Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac

[PrimeThyme]

As in that they play similar positionally and have the same pros and cons to their games? Lol...

We don’t know yet if they are complimentary playing together. We just hope they can be. How many games of sample size do we really even have that they are the “perfect combo”?

One could argue the player most complimentary to AG is someone like Doncic that can create offense and stretch the floor. That isn’t Isaac by any stretch of the imagination currently.

AG is good.
Isaac is improving this year. The only people that should be “eating crow” are the ones calling him an outright bust. Way too early make such claims considering this is essentially his rookie season.

While that all could be true, at the same time we have 45 games now of an Isaac/AG lineup, and it has a plus 5.2 net rating for the year (+15 the last 10 games). It’s actually proving to be quite successful, and this is only in year one with a still pretty raw and developing offensive player in Isaac.

Not to mention the fact that it also has that rating with a below average starting point guard and a shooting guard outside of the last 10 games in Evan that has played very poorly offensively. As Evan has started to return to form that lineup has begun to produce real results.

I had my reservations about an Isaac/AG lineup having success (especially this early), but I have to be honest, I really am starting to think it can longterm.

Add a starting point guard (healthy Fultz?) next offseason and an offseason jump from Isaac and I 100% see a world where AG/Isaac can coexist together for a long time.

Replace Ross with Isaac and it’s the more successful lineup of the two.

Obviously that’s the case atm. The whole point I’m trying to make is that the pairing is already paying off enough to make the experiment worth it. If Isaac continues to improve on the offensive end and AG continues to improve as a playmaker that pairing has the upside to be better than any Ross/Isaac or Ross/AG pairing does imo.

People just act like the Isaac/AG pairing has been disastrous and it’s just not the case if you actually care to look at the numbers. It has the potential to be very good and there shouldn’t be a rush to end it anytime soon. What those two could potentially do on the defensive end could be special.

[Knightro]

If Isaac continues to improve on the offensive end and AG continues to improve as a playmaker that pairing has the upside to be better than any Ross/Isaac or Ross/AG pairing does imo.

To be fair, anyone suggesting breaking up the Gordon/Isaac pair (which I admittedly have done at times this season) is subsequently suggesting flipping one of them (Gordon) for the best wing player you can get.

So it’s not really fair to compare Gordon/Isaac to Ross/Gordon or Ross/Isaac.

It would be comparing Gordon/Isaac to “whatever you could get for Gordon in a trade”/Isaac or visa versa.

[Knightro]

If Isaac continues to improve on the offensive end and AG continues to improve as a playmaker that pairing has the upside to be better than any Ross/Isaac or Ross/AG pairing does imo.

To be fair, anyone suggesting breaking up the Gordon/Isaac pair (which I admittedly have done at times this season) is subsequently suggesting flipping one of them (Gordon most likely) for the best wing player you can get.

So it’s not really fair to compare Gordon/Isaac to Ross/Isaac.

It would be comparing Gordon/Isaac to “whatever you could get for Gordon in a trade”/Isaac.

[VFX]

If Isaac continues to improve on the offensive end and AG continues to improve as a playmaker that pairing has the upside to be better than any Ross/Isaac or Ross/AG pairing does imo.

To be fair, anyone suggesting breaking up the Gordon/Isaac pair (which I admittedly have done at times this season) is subsequently suggesting flipping one of them (Gordon) for the best wing player you can get.

So it’s not really fair to compare Gordon/Isaac to Ross/Gordon or Ross/Isaac.

It would be comparing Gordon/Isaac to “whatever you could get for Gordon in a trade”/Isaac or visa versa.

Yes. Entirely hypothetical.

Isaac and Gordon can be effective together. If we believe Isaac can be as effective as having Ross on the floor offensively, we are set. That’s always been the question. Defense has never been in question and team defense will unquestionably become better over time.

If we had more options offensively it wouldn’t be an issue. We can’t rely on Fultz to solve that problem currently.

[PrimeThyme]

If Isaac continues to improve on the offensive end and AG continues to improve as a playmaker that pairing has the upside to be better than any Ross/Isaac or Ross/AG pairing does imo.

To be fair, anyone suggesting breaking up the Gordon/Isaac pair (which I admittedly have done at times this season) is subsequently suggesting flipping one of them (Gordon) for the best wing player you can get.

So it’s not really fair to compare Gordon/Isaac to Ross/Gordon or Ross/Isaac.

It would be comparing Gordon/Isaac to “whatever you could get for Gordon in a trade”/Isaac or visa versa.

It doesn't change my argument. I still think the potential of that pairing has more upside than any wing we could realistically target. I'm not sure what wing is on the market right now that would be a long-term upgrade over Isaac or AG anyways.

Most of the people I see suggesting to trade Isaac/AG want to move him for a guard. What wing are people suggesting to trade Isaac/AG for?

