The Suns

[Amare_1_Knicks]

For starters, those are all young, unproven players — a lot of whom don’t play any defense. No point guard on the team either to run the show, so Booker’s been the defacto PG as a result most of the time.

Even young OKC struggled about 10 years ago. Second year KD and J.Geeen, with rookie Westbrook won 23 games in 08-09.

The big thing right now seems to be the glaring hole at PG, playing defense, and quite possibly a HC change.

They just had a HC change! This current season is the result of that change. You can't keep changing head coaches and GMs every year, at a certain point it becomes a joke and a mockery of our league.


PHX Suns are FUBARed beyond belief. Not even Zion will save them. Normally you'd say they should bring in some vets for stability. But most quality vets won't even consider signing there. And the ones who do just want to get paid, and once the season starts they'll check out and ask for a buyout .

OKC struggled early on, but by the time Durant was on his second contract they were contenders. Devin Booker has already exhausted his entire rookie deal and the team is still awful. This is an advanced form of tanking that we haven't seen. I think Phoenix is dangerously close to Silver and the league office stepping in to overrule Sarver.

I agree, you don’t want to switch coaches every season but look at who they’ve had the last few seasons: Earl Watson and Jay Triano. What I was getting at, was ideally you want a coach to come in a take the team by the reigns — I don’t know that Igor is that(to be fair, I don’t know that he isn’t either) — but a Suns fan could speak better on that than I can.

[Magic_Johnny12]

#INZIONWETRUST

[Hesh]

They just had a HC change! This current season is the result of that change. You can't keep changing head coaches and GMs every year, at a certain point it becomes a joke and a mockery of our league.

OKC struggled early on, but by the time Durant was on his second contract they were contenders. Devin Booker has already exhausted his entire rookie deal and the team is still awful.

That's exactly what it is! I won't say that Booker is without fault because he isn't, but he's had 3 coaches in his short-career, and a revolving door of teammates. Most of them non-vets and are on rookie contracts themselves.

This is an advanced form of tanking that we haven't seen. I think Phoenix is dangerously close to Silver and the league office stepping in to overrule Sarver.

Sad thing is, they're not even tanking this season. Just plain awful.

[Illmatic12]

For starters, those are all young, unproven players — a lot of whom don’t play any defense. No point guard on the team either to run the show, so Booker’s been the defacto PG as a result most of the time.

Even young OKC struggled about 10 years ago. Second year KD and J.Geeen, with rookie Westbrook won 23 games in 08-09.

The big thing right now seems to be the glaring hole at PG, playing defense, and quite possibly a HC change.

They just had a HC change! This current season is the result of that change. You can't keep changing head coaches and GMs every year, at a certain point it becomes a joke and a mockery of our league.


PHX Suns are FUBARed beyond belief. Not even Zion will save them. Normally you'd say they should bring in some vets for stability. But most quality vets won't even consider signing there. And the ones who do just want to get paid, and once the season starts they'll check out and ask for a buyout .

OKC struggled early on, but by the time Durant was on his second contract they were contenders. Devin Booker has already exhausted his entire rookie deal and the team is still awful. This is an advanced form of tanking that we haven't seen. I think Phoenix is dangerously close to Silver and the league office stepping in to overrule Sarver.

I agree, you don’t want to switch coaches every season but look at who they’ve had the last few seasons: Earl Watson and Jay Triano. What I was getting at, was ideally you want a coach to come in a take the team by the reigns — I don’t know that Igor is that(to be fair, I don’t know that he isn’t either) — but a Suns fan could speak better on that than I can.

The problem is, no quality coach would ever take a job with their organization. So even if they fire Igor Koskoskov it’s not like better coaches will be lining up to interview for the position (unless they offer an exorbitantly high starting salary which their cheap ownership would never do).

Same thing with front office execs, no quality GM will go there. When you have a bad reputation it is repulsive to attracting talent, and you’ll be left scraping the bottom of the barrel for players and staff, hence the team continues sucking and cycle continues. So it’s a self-defeating cycle that won’t change until their ownership changes

[zimpy27]

They lost Amare, J Rich and executive Steve Kerr nearly a decade ago and have just never recovered properly.

Right now they've been losing so long that it's affected their culture. The only way out for them is a rebuild of the identity.

I believe it is an argument against full-blown tanking, it's hard for college players to be winners straight when they get to the NBA and if you aren't lucky enough to get a winner in the draft at a young age then you risk creating a poor culture. You want your young players to get a playoff game when on their rookie contract. I honestly think young players don't need to just be taught how to play at the NBA level but they also need to be taught how to win.

[MeloRoseNoah]

Will always compete for top 3 lottery balls when your so called franchise players are Superstar Tank Commanders in D Booker and D Ayton.

[Alatan]

Will always compete for top 3 lottery balls when your so called franchise players are Superstar Tank Commanders in D Booker and D Ayton.

I love how their names start with D.

[MeloRoseNoah]

Will always compete for top 3 lottery balls when your so called franchise players are Superstar Tank Commanders in D Booker and D Ayton.

I love how their names start with D.

D students. Guaranteed Tank Commanders.

Both of them are massive Forbite addicts and are scared of the gym.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Ayton has potential, but Booker is just fools gold.

[Young gun 6]

There was literally already a thread on this like two weeks ago and there’s been about 2 games since.

In order of biggest to least factors:

1) Worst owner in the league bar none.

2) No chemistry. No one on the team outside of Warren (who hasn’t even been playing) and Booker have spent more than about 80 games in lineups together. Also the fact there’s been 4 coaches in the last 4 years means you have to give the players and coaches time to mesh. Continuity and chemistry with players and coaches is probably the biggest factor in the NBA for teams being successful (that’s showing how bad Sarver is to be above that).

