Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[stoo]

Am I the only one finding ridiculous all these comments about Ayton? Is it that easy to forget he is 19 yo rookie who averages 20/10 or so with no effort? (Or he would average if he gets few more feeds, which is simplest thing to do)

[bwgood77]

Im just finding it really hard to come around on Ayton. I get it, he has a lot of potential. But to me, and to a lot of people, he doesn't seem to really have many, if any, skills that are relevant to the NBA beyond being able to sometimes stay in front of guards 1 on 1 on the perimeter. That means to achieve that potential there is so much work to be done.

He's really skilled but he's also missing some key skills that allows him to chain those offensive weapons he has together. Not being able to put the ball on the court really hurts his offense and not consistently creating space on offense to receive the ball makes it harder for him to get the ball.

He has a lot of work to do which is I think both a surprise to some but also expected by others. There were a lot here that was sure that he'd come in on Day One and be unstoppable because he's bigger, more skilled and more athletic than 95% of his competition in the NBA. Then there were others who were a lot more conservative in their projections of his skill set going into the NBA season. I think those who were a lot more conservative in their projections of him (as I was) and ranked him accordingly among other draft prospects is pretty much seeing what they had expected so I think a lot of us are not really pulling their hairs out about where Ayton is currently. There are also those who were really high on him that still are really high on him who are still confident he'll eventually turn into an all-NBA player.

There are of course the camp (made up of two groups) which consists of those who hated Ayton pre-draft and nothing he's done has changed their mind and also those who loved Ayton pre-draft and his play this season has turned them against him.

Not sure which camp you fall into but regardless, Ayton has A LOT of work to do and I think most can agree he's probably not quite as far along as most had hoped. It's just whether you're optimistic about his development or not going forward. Personally, I'm staying conservative but I don't really have a choice but to root for the guy because if he doesn't turn into an all-NBA level player while Luka is already a near all-star level guy as a 19yo, then we really **** up

Good post. I think the people who watched him the most at UofA are the least surprised by him right now because I would say his strengths and weaknesses are pretty much what they said they would be. I personally find college basketball pretty boring so don't watch a ton but I since i don't I try to pay attention to the opinions of those who do. I take the glass half full approach with him and I'm encouraged by his hands, shooting touch, and the fact that he's rebounding well while still not fundamentally sound on that area which tells me he has good natural rebounding chops and can improve with this some added focus on boxing out. Even the D which was always the most concerning thing to me I have hope because he has the physical tools and has seemed to started to process information better as the season has went on.

You mention the portion of fans who have turned on him, might be that some had too high of exceptions given the faults in his game that were there to see if you looked hard enough. But I kind of suspect it's actually more that some of them really went all in pre-draft for him and against the Doncic crowd and it's more Doncic being good that makes them mad that they might be wrong. If Doncic wasn't in this rookie class I feel like the general feeling around Ayton would be different.

There was at least some contingent of UA fans who watched him that were extremely high on him and blamed any deficiencies on scheme, teammates, etc...(like playing PF he won't get as many blocks at rim, or with subpar perimeter defenders they can get to rim more easily, etc)..

[Frank Lee]

Am I the only one finding ridiculous all these comments about Ayton? Is it that easy to forget he is 19 yo rookie who averages 20/10 or so with no effort? (Or he would average if he gets few more feeds, which is simplest thing to do)

thanks for reminding us

[bwgood77]

Am I the only one finding ridiculous all these comments about Ayton? Is it that easy to forget he is 19 yo rookie who averages 20/10 or so with no effort? (Or he would average if he gets few more feeds, which is simplest thing to do)

It's kind of ridiculous that people ARE down on him, but it was a pretty stacked class with probably a generational talent and another top tier distributor/shooter...now even if not Harden/Curry types, those types of players that thrive today. Scoring, rebounding bigs, without range and subpar defense just don't hold less value.

I see people comparing TS% for a 7'1 guy who stands at the basket vs a wing putting up triple doubles, being a primary initiator getting all his teammates involved, shooting tons of 3s as the primary defensive focus, and saying Ayton is playing better.

