2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[shakes0]

Trae’s first 28 games:
15.5 points, 7.2 assists, 2.7 rebounds on .377/.237/.784 (29.3 minutes per game)

Trae’s last 27 games:
18.1 points, 7.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds on .445/.393/.813 (30.5 minutes per game)

No ones saying Luka won’t win ROY but that doesn’t mean Trae doesn’t look like a potential perennial all star.

Luka is difference maker and Trae is just putting stats on bad team. But majority Hawks fans cant tell that apart given last difference maker they had was Dominique.

Good for Trae tho!

Great take

Last 27 games:

Dallas 11-16
Atlanta: 12-15


Yep, Luka doing it for a "good" team while Trae doing it for a bottom feeder.

[Bob8]

trae will easily be an all star. how can anyone not see that

Funny enough that nobody even mentioned, who will or won’t be all star. We were talking about last month stats, comparing players at the moment. And what even means to be all star? Not much.

[Bob8]

Trae’s first 28 games:
15.5 points, 7.2 assists, 2.7 rebounds on .377/.237/.784 (29.3 minutes per game)

Trae’s last 27 games:
18.1 points, 7.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds on .445/.393/.813 (30.5 minutes per game)

No ones saying Luka won’t win ROY but that doesn’t mean Trae doesn’t look like a potential perennial all star.

Luka is difference maker and Trae is just putting stats on bad team. But majority Hawks fans cant tell that apart given last difference maker they had was Dominique.

Good for Trae tho!

Great take

Last 27 games:

Dallas 11-16
Atlanta: 12-15


Yep, Luka doing it for a "good" team while Trae doing it for a bottom feeder.

I love this innovative use of stats. You just take some timeline that is good for your purpose and here you go. You would get even better results, if you have taken last 27 - last 3.

[shakes0]

Luka is difference maker and Trae is just putting stats on bad team. But majority Hawks fans cant tell that apart given last difference maker they had was Dominique.

Good for Trae tho!

Great take

Last 27 games:

Dallas 11-16
Atlanta: 12-15


Yep, Luka doing it for a "good" team while Trae doing it for a bottom feeder.

I love this innovative use of stats. You just take some timeline that is good for your purpose and here you go. You would get even better results, if you have taken last 27 - last 3.

just using the 27 game parameter given in original post. I took issue with uninformed poster's comments that Trae is piling up stats on a bad team while implying that Luka is getting his stats on a good team. Ove the past 27 games when Trae's stats have improved quite a bit his team has won more games than Dallas during that span.

Posters comment about Trae piling up stats for a bad team is ignorant at best.

[kg01]

Trae’s first 28 games:
15.5 points, 7.2 assists, 2.7 rebounds on .377/.237/.784 (29.3 minutes per game)

Trae’s last 27 games:
18.1 points, 7.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds on .445/.393/.813 (30.5 minutes per game)

No ones saying Luka won’t win ROY but that doesn’t mean Trae doesn’t look like a potential perennial all star.

Luka is difference maker and Trae is just putting stats on bad team. But majority Hawks fans cant tell that apart given last difference maker they had was Dominique.

Good for Trae tho!

Great take

Last 27 games:

Dallas 11-16
Atlanta: 12-15

Yep, Luka doing it for a "good" team while Trae doing it for a bottom feeder.

It's not even worth your time to respond to a "take" like that.

[shakes0]

Luka is difference maker and Trae is just putting stats on bad team. But majority Hawks fans cant tell that apart given last difference maker they had was Dominique.

Good for Trae tho!

Great take

Last 27 games:

Dallas 11-16
Atlanta: 12-15

Yep, Luka doing it for a "good" team while Trae doing it for a bottom feeder.

It's not even worth your time to respond to a "take" like that.

you are correct Kg01, but sometimes I just can't resist the low hanging fruit

[Buzzard]

No they didn’t draft him for being Beverly, but they don’t want for him to be new IT either. Sure advanced stats are not perfect, but if the difference is that big that probably means something. Or maybe we must just discard anything, which is not raw stats? And if you’re using raw stats to prove something, you for sure cannot use arbitrary 30 days, which is by “accident” his best, because this timeline is not representative and data is too small. The only thing you can prove with this sample is that he had good last month. Or you want to tell me he’s better player than LeBron, because LeBron had bad last month?

I am just trying to show a trend Bob. Efficiency is the new end all be all. It is why coaches are having centers shoot more threes than at anytime in their careers.

Trae has four stats that he must constantly improve: PTS. eFG%, AST, and TO. He does that, he will be doing the things he was drafted for. Since his horrible 16 games in November, he has been improving. That is a trend; and only time will tell if he continues or not.

I am not saying anything more or less. I think you are TBH.

If you wanted to show the trend, you should have compared Trae in the start of the season and Trae in last month and not comparing last month of Trae with Luka. And we wouldn’t have had this conversation.

