Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Jeff Van Gully]

I'm all for getting a look at a Frank/DSJr backcourt, but I've already seen what it looks like.

It looks like the minutes that Kadeem Allen and DSJr have gotten together. Not a ton, but they've been out there together a few times.

And I'm a fan of Frank, and also, I think it's just reasonable to give him another year, if only because if he can add some offense to his defense, that's a nice rotational player. Also the sort that fits in well with star scorers (same w/ Kadeem)

But let's be honest, for these last 25 games, while the Knicks SHOULD feature DSJr and Frank together and probably will (who really knows with Fiz, tbh), again, we know what it looks like.

It looks like Kadeem\DSJr, only not as good, as Kadeem, with 6 more years of age, is better at being aggressive, getting into the lane, is a good passer himself and his shot is good/decent in the short/mid and longer range.

So, it'll be the same thing, only with less shot making and less breaking down the D from Frank.

Also, if there's anything that might be good about pairing the two, other than brief glimpses of how it might work when the both click (but particularly Frank) is if there was enough movement to run DSJr around some, while Frank was the more primary distributor on those possessions. But Fiz's offense lacks movement, other than some curls for Dotson and once in a blue Knox, so I what I expect to see is DSJr with the ball in his hands 90% of the time (instead of 50 or 60%) breaking down the D, Frank's guy shading off him into the paint, Frank getting the ball, which the defense wants - like when LFT gets it a lot, and Frank missing the open jumper.

Might as well. The reps will help Frank, DSJr should continue to get off the ball training as well, this situation should assist whichever one of them isn't traded in the offseason after Kyrie signs.

i think frank is a more talented passer/facilitator than kadeem. but i think that's a good point. kadeem is further along in his development and is getting a chance to show it on the big stage.

DSJ/frank have the potential to cause trouble in an unselfish, ball-moving backcourt. frank just needs to work on improving his scoring in that context.

if we want kadeem, he should be available to us for depth on a minimum-type deal next season. i don't think any other team is breaking the bank for him. what should be the man issue for kadeem is which team will give him the most PT. being a third stringer on the knicks isn't a great idea for a guy who'll be 27 next year. he needs a jonathon simmons kind of situation where his abilities are recognized to the point he gets paid too. dude's been playing damn near for free for a long time.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm all for getting a look at a Frank/DSJr backcourt, but I've already seen what it looks like.

It looks like the minutes that Kadeem Allen and DSJr have gotten together. Not a ton, but they've been out there together a few times.

And I'm a fan of Frank, and also, I think it's just reasonable to give him another year, if only because if he can add some offense to his defense, that's a nice rotational player. Also the sort that fits in well with star scorers (same w/ Kadeem)

But let's be honest, for these last 25 games, while the Knicks SHOULD feature DSJr and Frank together and probably will (who really knows with Fiz, tbh), again, we know what it looks like.

It looks like Kadeem\DSJr, only not as good, as Kadeem, with 6 more years of age, is better at being aggressive, getting into the lane, is a good passer himself and his shot is good/decent in the short/mid and longer range.

So, it'll be the same thing, only with less shot making and less breaking down the D from Frank.

Also, if there's anything that might be good about pairing the two, other than brief glimpses of how it might work when the both click (but particularly Frank) is if there was enough movement to run DSJr around some, while Frank was the more primary distributor on those possessions. But Fiz's offense lacks movement, other than some curls for Dotson and once in a blue Knox, so I what I expect to see is DSJr with the ball in his hands 90% of the time (instead of 50 or 60%) breaking down the D, Frank's guy shading off him into the paint, Frank getting the ball, which the defense wants - like when LFT gets it a lot, and Frank missing the open jumper.

Might as well. The reps will help Frank, DSJr should continue to get off the ball training as well, this situation should assist whichever one of them isn't traded in the offseason after Kyrie signs.

i think frank is a more talented passer/facilitator than kadeem. but i think that's a good point. kadeem is further along in his development and is getting a chance to show it on the big stage.

DSJ/frank have the potential to cause trouble in an unselfish, ball-moving backcourt. frank just needs to work on improving his scoring in that context.

if we want kadeem, he should be available to us for depth on a minimum-type deal next season. i don't think any other team is breaking the bank for him. what should be the man issue for kadeem is which team will give him the most PT. being a third stringer on the knicks isn't a great idea for a guy who'll be 27 next year. he needs a jonathon simmons kind of situation where his abilities are recognized to the point he gets paid too. dude's been playing damn near for free for a long time.