But yeah, he's putting up the expected numbers, and shows the same type of intensity he showed in college when people questioned his motor issues at times, so not really any new red flags...he's doing what any smart draft analyst should have expected, and maybe doing a tad better defensively as of late and also looking like a better passer than expected.

[stoo]

Am I the only one finding ridiculous all these comments about Ayton? Is it that easy to forget he is 19 yo rookie who averages 20/10 or so with no effort? (Or he would average if he gets few more feeds, which is simplest thing to do)

It's kind of ridiculous that people ARE down on him, but it was a pretty stacked class with probably a generational talent and another top tier distributor/shooter...now even if not Harden/Curry types, those types of players that thrive today. Scoring, rebounding bigs, without range and subpar defense just don't hold less value.

I see people comparing TS% for a 7'1 guy who stands at the basket vs a wing putting up triple doubles, being a primary initiator getting all his teammates involved, shooting tons of 3s as the primary defensive focus, and saying Ayton is playing better.

But yeah, he's putting up the expected numbers, and shows the same type of intensity he showed in college when people questioned his motor issues at times, so not really any new red flags...he's doing what any smart draft analyst should have expected, and maybe doing a tad better defensively as of late and also looking like a better passer than expected.

he is good... with lot of room to improve.. that's why i said he is a young rookie... But I understand most people are simply impatient... he is still on the road to be a great big and actually never seemed to go off that road..
I also notice people commenting his attitude (off the court)... I don't see a problem with it... Always showing he is a willing learner.... Luckily, it's good for him to trust himself and pros around him and not some of us

[lilfishi22]

It's less his attitude and more just his effort levels. He shows bursts of effort (which fans point to) but if you watch throughout the game, it's very inconsistent. He's gotten better, which is encouraging, but he still ball watches, he's still late on rotations and he still needs his team mates to get him in defensive position during the play.

Honestly, it's not even Ayton I'm worried about. He's going to be a solid C at the very least because of his talent and physical attributes. I'm worried about the Suns. I was listening to the Hardwood Knocks podcast yesterday and it kind of repeated to me what I was already thinking and that was this narrative that Zion shouldn't come to Phoenix because we just don't have a good program for player development and team building. I have to agree with that. Don't get me wrong, I would love Zion on the Suns because his talent could turn this ship around but at the same time, I'm a basketball fan and I want Zion to thrive and grow into a top NBA player. I think we're probably more a hindrance than a enabler for Zion. It wasn't that long ago when we looked at other teams getting a top pick and you're sad that these exciting prospects are going to a dead end franchise. We're fast becoming that franchise that other teams look at as a dead end for exciting prospect.

[bwgood77]

It's less his attitude and more just his effort levels. He shows bursts of effort (which fans point to) but if you watch throughout the game, it's very inconsistent. He's gotten better, which is encouraging, but he still ball watches, he's still late on rotations and he still needs his team mates to get him in defensive position during the play.

Honestly, it's not even Ayton I'm worried about. He's going to be a solid C at the very least because of his talent and physical attributes. I'm worried about the Suns. I was listening to the Hardwood Knocks podcast yesterday and it kind of repeated to me what I was already thinking and that was this narrative that Zion shouldn't come to Phoenix because we just don't have a good program for player development and team building. I have to agree with that. Don't get me wrong, I would love Zion on the Suns because his talent could turn this ship around but at the same time, I'm a basketball fan and I want Zion to thrive and grow into a top NBA player. I think we're probably more a hindrance than a enabler for Zion. It wasn't that long ago when we looked at other teams getting a top pick and you're sad that these exciting prospects are going to a dead end franchise. We're fast becoming that franchise that other teams look at as a dead end for exciting prospect.

So you don't want Zion to come here because you don't feel good about our player development program but would rather take someone else to enter our player development program?

I think, to a very large extent, this is us to the player. Work ethic, film watching, putting up shots, knowing and working on weaknesses, etc.