[tiderulz]

If Isaac continues to improve on the offensive end and AG continues to improve as a playmaker that pairing has the upside to be better than any Ross/Isaac or Ross/AG pairing does imo.

To be fair, anyone suggesting breaking up the Gordon/Isaac pair (which I admittedly have done at times this season) is subsequently suggesting flipping one of them (Gordon) for the best wing player you can get.

So it’s not really fair to compare Gordon/Isaac to Ross/Gordon or Ross/Isaac.

It would be comparing Gordon/Isaac to “whatever you could get for Gordon in a trade”/Isaac or visa versa.

It doesn't change my argument. I still think the potential of that pairing has more upside than any wing we could realistically target. I'm not sure what wing is on the market right now that would be a long-term upgrade over Isaac or AG anyways.

Most of the people I see suggesting to trade Isaac/AG want to move him for a guard. What wing are people suggesting to trade Isaac/AG for?

but we have no idea if Isaac would attain even further potential at PF than SF. We saw AG, he was much more effective at PF than SF. could be the same situation, but with Isaac having a higher ceiling than AG, he definitely seems better on defense than AG (not by a large amount, but he does seem better, while also providing shot blocking which AG does not)

[Instincts]

While that all could be true, at the same time we have 45 games now of an Isaac/AG lineup, and it has a plus 5.2 net rating for the year (+15 the last 10 games). It’s actually proving to be quite successful, and this is only in year one with a still pretty raw and developing offensive player in Isaac.

Not to mention the fact that it also has that rating with a below average starting point guard and a shooting guard outside of the last 10 games in Evan that has played very poorly offensively. As Evan has started to return to form that lineup has begun to produce real results.

I had my reservations about an Isaac/AG lineup having success (especially this early), but I have to be honest, I really am starting to think it can longterm.

Add a starting point guard (healthy Fultz?) next offseason and an offseason jump from Isaac and I 100% see a world where AG/Isaac can coexist together for a long time.

Replace Ross with Isaac and it’s the more successful lineup of the two.

Obviously that’s the case atm. The whole point I’m trying to make is that the pairing is already paying off enough to make the experiment worth it. If Isaac continues to improve on the offensive end and AG continues to improve as a playmaker that pairing has the upside to be better than any Ross/Isaac or Ross/AG pairing does imo.

People just act like the Isaac/AG pairing has been disastrous and it’s just not the case if you actually care to look at the numbers. It has the potential to be very good and there shouldn’t be a rush to end it anytime soon. What those two could potentially do on the defensive end could be special.

yep, well said.

[Skybox]

I couldn't care less that Turner put Isaac #1 on the daily top ten plays (posters)...that means he (unlike most of the NBA) is contesting shots, even when in a bad spot...Almost all of the all-time great highlight dunks feature a shot-blocker coming in a little late, caught under the rim, etc. Most guys stay out of the frame...for this kid to be blocking 2.5 shots per game (in 2019) from the SF spot speaks volumes. I run to the "Top 10" every morning and rarely is there even anyone contesting dunks at the rim. That's what winners do.

[drsd]

Isaac and Gordon can be effective together. If we believe Isaac can be as effective as having Ross on the floor offensively, we are set. That’s always been the question. Defense has never been in question and team defense will unquestionably become better over time.

Moving forward, the Isaac / Gordon pair is about eliminating opponent scoring at the Forward slot; if they couple to score 30 ppg whilst holding opponents to 20 ppg, that is a net +10 per game at the forward slot.
Scoring will come from the guards, and if resigned, the Center slot. And critically, the Magic need to find bench scoring when Ross moves on. (Briscoe and Bamba ????)

[KillMonger]

So happy that we're seeing him starting to realize his potential right in front of our eyes after a rough start with injuries. HIs development is coming along nicely and for someone like Issac i can't imagine what being in the playoffs could do for him mentally. He just needs to keep on his strength program in the offseason so that he can finish these contact layups he's missing at the rim. For example this was the greek freak before he became the greek freak.



shouldn't have to show you how he looks now, there is no reason why we cant see similar growth from isaac. Once he sharpens his handle and work on his shot a bit more he might really become AK47 2.0, i mean you see what isaac is doing already with pretty much no plays designed for him.

[NotACat]

So happy that we're seeing him starting to realize his potential right in front of our eyes after a rough start with injuries. HIs development is coming along nicely and for someone like Issac i can't imagine what being in the playoffs could do for him mentally. He just needs to keep on his strength program in the offseason so that he can finish these contact layups he's missing at the rim. For example this was the greek freak before he became the greek freak.



shouldn't have to show you how he looks now, there is no reason why we cant see similar growth from isaac. Once he sharpens his handle and work on his shot a bit more he might really become AK47 2.0, i mean you see what isaac is doing already with pretty much no plays designed for him.