The tend comparison is because this is a ROY discussion; and they are the two players mentioned in this discussion who were swapped for each other. It is not to hurt anyone's feelings; just a ROY discussion.

[enigmatics]

To say that he should stop shooting 3s and stop developping is outside game is ludicrous.

False. Nobody said, that certainly not myself but it's clear that's the bizarre conversation going on in your head.

But jacking up 8-10 three's a game? Ya no, hard pass.

[Bob8]

I am just trying to show a trend Bob. Efficiency is the new end all be all. It is why coaches are having centers shoot more threes than at anytime in their careers.

Trae has four stats that he must constantly improve: PTS. eFG%, AST, and TO. He does that, he will be doing the things he was drafted for. Since his horrible 16 games in November, he has been improving. That is a trend; and only time will tell if he continues or not.

I am not saying anything more or less. I think you are TBH.

If you wanted to show the trend, you should have compared Trae in the start of the season and Trae in last month and not comparing last month of Trae with Luka. And we wouldn’t have had this conversation.

The tend comparison is because this is a ROY discussion; and they are the two players mentioned in this discussion who were swapped for each other. It is not to hurt anyone's feelings; just a ROY discussion.

You didn’t compare a trend but last month of this 2 players using raw and numerical stats, because you don’t trust advanced stats.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

I like Bagley and he's looked even better than I thought...but kind of funny that he puts up 30/7 and suddenly it's, "Bagley has a higher ceiling than Luka!" Meanwhile on the same day, Luka puts up 28/9/6 and 13 in the 4th, including what would be the go-ahead winner, yet that's supposed to be no big deal (which, in a way, it is since he does it so often...)

[Johnny Firpo]

trae will easily be an all star. how can anyone not see that

Because the player they like can't be good unless they **** on every other rookie taken over him or in the case of Trae they have to **** on the rookie they were traded for. It's less about liking Luka and more about...

Nonsense. Hawks fans doing this crap way more than Luka fans. It's not even Doncic/Mavs fans who mention Young, most of the time. I personally only wrote good things about Young, I think he is a tremendous talent, and I know I'm not alone with this among Mavs fans. The same cannot be said about kg01 and King Ken, and I almost spat out my beverage when the former had the audacity to imply that Doncic fans are doing that crap, when it's actually the opposite. We are happy with Luka and we think Young is a good young talent, and we cannot do anything about neutral fans and the media bashing him and the Hawks, but when they do that, it would be amazing if you wouldn't run to this thread to create something from nothing. Also, Hawks fans, don't hate Luka, what does he have to do with the narrative? Nothing, hate the neutral fans and the media, not him.

[Johnny Firpo]

But jacking up 8-10 three's a game? Ya no, hard pass.

Why would that be a bad thing? That's the best shot in basketball. Luka is already doing a good job of finding good shots in terms of analytical basketball. He usually either takes a three or gets to the rim. That's the smart thing to do.

[TheFinishSniper]

I like Bagley and he's looked even better than I thought...but kind of funny that he puts up 30/7 and suddenly it's, "Bagley has a higher ceiling than Luka!" Meanwhile on the same day, Luka puts up 28/9/6 and 13 in the 4th, including what would be the go-ahead winner, yet that's supposed to be no big deal (which, in a way, it is since he does it so often...)

People think because Luka is already such good player he wont improve further. And because other players like Marvin and Trae are more raw they think they have higher ceiling. It's just ridiculous presumption. I really feel for stupid GM's in this league and stupid fans too. Same reason why Luka gone 5th. This is guy who go head to head with MVP Westbrook as what 17 years old?

Whoever watched Luka play at least once should have know he was undisputed #1 player in this draft class. What he is doing for me is basically expected. Because NBA is soft, softer than european basketball.

Never imagined that day would come given I was early 90's kid, but here it is. That guy is pure bread winner. No empty fake stats. And advanced stats confirms it. Hell, 4 months into season Dallas knew what they have they just mortaged their whole "future" to bring him a guy they can parry him for next 10-15 years.

[Johnny Firpo]

I like Bagley and he's looked even better than I thought...but kind of funny that he puts up 30/7 and suddenly it's, "Bagley has a higher ceiling than Luka!" Meanwhile on the same day, Luka puts up 28/9/6 and 13 in the 4th, including what would be the go-ahead winner, yet that's supposed to be no big deal (which, in a way, it is since he does it so often...)

People think because Luka is already such good player he wont improve further. And because other players like Marvin and Trae are more raw they think they have higher ceiling. It's just ridiculous presumption. I really feel for stupid GM's in this league and stupid fans too. Same reason why Luka gone 5th. This is guy who go head to head with MVP Westbrook as what 17 years old?

Whoever watched Luka play at least once should have know he was undisputed #1 player in this draft class. What he is doing for me is basically expected. Because NBA is soft, softer than european basketball.

