What can be done about the number of buyouts?

[becorz]

I am of the opinion that buyouts are becoming too commonplace in the NBA. Buyout players are actually improving the best teams at little cost while smaller teams are being forced to lose some pretty good players because it "is the right thing to do for your veteran players". A team like the Hawks should not be losing a good player like Jeremy Lin so he can sign with the best team in the east for very little money, for example. That just doesn't make sense to me. Good teams should not get better for free and bad teams shouldn't be tanking by giving up the players they have.

Do you all think this is as big of an issue as I do?

What steps do you think the league can take to fix the issue?

One thing I thought of was not allowing teams to save small amounts of money when they cut a player. For example, I don't think that Lin should be able to give back like $50,000 back to the Hawks to obtain a buyout. The Hawks should be forced to pay full Lin price. But I think if the Thunder and Alex Abrines want to agree to a buyout where Abrines doesn't earn the remainder of his contract, that is fine. But I don't think that would work entirely because I think the Hawks would still release Lin at full price, simply because they want to do right for the veteran.

What do you all think?

(Mods, if you think this is better off in the general board, please move. But I felt it belonged here?)

[youngcrev]

It seems to work for everyone involved. I don't have an issue with it.

[jbk1234]

People overrate the quality of players bought out IMO. I remember when the Cavs got D. Will and everyone thought it was this great coup. He got cooked in the post season. Usually, if it's a guy you have any interest in re-signing, you're not buying him ouy.

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[Kilo]

Everybody wins - team buying out player saves hundreds of thousands, team buying gets an asset for relatively cheap and player goes from a losing team to a contender while said losing team gets to play a younger player ROS to season what they have while probably losing more games as a result (ie tanking).

All that being said, I don't like it and think the league should step in. I mean they stepped in before to stopped the cooked deals where Team A would trade Team B a player to make salaries match with the agreement that Team B would waive that player and then that player would go back to Team A.

Raps would be in a huge pickle with FVV being lost and just trading Delon - but are rescued by Atlanta deciding to buy out Lin afterall. Funny how that works.

[chrbal]

What player that’s been bought out is really that great of an add? Most of these guys are low level starters or role players in their last year of their deal. Wes Matthews, Wayne Ellington, etc., these are the best of them

[Prospect Dong]

Jaric made a pretty big difference to the 6ers last year. As a fan of a team that never really gets any consideration from ring chasers, even when we're pretty good, I'd like to stop it or at least reduce it. Glamour teams shouldn't be able to sign guys for free who can then swing a close playoff series. They certainly shouldn't be able to replace the pieces they traded away at the deadline.

Deadline ring chasers should count for some amount against the cap, and/or there should be a maximum of one per team over a multi-year period, and/or there should be formalised bidding for them (2nd rounders, cap space) rather than them flocking to refill the benches of the usual suspects.

[Monky15]

If teams don't buyout these vets then their just gonna clog up a roster spot collect dnp-cd. Players don't want to risk injury playing for a losing team that probably won't re-sign them. Teams want a free roster spot to kick the tires on other prospects and to help the tank.
Now if the Knicks had cut DAJ or other teams had done similar then it starts being a problem as your handing a key starter to another team for nothing.

[loserX]

Off the top of my head, what if the vet min exception was not available after the trade deadline? If you want to add a player by buyout, you have to have kept one of your larger exceptions. Otherwise you have to trade for them like everyone else.

[the_process]

The bad teams like being able to save a little money and the good teams like being able to add help after the deadline at a low cost.

And look at where these guys are going, none have gone to a glamour destination. They're going where they can get the most PT so they can try to get a better contract in the summer.

It's a win-win for the teams and the players. Buyouts will continue as is IMO.

[HartfordWhalers]

Off the top of my head, what if the vet min exception was not available after the trade deadline? If you want to add a player by buyout, you have to have kept one of your larger exceptions. Otherwise you have to trade for them like everyone else.

It is often literally the only way to add a player of any kind if a team suffers an injury etc after the trade deadline. The min exception is how a Gary Payton II gets signed to whatever team signed him last. I think your solution would be akin to taking all the air out of the room to stop Bob from accounting from farting. It would work in a strict sense, but everyone would suffocate which *might* be worse.

[Prospect Dong]

Off the top of my head, what if the vet min exception was not available after the trade deadline? If you want to add a player by buyout, you have to have kept one of your larger exceptions. Otherwise you have to trade for them like everyone else.