3) Lack of defense: only one positive defender in Bridges and an average one in Jackson.

4) Been starting 3 rookies and a starting 5 all under 23 for most of the season now.

5) 0 players on the team between ages 26-38 (the prime of a player’s career).

6) No PG.


It’s really not a puzzling question as to why they are so bad.

[Lakers In 5]

Gotta be honest, I don't really care where Zion goes, as long as it's not the Suns. I'm not one to say such things so quickly, but I really feel like such ineptitude shouldn't be rewarded with such a player. They ooze incompetence at every level. From ownership, to front office to player personnel. They have one winning season since Steve Nash left the team. No matter how many lottery picks they have had since, instead of making steps forward, they seem to be getting worse. From 39 wins, to 23 wins, to 21 wins, to sitting at 11 wins after 60 games. An identical record to the Knicks, who just lost 18 games in a row. Maxed Devin Booker for $158 million. Four years in and he has played to same amount of meaningful NBA games as me: none. To wrap it all up, they fired their general manager, right after the off-season.

Currently there are a lot of teams that are being ran by clowns, but this has to be the lowest of the low.

[phnart]

I'm a lifelong Suns fan. Used to watch every game...this current Suns team is unwatchable. They will not get another $ from me until Sarver goes away. He's a complete and total buffoon. I also don't believe in a single player on the team, at this point. I hoped Ayton was the real thing, but after watching him closely for over 50 games now, it is apparent that he doesn't have the competitive fire to consistently be the best player on the court, which sucks because he has the natural talent to be the best everytime he plays.

Booker...great shooter and that is the beginning and end of the story. No D, not a very good passer (can be, but doesn't seem to care about making anyone else better and seems to pout when other players get the spot light for too long), and such a whiner.

Warren...good scorer, but nothing else....and zero personality.

Bridges...might be a good player on a good team one day.

Oubre...will be playing elsewhere next year. Priced himself out of the Suns budget. Sarver won't spend. Only reason Booker got the max is because he has to pay somebody.

Everyone else....canyon fodder. Richaun Holmes will be gone next year, too.

Eff this team in the B...

[HEAT33]

They are tanking for Zion, if they get Zion they all probably start winning

[Golden Knight]

Even young OKC struggled about 10 years ago. Second year KD and J.Geeen, with rookie Westbrook won 23 games in 08-09.

That OKC team was very competitive though. They lost 8 games that were decided by 2 points or less. Their top 3 players were 20, 20 and 22 year olds.

They started the season 3-29 but finished the season 20-30. They were 1-16 before Westbrook became a full-time starter. They wrapped up their season with a 41 point win. They built up on that strong finish with a 50-32 record the following season.

[The Box Office]

Terrible team. They have 2 top 5 talents from the draft and an explosive scorer in Devon Booker (doesn't care about defense though) still are a bunch of losers. Zion is not the answer. Neither is Ja Morant.

They really need a new coaching regime with a different philosophy from their current administration.

[bwgood77]

Even young OKC struggled about 10 years ago. Second year KD and J.Geeen, with rookie Westbrook won 23 games in 08-09.

That OKC team was very competitive though. They lost 8 games that were decided by 2 points or less. Their top 3 players were 20, 20 and 22 year olds.

They started the season 3-29 but finished the season 20-30. They were 1-16 before Westbrook became a full-time starter. They wrapped up their season with a 41 point win. They built up on that strong finish with a 50-32 record the following season.

The Suns are not nearly as competitive but they have had there share of competitive games and have lost 9 by 5 pts or less, including three in the last few weeks at the buzzer on game winning shots by Siakam, Rose and Gay on the road at Toronto, Minnesota and San Antonio.

[Teal25]

They should’ve traded both Booker and Jackson at the draft. People talk about the Hawks and especially Kings passing on Luka but the Suns will regret it the most. They should’ve took Luka, traded Booker and paired Luka with whoever was left of Bagley or JJJ. I’m sure Memphis would’ve did a trade around Booker for Parsons and 4. If they still could’ve traded for Bridges that would’ve been a way better core.

Luka/Bagley or JJJ/Bridges is a way better core than Booker/Ayton/Bridges will ever be unless Booker and Ayton at least attempt to play defense.

[PhilBlackson]

Most glaring problem is defense (and of course management/ownership).

[enigmatics]

They are tanking for Zion, if they get Zion they all probably start winning

No chance in hell he'll impact the team like that and it makes me crazy whenever I see any of my fellow Suns fans (not you) suggest it.

We have a complete charlatan of an NBA franchise owner who won't get out of the way and has crippled this team not only with piss poor FO hirings, but creating a bad reputation between he and other NBA players. Hence they don't want to come to PHX. The only chance was if they lucked out in the draft over the last 5-6 years and it's been an utter disaster outside of Ayton and Booker (who I'm not sure I even want around anymore).

I've watched more games this year of other NBA teams than my own Suns. I pray that somehow the Suns take a serious hit on their total value - enough to make the red-faced douchelord sell the team or someone comes riding in and makes him an offer he can't refuse. Until then I personally just can't take it anymore. To make it worse I have to deal with the comedy parade that is the Dolphins owner Stephen Ross and then the FBI scandal with Sean Miller as well. I clearly hit the jackpot of fanhood.

[DirtyDez]

Terrible ownership/leadership and poor drafting. The former leads to the latter etc... 6 coaches in 7 years. Trickle down effect etc etc etc.

Etc etc etc...