Never imagined that day would come given I was early 90's kid, but here it is. That guy is pure bread winner. No empty fake stats. And advanced stats confirms it. Hell, 4 months into season Dallas knew what they have they just mortaged their whole "future" to bring him a guy they can parry him for next 10-15 years.

Case in point, this is not a Mavs fan, but a neutral fan who has this opinion, so please, don't even start us with this nonsense. We are just as tired of it as you guys are.

[Bob8]

Great take

Last 27 games:

Dallas 11-16
Atlanta: 12-15


Yep, Luka doing it for a "good" team while Trae doing it for a bottom feeder.

I love this innovative use of stats. You just take some timeline that is good for your purpose and here you go. You would get even better results, if you have taken last 27 - last 3.

just using the 27 game parameter given in original post. I took issue with uninformed poster's comments that Trae is piling up stats on a bad team while implying that Luka is getting his stats on a good team. Ove the past 27 games when Trae's stats have improved quite a bit his team has won more games than Dallas during that span.

Posters comment about Trae piling up stats for a bad team is ignorant at best.

And you see nothing wrong that your timeline starts with a day that Hawks went on 5-1 run and Dallas 1-5? A little different starting day having totally different final result?

[Ball4life32]

I love this innovative use of stats. You just take some timeline that is good for your purpose and here you go. You would get even better results, if you have taken last 27 - last 3.

just using the 27 game parameter given in original post. I took issue with uninformed poster's comments that Trae is piling up stats on a bad team while implying that Luka is getting his stats on a good team. Ove the past 27 games when Trae's stats have improved quite a bit his team has won more games than Dallas during that span.

Posters comment about Trae piling up stats for a bad team is ignorant at best.

And you see nothing wrong that your timeline starts with a day that Hawks went on 5-1 run and Dallas 1-5? A little different starting day having totally different final result?

He used the 27 game sample from my post. I compared Trae’s first 28 games and his last 27 games.

[kg01]

trae will easily be an all star. how can anyone not see that

Because the player they like can't be good unless they **** on every other rookie taken over him or in the case of Trae they have to **** on the rookie they were traded for. It's less about liking Luka and more about...

Nonsense. Hawks fans doing this crap way more than Luka fans. It's not even Doncic/Mavs fans who mention Young, most of the time. I personally only wrote good things about Young, I think he is a tremendous talent, and I know I'm not alone with this among Mavs fans. The same cannot be said about kg01 and King Ken, and I almost spat out my beverage when the former had the audacity to imply that Doncic fans are doing that crap, when it's actually the opposite. We are happy with Luka and we think Young is a good young talent, and we cannot do anything about neutral fans and the media bashing him and the Hawks, but when they do that, it would be amazing if you wouldn't run to this thread to create something from nothing. Also, Hawks fans, don't hate Luka, what does he have to do with the narrative? Nothing, hate the neutral fans and the media, not him.

Doncic has a cult following. Some of them go overboard. That's what I said. To suggest otherwise is plainly wrong.

[Bob8]

just using the 27 game parameter given in original post. I took issue with uninformed poster's comments that Trae is piling up stats on a bad team while implying that Luka is getting his stats on a good team. Ove the past 27 games when Trae's stats have improved quite a bit his team has won more games than Dallas during that span.

Posters comment about Trae piling up stats for a bad team is ignorant at best.

And you see nothing wrong that your timeline starts with a day that Hawks went on 5-1 run and Dallas 1-5? A little different starting day having totally different final result?

He used the 27 game sample from my post. I compared Trae’s first 28 games and his last 27 games.

And I’m sure you have started with Trae’s bad game? Look, you can do whatever you want, but you have to understand that I can do the same for Luka or Mavs. So it’s nothing wrong, when you have only 1 player/team in your preferred timeline, but when you put in another player/team the comparison is not fair anymore, because you deliberately has chosen the timeline which suits your purpose.

[enigmatics]

Whoever watched Luka play at least once should have know he was undisputed #1 player in this draft class. What he is doing for me is basically expected. Because NBA is soft, softer than european basketball.

Funny you mention that.

It really had not occurred to me during the draft, but it's been made abundantly clear this year. All the touch foul calls and the 140+ point games for teams. The league is as soft as Charmin right now. Ball dominant players are thriving on it.

I mean in what other year would you see a team be OK with a player taking 85 straight unassisted shots?

[Ball4life32]

And you see nothing wrong that your timeline starts with a day that Hawks went on 5-1 run and Dallas 1-5? A little different starting day having totally different final result?

He used the 27 game sample from my post. I compared Trae’s first 28 games and his last 27 games.

And I’m sure you have started with Trae’s bad game? Look, you can do whatever you want, but you have to understand that I can do the same for Luka or Mavs. So it’s nothing wrong, when you have only 1 player/team in your preferred timeline, but when you put in another player/team the comparison is not fair anymore, because you deliberately has chosen the timeline which suits your purpose.

I was comparing how Trae has improved through out the 1st and 2nd half of the season so far. Had nothing to do with Luka or the Mavs.