It is often literally the only way to add a player of any kind if a team suffers an injury etc after the trade deadline. The min exception is how a Gary Payton II gets signed to whatever team signed him last. I think your solution would be akin to taking all the air out of the room to stop Bob from accounting from farting. It would work in a strict sense, but everyone would suffocate which *might* be worse.

How about it doesn't apply to players who are still under contract with another team? That means you can pick up fringe NBA players from D-league or 10 day contracts or whatever, but not other teams' cuts, unless you've held on to cap space or a limited exception.

[Prospect Dong]

Or the league could just be a bit more vigorous in using the injured player exception than they currently are - then basically any season-ending injury would let you sign a cut player.

[HartfordWhalers]

Off the top of my head, what if the vet min exception was not available after the trade deadline? If you want to add a player by buyout, you have to have kept one of your larger exceptions. Otherwise you have to trade for them like everyone else.

It is often literally the only way to add a player of any kind if a team suffers an injury etc after the trade deadline. The min exception is how a Gary Payton II gets signed to whatever team signed him last. I think your solution would be akin to taking all the air out of the room to stop Bob from accounting from farting. It would work in a strict sense, but everyone would suffocate which *might* be worse.

How about it doesn't apply to players who are still under contract with another team? That means you can pick up fringe NBA players from D-league or 10 day contracts or whatever, but not other teams' cuts, unless you've held on to cap space or a limited exception.

I think the route is moving the playoff eligible deadline for cut players even further forward, although that does push this stuff even earlier.

[becorz]

I think that the NBA enforcing it's anti-tanking policy with Davis (and it looks like Parsons?) is a step in the right direction, but I really do think this buyout stuff needs to be looked at.

And look at where these guys are going, none have gone to a glamour destination. They're going where they can get the most PT so they can try to get a better contract in the summer.

I guess this is true, but if I am a team like the Nets or the Hornets, I would be livid that Toronto got Lin, or that the Pacers got Matthews. These players are not in their prime, but they are still good enough to swing a playoff game. Or look at Bellini and Ilyasova last year. These players are rotation worthy and they are being acquired for nothing.

Off the top of my head, what if the vet min exception was not available after the trade deadline? If you want to add a player by buyout, you have to have kept one of your larger exceptions. Otherwise you have to trade for them like everyone else.

It is often literally the only way to add a player of any kind if a team suffers an injury etc after the trade deadline. The min exception is how a Gary Payton II gets signed to whatever team signed him last. I think your solution would be akin to taking all the air out of the room to stop Bob from accounting from farting. It would work in a strict sense, but everyone would suffocate which *might* be worse.

I like the idea, but it does restrict end of bench player movement too much.

Another weird idea I had was some sort of trade exemption where each player gets one player that they get to trade while breaking the rules. This idea needs a lot of work, but if Atlanta was able to do something around the cap with Lin's $15m trade value, maybe they could have traded him to a team that might have needed him, like the Kings, who could have offered more than Toronto could have. Something would have to be done cap/tax wise (maybe allow ATL to eat a portion of salary). Maybe limit this to players with less than a year left on their contract? And only in a player for pick type swap? I think there would have to be more to it (a player like Tobias Harris who would be an impending FA would be an issue here).

Maybe some sort of modified waiver?

[shrink]

The problem as I see it is two-fold.

First, the league tries to use a salary cap to create parity in the league. When a contender can acquire a vet 5th starter, or 20 minute rotation player for the minimum, you are disrupting the parity of the league. Ilyasova and Belinelli didn’t get vet min deals in free agency, and didn’t produce like vet min players when PHI acquired them.

Second, the league uses trading as a mechanism to allow teams who are out of the playoff race to trade these players for future assets, to help that parity in the future, and give fans of those teams something to look forward to. When players and teams know they are going to be bought out, and often the destination they are likely to land, there is no incentive for a win-now team to give up substantial assets in a trade, especially for a helpful expiring deal. If a future second rounder is all you can get for a starter, parity shifts. In addition, a buy out guarantees zero production from the remaining portion of that salary - another pain for the fans of that team.

Is it too extreme to say that if a player signs a contract for a team through a season, then they shouldn’t be allowed to sign with a different team within that timeframe? A player can be offered a buy out, but if he agrees, he has to stay home until the buy out is over.

