Political Roundtable Part XXV

[dckingsfan]

Get used to saying "President Sanders" in 2020, dckings.

Bookmarked

[Wizardspride]

Stupid hot take.

More Sanders supporters voted for that Hillary's sorry losing ass than Hillary supporters voted for Obama in 2008.



https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

Hillary's racist campaign created the disgusting birther movement, not McCain's. Hillary's campaign tried to usurp democracy by trying to get superdelegates to change their votes from Obama to her. Hillary's racist campaign tried to paint Obama as an unqualified liar, discrediting him at every debate. Hillary's supporters at the time had so much hate and vitriol for Obama, that many of them ended up voting for McCain.

You mean Sanders racist campaign team? - just helping

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/us/politics/bernie-sanders-black-voters-outreach.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/supporting-bernie-sanders-does-not-excuse-misogyny_us_573cb3bde4b0646cbeebd0eb

Get used to saying "President Sanders" in 2020, dckings.

In all seriousness, unless something changes with minority voters I don't see it.

[gtn130]

Lol, almost every time I look at this thread, I wonder why I give it another shot.

I know right. Just go away. *I want a pony for Christmas*.

TGW, buddy, you're legitimately incapable of looking at anything with any nuance. Everyone is a DNC shill in your world. Give it a rest, man.

[gtn130]

People are overreacting to early Dem primary numbers and machinations. The favorites today could easily look nothing like they will a year from now.

Joe Biden for example has broad but weak support. He has a lot of name recognition, so in these early phone polls he does well because he's the one people have heard of the most. After one debate or town hall or whatever he could easily lose a huge chunk of his support basically over night.

Bernie on the other hand has strong but more narrow support. His supporters probably aren't leaving him, but he's not quite as broadly approved of like Biden is. The latter could easily change. Biden could also perform really well as a candidate and end up crushing - who knows (although I doubt it).

Kamala Harris and Cory Booker are huge names to people who read this thread, but they're relative nobodies to casual observers. It seems like a lot of folks think candidates like the aforementioned are DOA, but really they're not. They have enough money behind their campaigns so that they can get beyond name recognition issues.

tl;dr but it's still way too early to have a clue who the favorite is. I'd bet the field against Biden just because he hasn't done a very good job in the limited public appearances he's made, but again, who knows.

[dckingsfan]

You mean Sanders racist campaign team? - just helping

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/us/politics/bernie-sanders-black-voters-outreach.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/supporting-bernie-sanders-does-not-excuse-misogyny_us_573cb3bde4b0646cbeebd0eb

Get used to saying "President Sanders" in 2020, dckings.

In all seriousness, unless something changes with minority voters I don't see it.

And women, other than that Ms. Lincoln, how was the play

[pancakes3]

Read on Twitter

[TGW]

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it's over dckings! Sanders should drop out now!

[FAH1223]

Bernie still has the juice. I gave a few bucks. I got texts from the campaign already asking if I'm in and I am. Bernie ain't messing around this time, he can actually win the nomination.

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Warren and Bernie are my top 2 in no particular order.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

I hope you can all agree that regardless of who gets the Democratic nomination you guys will vote Democrat straight up and down the ticket. Move the hell on after the primaries and do everything in your power to get people to turn out.

[I_Like_Dirt]

it's over dckings! Sanders should drop out now!

Trying to win the Democratic ticket without much minority or female support is going to be an uphill battle. Does he have what it takes to reach out to them and demonstrate that he actually cares about those causes rather than simply paying them lip service? We will see. He made it pretty clear to a lot of women's rights advocates that he was okay compromising their cause for his own. The Bernie Bros network isn't always the most inclusive in the end. We will see.

[montestewart]

I hope you can all agree that regardless of who gets the Democratic nomination you guys will vote Democrat straight up and down the ticket. Move the hell on after the primaries and do everything in your power to get people to turn out.

I don't have to. Everyone votes Democrat in DC, and even if they don't, Democrat wins. Republicans couldn't even knock off crack addict con man Mayor-For-Life (with a short break for prison) Barry. I'll work on my Virginia friends, although the Democratic party has had some stumbles there recently.

[Doug_Blew]

it's over dckings! Sanders should drop out now!

To me, Sanders and Warren are unappealing general election candidates. I am just routing for the candidate that has the best chance against Trump.

[FAH1223]

it's over dckings! Sanders should drop out now!

Trying to win the Democratic ticket without much minority or female support is going to be an uphill battle. Does he have what it takes to reach out to them and demonstrate that he actually cares about those causes rather than simply paying them lip service? We will see. He made it pretty clear to a lot of women's rights advocates that he was okay compromising their cause for his own. The Bernie Bros network isn't always the most inclusive in the end. We will see.

Read on Twitter

The issue is older voters hate Bernie Sanders.

He won young voters of color easily in 2016 including yours truly. Best of any candidate in both parties primary cycle. But young people don't vote and Democratic primary voters do not go against centrists in fact they love centrists.