We haven't had any player development in large part over the last 4 years largely due to the fact that we have had an ever changing coaching staffs, not only head coaches, but getting rid of assistants at times too. Someone starts working on something with a guy, another person gets hired to replace that coach or asst coach, and then they may have a different approach or start at square one.

I'd hate to draft a worse prospect because of these problems we have had. Sure they could keep overhauling the coaching and development staff every year, and it could continue, but hopefully what James Jones says is the goal...to keep some continuity so players can start to further grow.

[lilfishi22]

It's less his attitude and more just his effort levels. He shows bursts of effort (which fans point to) but if you watch throughout the game, it's very inconsistent. He's gotten better, which is encouraging, but he still ball watches, he's still late on rotations and he still needs his team mates to get him in defensive position during the play.

Honestly, it's not even Ayton I'm worried about. He's going to be a solid C at the very least because of his talent and physical attributes. I'm worried about the Suns. I was listening to the Hardwood Knocks podcast yesterday and it kind of repeated to me what I was already thinking and that was this narrative that Zion shouldn't come to Phoenix because we just don't have a good program for player development and team building. I have to agree with that. Don't get me wrong, I would love Zion on the Suns because his talent could turn this ship around but at the same time, I'm a basketball fan and I want Zion to thrive and grow into a top NBA player. I think we're probably more a hindrance than a enabler for Zion. It wasn't that long ago when we looked at other teams getting a top pick and you're sad that these exciting prospects are going to a dead end franchise. We're fast becoming that franchise that other teams look at as a dead end for exciting prospect.

So you don't want Zion to come here because you don't feel good about our player development program but would rather take someone else to enter our player development program?

I think, to a very large extent, this is us to the player. Work ethic, film watching, putting up shots, knowing and working on weaknesses, etc.

We haven't had any player development in large part over the last 4 years largely due to the fact that we have had an ever changing coaching staffs, not only head coaches, but getting rid of assistants at times too. Someone starts working on something with a guy, another person gets hired to replace that coach or asst coach, and then they may have a different approach or start at square one.

I'd hate to draft a worse prospect because of these problems we have had. Sure they could keep overhauling the coaching and development staff every year, and it could continue, but hopefully what James Jones says is the goal...to keep some continuity so

No

I would love Zion on the Suns because his talent could turn this ship around

Luka was the best prospect in the last draft in my eyes and he's gone to a franchise that knows how to build sustainable championship team. The Mavs won a championship the year after we made that flukey WCF in 2010 and continued to be a competitive (but not championship caliber) long after that. You can be at least be confident as a betting man that the Mavs would do the right thing to build around Luka and now KP. Sarver essentially rode the wave of the lightning in a bottle team that was the SSOL Suns which really only lasted 4 seasons. Sarver's Suns has only made 5 playoffs runs in his 15 years of ownership. This is not a good franchise and early success (like McD's tenture) shows we don't have a good track record of success. If I was a neutral NBA fan (unlike a lot of fans, I can take my Suns bias out at times) I would HATE to see Zion go to the Suns because it'll be 7-8years of Zion balling out on a Suns team that is not able to build a team around him

[bwgood77]

It's less his attitude and more just his effort levels. He shows bursts of effort (which fans point to) but if you watch throughout the game, it's very inconsistent. He's gotten better, which is encouraging, but he still ball watches, he's still late on rotations and he still needs his team mates to get him in defensive position during the play.

Honestly, it's not even Ayton I'm worried about. He's going to be a solid C at the very least because of his talent and physical attributes. I'm worried about the Suns. I was listening to the Hardwood Knocks podcast yesterday and it kind of repeated to me what I was already thinking and that was this narrative that Zion shouldn't come to Phoenix because we just don't have a good program for player development and team building. I have to agree with that. Don't get me wrong, I would love Zion on the Suns because his talent could turn this ship around but at the same time, I'm a basketball fan and I want Zion to thrive and grow into a top NBA player. I think we're probably more a hindrance than a enabler for Zion. It wasn't that long ago when we looked at other teams getting a top pick and you're sad that these exciting prospects are going to a dead end franchise. We're fast becoming that franchise that other teams look at as a dead end for exciting prospect.