Frank could learn from Kadeem, in terms of aggressiveness, but also some of his "inbetween" moves between the short jumper and a layup. And the floater game from Knox.
Not that Kadeem has some amazing game in the "inbetween" - he's solid all over. But I just think that with his height, there are certain shots that are available for Frank all game long - bunny jumpers foul line in, floaters and push shots in the lane. It's a bit much to ask, but I wish he'd learn to post guys up and add a slight fadeaway jumper. There's been a handful of post ups.

Also, I know guards are supposed to be able to just "get theirs" but I find it annoying when people denigrate the fact that Frank needs a pick to free him up. Most guards in the NBA need it to some degree. Obviously Frank needs it a lot. But the fact that Fiz doesn't run the P&R in the same way even Jefe did, just bothers me. It's like having this version of Mitch and making him post up all game because "that's what bigs do". Run the plays that play to the player's abilities.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I'm all for getting a look at a Frank/DSJr backcourt, but I've already seen what it looks like.

It looks like the minutes that Kadeem Allen and DSJr have gotten together. Not a ton, but they've been out there together a few times.

And I'm a fan of Frank, and also, I think it's just reasonable to give him another year, if only because if he can add some offense to his defense, that's a nice rotational player. Also the sort that fits in well with star scorers (same w/ Kadeem)

But let's be honest, for these last 25 games, while the Knicks SHOULD feature DSJr and Frank together and probably will (who really knows with Fiz, tbh), again, we know what it looks like.

It looks like Kadeem\DSJr, only not as good, as Kadeem, with 6 more years of age, is better at being aggressive, getting into the lane, is a good passer himself and his shot is good/decent in the short/mid and longer range.

So, it'll be the same thing, only with less shot making and less breaking down the D from Frank.

Also, if there's anything that might be good about pairing the two, other than brief glimpses of how it might work when the both click (but particularly Frank) is if there was enough movement to run DSJr around some, while Frank was the more primary distributor on those possessions. But Fiz's offense lacks movement, other than some curls for Dotson and once in a blue Knox, so I what I expect to see is DSJr with the ball in his hands 90% of the time (instead of 50 or 60%) breaking down the D, Frank's guy shading off him into the paint, Frank getting the ball, which the defense wants - like when LFT gets it a lot, and Frank missing the open jumper.

Might as well. The reps will help Frank, DSJr should continue to get off the ball training as well, this situation should assist whichever one of them isn't traded in the offseason after Kyrie signs.

i think frank is a more talented passer/facilitator than kadeem. but i think that's a good point. kadeem is further along in his development and is getting a chance to show it on the big stage.

DSJ/frank have the potential to cause trouble in an unselfish, ball-moving backcourt. frank just needs to work on improving his scoring in that context.

if we want kadeem, he should be available to us for depth on a minimum-type deal next season. i don't think any other team is breaking the bank for him. what should be the man issue for kadeem is which team will give him the most PT. being a third stringer on the knicks isn't a great idea for a guy who'll be 27 next year. he needs a jonathon simmons kind of situation where his abilities are recognized to the point he gets paid too. dude's been playing damn near for free for a long time.

Frank could learn from Kadeem, in terms of aggressiveness, but also some of his "inbetween" moves between the short jumper and a layup. And the floater game from Knox.
Not that Kadeem has some amazing game in the "inbetween" - he's solid all over. But I just think that with his height, there are certain shots that are available for Frank all game long.

Also, I know guards are supposed to be able to just "get theirs" but I find it annoying when people denigrate the fact that Frank needs a pick to free him up. Most guards in the NBA need it to some degree. Obviously Frank needs it a lot. But the fact that Fiz doesn't run the P&R in the same way even Jefe did, just bothers me. It's like having this version of Mitch and making him post up all game because "that's what bigs do". Run the plays that play to the player's abilities.

guards are supposed to have the skills to beat defenders individually. frank hasn't shown that at an NBA level. when he tries, he's usually stymied. when he's successful, he did something clever like an off-time dribble or used his length to scoop layup. a few times he's pressed a defender's back foot and gotten by them. that's something that requires explosion to be a general threat, but can also just be good recognition. like that dunk on gobert. that really was the result of frank catching kyle korver slipping (as usual ) and getting the step. would love to see more of that. frank was still in his facilitator element. the play obviously wasn't for him. but he saw the opportunity to call his own number and took it.

