pledged to help work through them.

Expectations will depend on his health, if he can sort out his shoulder issues he will see his production increase substantially. There was another article comparing philly's pick and roll plays to orlando's and we run far more which is what his game was suited to in college. If he can't get health it'll be a problem because he needs the jump shot to fit with this offence.

[Skybox]

I expect he’ll sit out this year, maybe play a couple games or not, get comfortable
Next year, he’ll play like a top rookie, with success breeding confidence leading to more success.
East All-Star the year after(2021)...possibly joined by AG who benefits most from his penetration

I really believe things just snowballed in PHI and we just won the lottery

[Simmons25]

Any way i think the way Philly handled Fultz and discussed his issues was pretty bad and helped cause the rift/hurt his confidence/make him upset with the team. I'm interested to see how he goes on a new team that has acknowledged his issues exist and pledged to help work through them.

Interesting. How did you think Philly handle it poorly? The team supported Fultz and cheered him on so much that it was basically like he was on the team as part of a "Make a Wish" participant than an actual player. Got way more playing time than he deserved. Was given basically as much time as he wanted to get his head/body right.

If there were any issues it was from his mother and agent who continually put out misinformation that contradicted what the club was saying. Like the time Fultz agent told Adrian Wojranowski that Fultz had fluid drained from his shoulder... just before the 76ers released a statement saying Fultz had a cortisone injection in his shoulder which ended up conflicting with what Wojranowski said. His agent then had to come out and "clarify" it and say it was a cortisone injection.

Ask yourself why his agent was out there behind the scenes leaking and spreading misinformation. As Joel Embiid said in an interview... a lot of people around Fultz that are supposed to support him don't have his back. Eg: His agents and his mother.

76ers have done a fair few things wrong in the past but the way they handled Fultz is not one of them. The only wrong thing they did was play him more than he deserved... to the detriment of the team.