So you don't want Zion to come here because you don't feel good about our player development program but would rather take someone else to enter our player development program?

I think, to a very large extent, this is us to the player. Work ethic, film watching, putting up shots, knowing and working on weaknesses, etc.

We haven't had any player development in large part over the last 4 years largely due to the fact that we have had an ever changing coaching staffs, not only head coaches, but getting rid of assistants at times too. Someone starts working on something with a guy, another person gets hired to replace that coach or asst coach, and then they may have a different approach or start at square one.

I'd hate to draft a worse prospect because of these problems we have had. Sure they could keep overhauling the coaching and development staff every year, and it could continue, but hopefully what James Jones says is the goal...to keep some continuity so

No

I would love Zion on the Suns because his talent could turn this ship around

Luka was the best prospect in the last draft in my eyes and he's gone to a franchise that knows how to build sustainable championship team. The Mavs won a championship the year after we made that flukey WCF in 2010 and continued to be a competitive (but not championship caliber) long after that. You can be at least be confident as a betting man that the Mavs would do the right thing to build around Luka and now KP. Sarver essentially rode the wave of the lightning in a bottle team that was the SSOL Suns which really only lasted 4 seasons. Sarver's Suns has only made 5 playoffs runs in his 15 years of ownership. This is not a good franchise and early success (like McD's tenture) shows we don't have a good track record of success. If I was a neutral NBA fan (unlike a lot of fans, I can take my Suns bias out at times) I would HATE to see Zion go to the Suns because it'll be 7-8years of Zion balling out on a Suns team that is not able to build a team around him

We've mostly just made awful draft picks. If you make the right draft picks with a solid plan in mind, and savvy trades you can be ok. It's good for players to get in a good situation, and McD destroyed that after Sarver thought he went for a somewhat big name with the McD hiring after the Blanks debacle.

Cuban has always been somewhat of a savvy owner, though it's helped having Dirk and the Carlisle hire was a lucky one...he probably never would have been available if not for the malice at the palice that basically brought down what could have been a very tough team.

[lilfishi22]

So you don't want Zion to come here because you don't feel good about our player development program but would rather take someone else to enter our player development program?

I think, to a very large extent, this is us to the player. Work ethic, film watching, putting up shots, knowing and working on weaknesses, etc.

We haven't had any player development in large part over the last 4 years largely due to the fact that we have had an ever changing coaching staffs, not only head coaches, but getting rid of assistants at times too. Someone starts working on something with a guy, another person gets hired to replace that coach or asst coach, and then they may have a different approach or start at square one.

I'd hate to draft a worse prospect because of these problems we have had. Sure they could keep overhauling the coaching and development staff every year, and it could continue, but hopefully what James Jones says is the goal...to keep some continuity so

No

I would love Zion on the Suns because his talent could turn this ship around

Luka was the best prospect in the last draft in my eyes and he's gone to a franchise that knows how to build sustainable championship team. The Mavs won a championship the year after we made that flukey WCF in 2010 and continued to be a competitive (but not championship caliber) long after that. You can be at least be confident as a betting man that the Mavs would do the right thing to build around Luka and now KP. Sarver essentially rode the wave of the lightning in a bottle team that was the SSOL Suns which really only lasted 4 seasons. Sarver's Suns has only made 5 playoffs runs in his 15 years of ownership. This is not a good franchise and early success (like McD's tenture) shows we don't have a good track record of success. If I was a neutral NBA fan (unlike a lot of fans, I can take my Suns bias out at times) I would HATE to see Zion go to the Suns because it'll be 7-8years of Zion balling out on a Suns team that is not able to build a team around him

We've mostly just made awful draft picks. If you make the right draft picks with a solid plan in mind, and savvy trades you can be ok. It's good for players to get in a good situation, and McD destroyed that after Sarver thought he went for a somewhat big name with the McD hiring after the Blanks debacle.