[thebuzzardman]

i think frank is a more talented passer/facilitator than kadeem. but i think that's a good point. kadeem is further along in his development and is getting a chance to show it on the big stage.

DSJ/frank have the potential to cause trouble in an unselfish, ball-moving backcourt. frank just needs to work on improving his scoring in that context.

if we want kadeem, he should be available to us for depth on a minimum-type deal next season. i don't think any other team is breaking the bank for him. what should be the man issue for kadeem is which team will give him the most PT. being a third stringer on the knicks isn't a great idea for a guy who'll be 27 next year. he needs a jonathon simmons kind of situation where his abilities are recognized to the point he gets paid too. dude's been playing damn near for free for a long time.

Frank could learn from Kadeem, in terms of aggressiveness, but also some of his "inbetween" moves between the short jumper and a layup. And the floater game from Knox.
Not that Kadeem has some amazing game in the "inbetween" - he's solid all over. But I just think that with his height, there are certain shots that are available for Frank all game long.

Also, I know guards are supposed to be able to just "get theirs" but I find it annoying when people denigrate the fact that Frank needs a pick to free him up. Most guards in the NBA need it to some degree. Obviously Frank needs it a lot. But the fact that Fiz doesn't run the P&R in the same way even Jefe did, just bothers me. It's like having this version of Mitch and making him post up all game because "that's what bigs do". Run the plays that play to the player's abilities.

guards are supposed to have the skills to beat defenders individually. frank hasn't shown that at an NBA level. when he tries, he's usually stymied. when he's successful, he did something clever like an off-time dribble or used his length to scoop layup. a few times he's pressed a defender's back foot and gotten by them. that's something that requires explosion to be a general threat, but can also just be good recognition. like that dunk on gobert. that really was the result of frank catching kyle korver slipping (as usual ) and getting the step. would love to see more of that. frank was still in his facilitator element. the play obviously wasn't for him. but he saw the opportunity to call his own number and took it.

Again, yes, guards are supposed to beat guards, and for Frank, that's only a sometimes thing, at best. But it's also a team game. It's like saying "A shooter should just be able to get open to get the ball" but loads of them need one, two, three screens to get free - or it helps for an easier shot in rhythm. So, Frank needs to work on just getting by people. At the least, it's the difference between an average starting guard and a bench guy. But while he's in the development curve of possibly getting there, run the plays that clearly work for him. Frank was effective in the P&R last year. Obviously, the offensive talent isn't the same as when it was KP, then Beasley and a decent amount of O'Quinn - all guys who could threaten a jumper instead of just rolling to the basket, but he was effective enough. I'm not advocating "oh, Frank could be the starting PG now, if only they set a pick for him every play" just they should run it more often when he's the PG.

I guess this is how a team deliberately tanks, but I saw more interesting offense from the Knicks in the summer league.

[BeagleBoss]

How can you not root for the kid? He’s young and he’s working hard to be a great player and teammate. What more do you want?

Consistent progress and results.

[matchman]

Hopefully he will be back in a few days after the ASB, then we see more of him and how he pairs with DSJ.

[Jeff Van Gully]

How can you not root for the kid? He’s young and he’s working hard to be a great player and teammate. What more do you want?

Consistent progress and results.

i hear that. but ironically, consistency is something frank hasn't been given.

[omerome]

Frank should be starting the rest of the season at the 1 or the 2 so hopefully, he will get the opportunities he needs to gain experience.

[taj2133]

I met dennis smith at mountain ice event in charlotte yesterday nice guy , dennis did say he was excited to see him and frank play, said it was going to be interesting.

[SmoothLefty21]

Frank has to be playing on Friday, right?

[Jalen Bluntson]

Frank better be STARTING Friday night with DSJ. There's no reason they shouldn't start the rest of the season. Mudiay? Waive him. We got the rich mans Mudiay in Kadeem.

DSJ/Allen
Frank/Trier
Knox/Dot
Luke/Vonleh
Mitch/DJ

That's what I want to see. Mudiay and Hezonja can kick rocks.

[HarthorneWingo]

If Joe Harris can do it, then I say “so can Frank.”