Off topic, but those red Milwaukee jerseys are super fresh

[VFX]

Isaac and Gordon can be effective together. If we believe Isaac can be as effective as having Ross on the floor offensively, we are set. That’s always been the question. Defense has never been in question and team defense will unquestionably become better over time.

Moving forward, the Isaac / Gordon pair is about eliminating opponent scoring at the Forward slot; if they couple to score 30 ppg whilst holding opponents to 20 ppg, that is a net +10 per game at the forward slot.
Scoring will come from the guards, and if resigned, the Center slot. And critically, the Magic need to find bench scoring when Ross moves on. (Briscoe and Bamba ????)

Sure, I’ll buy that. However, in that scenario you are relying on DJ/Fultz and Fournier to shoulder the offense alongside Bamba or Vuc. None of those players I listed (with the exception of Vuc) are reliable offensively whatsoever, and those players don’t fall out of the sky. So is it really in the best interest to be selling a defensive forward combo that also doesn’t create offense most games? Probably not.

The bigger criticism of pairing them up is less about how effective they are together and more about what Orlando doesn’t have to make pairing them up make sense for the roster. You simply can’t have 4/5 players on the floor that are inconsistent offensively and don’t regularly generate offense individually.

[Audi]

I couldn't care less that Turner put Isaac #1 on the daily top ten plays (posters)...that means he (unlike most of the NBA) is contesting shots, even when in a bad spot...Almost all of the all-time great highlight dunks feature a shot-blocker coming in a little late, caught under the rim, etc. Most guys stay out of the frame...for this kid to be blocking 2.5 shots per game (in 2019) from the SF spot speaks volumes. I run to the "Top 10" every morning and rarely is there even anyone contesting dunks at the rim. That's what winners do.

Yup. Honestly it’s a just symptomatic of how little people cherish defense these days. The fear of being posterized is stupid. As a kid it was always the guys standing there gap-mouthed watching the dunk who I thought looked the most stupid - not the dude genuinely making an effort to block.

Pretty soon you won’t even see dunks highlighted anymore. It’ll all be uncontested threes, immortalized

[KillMonger]

Pretty sure Isaac himself said he doesn't care if he gets dunked on he's going to contest the shot every time. Kid has the right mentality

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[Skin]

I am Gooooooooooot

[Magic_Johnny12]

Getting dunked on is seriously so outdated. Jarret Allen one of the premier shot blockers goes for EVERYTHING and doesn't care if he gets yammed on or not. When you're playing to actually win things like that don't matter, I'm sure Clifford praised Isaac for simply trying which all that matters at the end of the day.

[PrimeThyme]

I am Gooooooooooot

Just let it die man

[BadMofoPimp]

I always thought after 2-4 years, Slim and AG would switch spots with Slim at PF and AG moving to SF.

[Skin]

I am Gooooooooooot

Just let it die man

NEVER! He looks like Groot, has limbs like Groot and has hair like Groot! Best nickname for him ever!

[Bonafide89]

I've got to disagree on the Wiggins and Randle criticisms. I still have high hopes for both players futures, which will be heavily dependent on the coaching situations they end up in.

I would trade Randle for Vuc right now. In fact, I think we could swap them today and we might actually improve since Randle is a much more reliable offensive option than Vuc. Some team will miss out on big name FAs this summer and sign Randle as a cheaper back up - and they're going to be incredibly shocked at what he brings to them.

Exum... he hasn't shown much. I want him to be great, but Utah are pretty fantastic at developing players, so I would imagine they've identified his ceiling somewhat.

But, 'potential' still describes all of them. They all have latent and unfulfilled abilities that someday might rise to the surface.

Wiggins i believe is what he is.... and doesn't seem to have the drive to get muuuuuch better. Randle is still a dang bull in a china shop and can pretty much get better and better at whatever he is doing. So he is potential in the sense that he is going to become a very good version of his self. Gordon is just adding more tools to his swiss army knife and will continue to sharpen them all.

People will look at AG's numbers and say he's stagnated. If you're watching him, you can clearly see he is involving into an all around player. He's doesn't seem concerned about his stats and seems fine with Vuc operating as our primary option, which is what is best for the team at the moment.

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Yes, and even in one interview he talked about the importance of playing through Vooch. He has probably said it a few times.

He's not competing with Evan and Vooch for alpha dog status anymore. There was no pecking order under Vogel, but it's clear that Vooch is the guy under Clifford.

Let's just keep it 100, last year AG was playing for stats and aiming for a max contract.

AG gushed over Clifford in the offseason and seems like the guy who will do whatever is best for the team.

Besides the erratic shooting, AG has improved his game in all aspects.

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