Cuban has always been somewhat of a savvy owner, though it's helped having Dirk and the Carlisle hire was a lucky one...he probably never would have been available if not for the malice at the palice that basically brought down what could have been a very tough team.

You're right about the Mavs being lucky getting Carlisle but we also had a shot at Budenholzer and Quin Snyder. They obviously weren't the coaches they are now but we had a legit shot at them but we went another direction. It's a lot of luck, I agree. But then what has Sarver really done to show that he can make the right hire, who can make the right coaching hire and roster signing/trades. Nothing really...?

I'm just saying that if I was a neutral fan, the Suns are now on a list of teams that you would hate to see a prospect go to because 1. you'll probably never get to watch the Suns because they aren't on nationally televised games, 2. those prospects probably won't reach their potential because of player development is questionable and 3. they can't build a competitive team

[WeekapaugGroove]

No


Luka was the best prospect in the last draft in my eyes and he's gone to a franchise that knows how to build sustainable championship team. The Mavs won a championship the year after we made that flukey WCF in 2010 and continued to be a competitive (but not championship caliber) long after that. You can be at least be confident as a betting man that the Mavs would do the right thing to build around Luka and now KP. Sarver essentially rode the wave of the lightning in a bottle team that was the SSOL Suns which really only lasted 4 seasons. Sarver's Suns has only made 5 playoffs runs in his 15 years of ownership. This is not a good franchise and early success (like McD's tenture) shows we don't have a good track record of success. If I was a neutral NBA fan (unlike a lot of fans, I can take my Suns bias out at times) I would HATE to see Zion go to the Suns because it'll be 7-8years of Zion balling out on a Suns team that is not able to build a team around him

We've mostly just made awful draft picks. If you make the right draft picks with a solid plan in mind, and savvy trades you can be ok. It's good for players to get in a good situation, and McD destroyed that after Sarver thought he went for a somewhat big name with the McD hiring after the Blanks debacle.

Cuban has always been somewhat of a savvy owner, though it's helped having Dirk and the Carlisle hire was a lucky one...he probably never would have been available if not for the malice at the palice that basically brought down what could have been a very tough team.

You're right about the Mavs being lucky getting Carlisle but we also had a shot at Budenholzer and Quin Snyder. They obviously weren't the coaches they are now but we had a legit shot at them but we went another direction. It's a lot of luck, I agree. But then what has Sarver really done to show that he can make the right hire, who can make the right coaching hire and roster signing/trades. Nothing really...?

I'm just saying that if I was a neutral fan, the Suns are now on a list of teams that you would hate to see a prospect go to because 1. you'll probably never get to watch the Suns because they aren't on nationally televised games, 2. those prospects probably won't reach their potential because of player development is questionable and 3. they can't build a competitive team

While I don't think anything you wrote is wrong it did get me thinking about what the teams/organizations looked like for all the current top players when they entered the league. Just running through the All NBA guys from last year and most were actually drafted by pretty bad teams and situations. Not shocking I guess because most are high picks so went to bad teams. But probably gives the suns some hope that if they get the right guy it can work out.

: LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers - They Cavs were historically bad when they landed him.
F: Kevin Durant, Golden State Warriors - Drafted in the first year of their complete tear down rebuild, development was questionable considering they played him at SG and were definitely losing on purpose for his first two years.
C: Anthony Davis, New Orleans Pelicans - Drafted after the franchise lost CP and the guys they got for him didn't really pan out.
G: James Harden, Houston Rockets - Drafted in the last year of their complete tear down, one could argue they were getting better at developing players by the time he got there but they were still bad.
G: Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers - This team was kind of alright when they drafted him but no powerhouse

F: LaMarcus Aldridge, San Antonio Spurs - Portland was bad and coming out of the JailBlazers era when they picked him. not a great culture
F: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks - badly mismanaged team when they picked him and had the worst record in the league his first season.
C: Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers - the process
G: DeMar DeRozan, Toronto Raptors - was a pretty mediocre team that had lost Bosh
G: Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder - second year of their complete tank and rebuild