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http://bleacherreport.com/post/brooklyn-nets/a2a86c53-4c11-43af-9084-964aa873ff82

i think the lesson is not to give up on players too early.

to be fair, joe harris' shooting skills were expected from UVA. he has become a complete player over time.

frank's shooting was always inconsistent, but improving. it's possible with time he can become the complete, swiss army knife big guard we'd hoped. it's also possible he doesn't. hard to have patience, i suppose.

i wish i could say frank got a consistent opportunity to play in a consistent role, but he hasn't. i hope we don't throw him out unless we absolutely need to in a big deal. that goes for pretty much all of the youth. i'd look to supplement them with key cheap vet mentors who also want to win, like that 2012-13 crew.

the problem with that is we literally assembled the last of a dying breed there. i'm not sure who even fits that mold right now.

Good points. I didn't know much about Harris but even when I watched him last year you could tell he had this kind of potential. He's got a great stroke. And I'm not expecting Frank to come close to what Harris is doing offensively but it just seems to me that Frank's form and touch suggest that he should be a competent offensive player (14-16 ppg?).

There are other players around the league who were bricklayers from 3 - Marcus Smart, Derrick Rose to name a couple - who spent the time working on it and finally figured it out. With Frank's defensive capabilities, it would be a shame to give up on him now.

[BKlutch]

It's really time (past time, actually) for Fiz to play the guard combinations that may work in the future (if we don't get Kyrie). DSJ with Dotson, Frank, Trier, and Dotson at the 2. Frank with those guys at the 2. Allen and Frank together (mix and match, see how they play off one another). Let their play show us what work. I just don't want to see minutes wasted on Mudiay this late in the season. Maybe they should rest him until the end of the season to keep his value up for his own FA. Or let him ride the bench in case 2 or 3 of the others go down with injuries.

Either way, I can't stop saying this: NO THJR. (And good luck Courtney, you were born a few years too soon for this team.) And as for Burke, well, wherever Mudiay goes, he'll need a backup. Is that called 3rd or 4th guard? Could the Mavs spare him?

[regGQ]

I think DSJ is pretty close already to what his ceiling is. I must be the only one who would give his minutes to Trier to close out the season. It's definitely not gonna happen though.


Im at least hoping for a starting DSJ/Frank backcourt and Frank slides to the one whenever DSJ is out. With Dotson/Trier at the 2. Frank needs as many minutes with DJ as possible. Hasn't had solid PNR showings since KP, but to be fair to him he hasn't had a viable threat.

[dakomish23]

Frank DSJ needs to get 20+ together each night at the minimum.

[thebuzzardman]

Frank going to be getting the bulk of his minutes at backup SF

[Richard4444]

It will be hard to the Knicks to Keep Frank for next season. He has a lot of potential but he will take time do develop his offensive skills. There are a few reasons to get rid of him.

1) With the arrival of Durant or other big FA, we will be a win now team. It will be hard to keep a player in the rotation that cant help in the offensive end. We will not be a patient team for sure.

2) We will probably need to clear cap space to sign big FAs as up to 71M. We will have around 70/74M of cap space depending on our pick position without Trier or Kornet on the roster. If we can trade Frank for a late FRP (like the THJr trade for Grant), we can sign one of these players and keep a cheaper project for the future.

3) Signing Durant and Irving will give the FO a reason to persuade trades for veteran star players like AD, Beal, etc. Frank is a good asset and he will be our second bigger non star salary, with much value in any trade to match salaries. Rebuilding teams can be more patient to the development of Franks offensive skills.

[HarthorneWingo]

Frank going to be getting the bulk of his minutes at backup SF

You agree with that?

[KnicksGadfly]

Frank needs to just learn how to shoot...

[thebuzzardman]

Frank going to be getting the bulk of his minutes at backup SF

You agree with that?

Yes and no. Like a lot of my sarcasm driven posts, I only believe part of it.

So - DSJr is going to get the bulk of minutes at "PG". Obviously, with Frank playing at all, that's already trending towards "positionless"

So, no, he won't get the bulk of his minutes there, but I think it's pretty easy to say Frank will be kind of at the "3" spot, where the other "guard" is Dotson/Trier/Kadeem or....Mudiay.

Small sample size within small sample size, but Fiz has had Kadeem out there with DSJr and Trier and also Dotson. In any event, the SF's are Knox and Mario so no reason why Frank shouldn't cut into some of Mario's minutes, and Mario is best used as a bench stretch 4 anyway.

TLDR - don't really believe it. Fiz is going 3 guard a lot for the rest of the year (roster dictates it), don't see Fiz abandoning Mudiay.