[jayjaysee]

If bad teams traded their good bench players, this would be solved right?

Like NY should have flipped Wes, Atl should have flipped Lin.. Same with Ellington..

Kieff maybe is a bit different since he ?is/was? injured..

But I also think their impact is typically minimal so it isn’t a huge issue.

If Wes got flipped to Minnesota, he’d still be there. Or if Lin got flipped to Sac or Washington or Dallas, he’d still be there. Ellington should be in OKC or Utah..

I think OP is looking too strongly at the good teams for taking okay players for free instead of blaming the team that didn’t take the value they could get. If Phoenix had called Utah and asked what goes into an Ellington/Udoh swap.. Would Phoenix be in a very-marginally better spot right now? Yeah. Maybe only a late 2nd, maybe even let Utah put protection on it, but so what. Or even just the money NY would have saved by flipping Wes for Bayless+Tolliver or Kostas+Ben..

[the_process]

The problem as I see it is two-fold.

First, the league tries to use a salary cap to create parity in the league. When a contender can acquire a vet 5th starter, or 20 minute rotation player for the minimum, you are disrupting the parity of the league.

Second, the league has trading as a mechanism to allow teams who are out of the playoff race to trade these players for future assets, to help that parity in the future, and give fans of those teams something to look forward to. When players and teams know they are going to be bought out, and often the destination they are likely to land, there is no incentive for a win-now team to give up substantial assets, especially for a helpful expiring deal. If a future second rounder is all you can get for a starter, parity shifts. In addition, a buy out guarantees zero production from the remaining portion of that salary - another pain for the fans of that team.

Is it too extreme to say that if a player signs a contract for a team through a season, then they shouldn’t be allowed to sign with a different team within that timeframe?

What if the team wants to release the player for whatever reason? Now the player has no team and can't sign elsewhere.

You guys, worrying about the buyout matket is akin to Silver "fixing tanking" by changing the lottery. You're creating a new host of problems where there weren't any in the first place.

[shrink]

The problem as I see it is two-fold.

First, the league tries to use a salary cap to create parity in the league. When a contender can acquire a vet 5th starter, or 20 minute rotation player for the minimum, you are disrupting the parity of the league.

Second, the league has trading as a mechanism to allow teams who are out of the playoff race to trade these players for future assets, to help that parity in the future, and give fans of those teams something to look forward to. When players and teams know they are going to be bought out, and often the destination they are likely to land, there is no incentive for a win-now team to give up substantial assets, especially for a helpful expiring deal. If a future second rounder is all you can get for a starter, parity shifts. In addition, a buy out guarantees zero production from the remaining portion of that salary - another pain for the fans of that team.

Is it too extreme to say that if a player signs a contract for a team through a season, then they shouldn’t be allowed to sign with a different team within that timeframe?

What if the team wants to release the player for whatever reason? Now the player has no team and can't sign elsewhere.

I have no problem with that, since he chose to sign that contract (he’s a grown up) to provide services to that team for that time period. This should be a part of the system since players get fully guaranteed contracts — they get paid no matter what.

[The Beam King]

I'm with you becorz.indonr like it. It's more of the rich get richer scheme that creates a competitive imbalance and then exacerbates it.

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[the_process]

If bad teams traded their good bench players, this would be solved right?

Like NY should have flipped Wes, Atl should have flipped Lin.. Same with Ellington..

Kieff maybe is a bit different since he ?is/was? injured..

But I also think their impact is typically minimal so it isn’t a huge issue.

If Wes got flipped to Minnesota, he’d still be there. Or if Lin got flipped to Sac or Washington or Dallas, he’d still be there. Ellington should be in OKC or Utah..

I think OP is looking too strongly at the good teams for taking okay players for free instead of blaming the team that didn’t take the value they could get. If Phoenix had called Utah and asked what goes into an Ellington/Udoh swap.. Would Phoenix be in a very-marginally better spot right now? Yeah. Maybe only a late 2nd, maybe even let Utah put protection on it, but so what. Or even just the money NY would have saved by flipping Wes for Bayless+Tolliver or Kostas+Ben..

Yep, two years in a row Schlenk in ATL has talked about "nothing was available for our guys without bad money being attached". Yeah, that's kind of a big motivator for trades? And why are you, ATL, hoarding cap space? Pitching KD in the summer, are you?