F: Paul George, Oklahoma City Thunder - They were a decent team when he was picked.
F: Jimmy Butler, Minnesota Timberwolves - Bulls were a decent team and he was brought along slowly.
C: Karl-Anthony Towns, Minnesota Timberwolves - Bad team
G: Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors - one of the worst franchises in sports he was drafted.
G: Victor Oladipo, Indiana Pacers - Orlando was pretty much the current suns when they picked him


Now there are examples of guys who went to bad situations and didn't fully develop until they ended up some place else. That's the fear for the Suns but that also hasn't always been the case. Really good players tend to develop no matter what situation they get put in. Talent tends to win out over anything else.

[bwgood77]

We've mostly just made awful draft picks. If you make the right draft picks with a solid plan in mind, and savvy trades you can be ok. It's good for players to get in a good situation, and McD destroyed that after Sarver thought he went for a somewhat big name with the McD hiring after the Blanks debacle.

Cuban has always been somewhat of a savvy owner, though it's helped having Dirk and the Carlisle hire was a lucky one...he probably never would have been available if not for the malice at the palice that basically brought down what could have been a very tough team.

You're right about the Mavs being lucky getting Carlisle but we also had a shot at Budenholzer and Quin Snyder. They obviously weren't the coaches they are now but we had a legit shot at them but we went another direction. It's a lot of luck, I agree. But then what has Sarver really done to show that he can make the right hire, who can make the right coaching hire and roster signing/trades. Nothing really...?

I'm just saying that if I was a neutral fan, the Suns are now on a list of teams that you would hate to see a prospect go to because 1. you'll probably never get to watch the Suns because they aren't on nationally televised games, 2. those prospects probably won't reach their potential because of player development is questionable and 3. they can't build a competitive team

While I don't think anything you wrote is wrong it did get me thinking about what the teams/organizations looked like for all the current top players when they entered the league. Just running through the All NBA guys from last year and most were actually drafted by pretty bad teams and situations. Not shocking I guess because most are high picks so went to bad teams. But probably gives the suns some hope that if they get the right guy it can work out.

: LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers - They Cavs were historically bad when they landed him.
F: Kevin Durant, Golden State Warriors - Drafted in the first year of their complete tear down rebuild, development was questionable considering they played him at SG and were definitely losing on purpose for his first two years.
C: Anthony Davis, New Orleans Pelicans - Drafted after the franchise lost CP and the guys they got for him didn't really pan out.
G: James Harden, Houston Rockets - Drafted in the last year of their complete tear down, one could argue they were getting better at developing players by the time he got there but they were still bad.
G: Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers - This team was kind of alright when they drafted him but no powerhouse

F: LaMarcus Aldridge, San Antonio Spurs - Portland was bad and coming out of the JailBlazers era when they picked him. not a great culture
F: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks - badly mismanaged team when they picked him and had the worst record in the league his first season.
C: Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers - the process
G: DeMar DeRozan, Toronto Raptors - was a pretty mediocre team that had lost Bosh
G: Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder - second year of their complete tank and rebuild

F: Paul George, Oklahoma City Thunder - They were a decent team when he was picked.
F: Jimmy Butler, Minnesota Timberwolves - Bulls were a decent team and he was brought along slowly.
C: Karl-Anthony Towns, Minnesota Timberwolves - Bad team
G: Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors - one of the worst franchises in sports he was drafted.
G: Victor Oladipo, Indiana Pacers - Orlando was pretty much the current suns when they picked him


Now there are examples of guys who went to bad situations and didn't fully develop until they ended up some place else. That's the fear for the Suns but that also hasn't always been the case. Really good players tend to develop no matter what situation they get put in. Talent tends to win out over anything else.