[dckingsfan]

I hope you can all agree that regardless of who gets the Democratic nomination you guys will vote Democrat straight up and down the ticket. Move the hell on after the primaries and do everything in your power to get people to turn out.

Wait, I thought we were following the wisdom of TGW on this and bailing on Bernie since he isn't a D?

[dckingsfan]

it's over dckings! Sanders should drop out now!

Trying to win the Democratic ticket without much minority or female support is going to be an uphill battle. Does he have what it takes to reach out to them and demonstrate that he actually cares about those causes rather than simply paying them lip service? We will see. He made it pretty clear to a lot of women's rights advocates that he was okay compromising their cause for his own. The Bernie Bros network isn't always the most inclusive in the end. We will see.

Come on... TGW not inclusive?

[I_Like_Dirt]

He won young voters of color easily in 2016 including yours truly. Best of any candidate in both parties primary cycle. But young people don't vote and Democratic primary voters do not go against centrists in fact they love centrists.

I would suggest that he didn't actually win young voters of colour. Winning involves actually getting them to vote for you and while he did get more than Hillary, he still didn't drive particularly significant numbers to the polls. That matters. It's also something that will matter even more should he win the nomination. Yeah, D voters will support him in general but if some women and minorities just stay home when they'd have come out and voted for another candidate, it's a problem.

And again, this isn't something that would necessarily be particularly hard for Bernie to address. His platform is basically designed to interlock with these other issues and honestly does interlock with them if you look at the details he espouses. But then you look at what he speaks to when it matters and where he places his value, and the actions of his followers, and you start to understand the greater picture a bit. Bernie very obviously has some extremely devoted supporters. If you look past simple devotion to what others are going to think of him as a candidate, he's an issue. And if his supporters stay home should he not win the nomination again, it's an even bigger problem, where he's simply a representative symptom of all his supporters who can't see past their own experiences.

[nate33]

Sanders will certainly appeal to the liberal white vote from the Northeast and Midwest, but can he turn out the vote from blacks and Hispanics in the South and Southeast? I don't think so.

It'll be interesting. I don't think Sanders can win Florida, North Carolina, Georgia or Arizona, but then, he might not have to. If he can win Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Nevada and Wisconsin, that might be enough. It might come down to Wisconsin. If Trump wins it, it could be 269-269.

I'm curious how Sanders would do in Colorado and Nevada. They're pretty consistently blue these days, but they're certainly not socialist.

[FAH1223]

Sanders will certainly appeal to the liberal white vote from the Northeast and Midwest, but can he turn out the vote from blacks and Hispanics in the South and Southeast? I don't think so.

It'll be interesting. I don't think Sanders can win Florida, North Carolina, Georgia or Arizona, but then, he might not have to. If he can win Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Nevada and Wisconsin, that might be enough. It might come down to Wisconsin. If Trump wins it, it could be 269-269.

I'm curious how Sanders would do in Colorado and Nevada. They're pretty consistently blue these days, but they're certainly not socialist.

With how unpopular Trump has gotten in PA, MI, and WI, I think any Dem nominee will be able to win those states. The Dems did really well in all 3 in 2018.

I think NV and CO will vote blue because of POTUS being so unpopular.

I don't think a Dem wins FL unless perhaps its Biden or someone of that ilk.

Bernie's people interestingly think states like Montana could be in play. Perhaps the populism of the left may be what voters want with regards to the opposite embodied in Trump. Sanders is a democratic socialist who views Eugene Debs as a hero but he has spoken more about New Deal Liberalism and mentioning Roosevelt far more. He is against socializing the means of production.

Americans aren't socialists but they do like social welfare policies.

He won young voters of color easily in 2016 including yours truly. Best of any candidate in both parties primary cycle. But young people don't vote and Democratic primary voters do not go against centrists in fact they love centrists.

I would suggest that he didn't actually win young voters of colour. Winning involves actually getting them to vote for you and while he did get more than Hillary, he still didn't drive particularly significant numbers to the polls. That matters. It's also something that will matter even more should he win the nomination. Yeah, D voters will support him in general but if some women and minorities just stay home when they'd have come out and voted for another candidate, it's a problem.

And again, this isn't something that would necessarily be particularly hard for Bernie to address. His platform is basically designed to interlock with these other issues and honestly does interlock with them if you look at the details he espouses. But then you look at what he speaks to when it matters and where he places his value, and the actions of his followers, and you start to understand the greater picture a bit. Bernie very obviously has some extremely devoted supporters. If you look past simple devotion to what others are going to think of him as a candidate, he's an issue. And if his supporters stay home should he not win the nomination again, it's an even bigger problem, where he's simply a representative symptom of all his supporters who can't see past their own experiences.

88% of his voters in 2016 voted for Hillary in the general election. Issue was turnout in WI, MI, PA...

I think Bernie since losing his first POTUS bid is reaching out to the black community and has made inroads within the Democratic Party. But the resistance is real.