Yeah, I almost answered this last night...started to type it up, but in my view, talent, heart and work ethic, for the most part, will supersede situation, at least as far as how good a player becomes. Now of course players will thrive more in a better opportunity but often that simply comes down to more playing time, which hasn't particularly been a problem with our young guys.

[stoo]

you guys are correct.... i believe if we get Zion it will be u turn for us... but I believe that even if we don't get him... I would like to place a bet somewhere that we will have 40 wins next season, seriously

[lilfishi22]

We've mostly just made awful draft picks. If you make the right draft picks with a solid plan in mind, and savvy trades you can be ok. It's good for players to get in a good situation, and McD destroyed that after Sarver thought he went for a somewhat big name with the McD hiring after the Blanks debacle.

Cuban has always been somewhat of a savvy owner, though it's helped having Dirk and the Carlisle hire was a lucky one...he probably never would have been available if not for the malice at the palice that basically brought down what could have been a very tough team.

You're right about the Mavs being lucky getting Carlisle but we also had a shot at Budenholzer and Quin Snyder. They obviously weren't the coaches they are now but we had a legit shot at them but we went another direction. It's a lot of luck, I agree. But then what has Sarver really done to show that he can make the right hire, who can make the right coaching hire and roster signing/trades. Nothing really...?

I'm just saying that if I was a neutral fan, the Suns are now on a list of teams that you would hate to see a prospect go to because 1. you'll probably never get to watch the Suns because they aren't on nationally televised games, 2. those prospects probably won't reach their potential because of player development is questionable and 3. they can't build a competitive team

While I don't think anything you wrote is wrong it did get me thinking about what the teams/organizations looked like for all the current top players when they entered the league. Just running through the All NBA guys from last year and most were actually drafted by pretty bad teams and situations. Not shocking I guess because most are high picks so went to bad teams. But probably gives the suns some hope that if they get the right guy it can work out.

: LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers - They Cavs were historically bad when they landed him.
F: Kevin Durant, Golden State Warriors - Drafted in the first year of their complete tear down rebuild, development was questionable considering they played him at SG and were definitely losing on purpose for his first two years.
C: Anthony Davis, New Orleans Pelicans - Drafted after the franchise lost CP and the guys they got for him didn't really pan out.
G: James Harden, Houston Rockets - Drafted in the last year of their complete tear down, one could argue they were getting better at developing players by the time he got there but they were still bad.
G: Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers - This team was kind of alright when they drafted him but no powerhouse

F: LaMarcus Aldridge, San Antonio Spurs - Portland was bad and coming out of the JailBlazers era when they picked him. not a great culture
F: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks - badly mismanaged team when they picked him and had the worst record in the league his first season.
C: Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers - the process
G: DeMar DeRozan, Toronto Raptors - was a pretty mediocre team that had lost Bosh
G: Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder - second year of their complete tank and rebuild

F: Paul George, Oklahoma City Thunder - They were a decent team when he was picked.
F: Jimmy Butler, Minnesota Timberwolves - Bulls were a decent team and he was brought along slowly.
C: Karl-Anthony Towns, Minnesota Timberwolves - Bad team
G: Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors - one of the worst franchises in sports he was drafted.
G: Victor Oladipo, Indiana Pacers - Orlando was pretty much the current suns when they picked him


Now there are examples of guys who went to bad situations and didn't fully develop until they ended up some place else. That's the fear for the Suns but that also hasn't always been the case. Really good players tend to develop no matter what situation they get put in. Talent tends to win out over anything else.

I don't disagree with what you're saying either. Booker certainly is a good example of a young prospect who was overlooked because he lacked the elite physicals that became a near all-star level player despite going through organisation sanctioned tanking and multiple coaching changes. It certainly happens. I'm not saying Zion can't turn this franchise around. There are certainly players who have the talent and the drive to become an elite player capable of pushing a franchise forward almost single handedly. I'm just saying if I was a neutral fan, I wouldn't put my faith in the Phoenix Suns as the trustee of Zion's development and successful roster building around him.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I don't disagree with what you're saying either. Booker certainly is a good example of a young prospect who was overlooked because he lacked the elite physicals that became a near all-star level player despite going through organisation sanctioned tanking and multiple coaching changes.

Not to get too side tracked but looking back Booker getting picked late lottery in what was thought of as a deep and good draft was really a testament to how well thought of of a prospect he was because he didn't have an elite athletic profile and was a bench guy who was basically only used as a spot up shooter with Kentucky. That profile typically gets you picked late 1st or early 2nd.

[DirtyDez]

I don't disagree with what you're saying either. Booker certainly is a good example of a young prospect who was overlooked because he lacked the elite physicals that became a near all-star level player despite going through organisation sanctioned tanking and multiple coaching changes.

Not to get too side tracked but looking back Booker getting picked late lottery in what was thought of as a deep and good draft was really a testament to how well thought of of a prospect he was because he didn't have an elite athletic profile and was a bench guy who was basically only used as a spot up shooter with Kentucky. That profile typically gets you picked late 1st or early 2nd.

Booker was a year young for his class and should’ve still been in HS while at UK. Had he been in the normal class for his age I’m guessing he would’ve had a huge year at 19 instead of 18 and gone #2 behind Simmons. Lucky us...

[bwgood77]

I don't disagree with what you're saying either. Booker certainly is a good example of a young prospect who was overlooked because he lacked the elite physicals that became a near all-star level player despite going through organisation sanctioned tanking and multiple coaching changes.

Not to get too side tracked but looking back Booker getting picked late lottery in what was thought of as a deep and good draft was really a testament to how well thought of of a prospect he was because he didn't have an elite athletic profile and was a bench guy who was basically only used as a spot up shooter with Kentucky. That profile typically gets you picked late 1st or early 2nd.

Booker was a year young for his class and should’ve still been in HS while at UK. Had he been in the normal class for his age I’m guessing he would’ve had a huge year at 19 instead of 18 and gone #2 behind Simmons. Lucky us...

You mean in the next year? I mean even in that year he has mentioned he only signed with UK because he thought the Harrison twins were going pro.

Had he waited a year I wonder how it would have worked out with him and Murray.

[Gavin_TDThree]

I didn't realize how big of a human Ayton was until seeing him in person when he played the raptors earlier this year.

What's up with his FTA per game though? Someone with his size and talent could be making a a living at the line

[DirtyDez]

Not to get too side tracked but looking back Booker getting picked late lottery in what was thought of as a deep and good draft was really a testament to how well thought of of a prospect he was because he didn't have an elite athletic profile and was a bench guy who was basically only used as a spot up shooter with Kentucky. That profile typically gets you picked late 1st or early 2nd.

Booker was a year young for his class and should’ve still been in HS while at UK. Had he been in the normal class for his age I’m guessing he would’ve had a huge year at 19 instead of 18 and gone #2 behind Simmons. Lucky us...

You mean in the next year? I mean even in that year he has mentioned he only signed with UK because he thought the Harrison twins were going pro.

Had he waited a year I wonder how it would have worked out with him and Murray.

Wherever he went it’s hard imagining him not having a great year and being a top-5 pick. It might’ve happened anyway had the Twins not came back after leading them to the title game a year earlier. Cal trusted them. One of Murray/Briscoe probably doesn’t go if Booker went back.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Booker was a year young for his class and should’ve still been in HS while at UK. Had he been in the normal class for his age I’m guessing he would’ve had a huge year at 19 instead of 18 and gone #2 behind Simmons. Lucky us...

You mean in the next year? I mean even in that year he has mentioned he only signed with UK because he thought the Harrison twins were going pro.

Had he waited a year I wonder how it would have worked out with him and Murray.

Wherever he went it’s hard imagining him not having a great year and being a top-5 pick. It might’ve happened anyway had the Twins not came back after leading them to the title game a year earlier. Cal trusted them. One of Murray/Briscoe probably doesn’t go if Booker went back.

And that was a weak ass draft the following year. But worked out for booker because he's getting his max deal a year earlier now.

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