Has Lebron always been this whiny dude that doesn't take accountability for himself/failures?

[Yank3525]

Well Kyrie was 19/20/21 on a team that was gutted. So ya I don't think anyone should expect a player to make the playoffs in that situation.

Yeah, most young stars don't lead their teams to the playoffs early in the career because they are usually drafted by horrible teams. Iverson didn't get to the playoffs till year 3, same for LeBron. Pierce didn't get to the playoffs till 2002, when he was in his 4th season. Kyrie wouldn't have won a championship without LeBron, but I am fairly confident he would have gotten the Cavs to the playoffs in the near future. It was just a matter of time.

[thebigbird]

Sorry but he is the last one that should be talking. This is the dude that just came out and basically said, okay now I'm going to play with intensity. If I'm the rest of the Lakers, I will be wondering why the hell did you wait this long to "activate" yourself?

Then after all that, the dude just doesn't care about defense or getting back on transition. The guy gives 0 effort and it's obvious.

I would laugh my ass off if one of the teammates called out his effort. Also it's not like he's not getting help either.

Ingram (last 19 games): 19.5/5/4 on 52% shooting and actually playing defense (one of the few on the team)

Kuzma (last 16 games): 21/5/2 on 47/36/75 shooting

Ingram is 63rd of 88 small forwards in DRPM. Kuzma is 85th of 94 power forwards in DRPM. LeBron is 5th among small forwards and 2nd on his team. Claiming that he doesn't play defense is absolute nonsense. He also leads the Lakers in points, rebounds and assists.

DRPM, is one of the better defensive stats.. but it's still very flawed.

According to DRPM Lebron is playing much better defense this year than last year. That's a fairly absurd proposition.

What I find interesting about the Lakers is how their defense has completely fallen off a cliff without Lonzo. Is he actually that important? (I don't have a strong feeling either way, but the numbers are somewhat eye-opening).

Lebron absolutely is playing better defense this year than he did last year. It's not a perfect stat, but it suggests that he's been an above average defender this year, and he has. I watched every game Lebron played last year and almost every game this year, and his defense has looked better this year.

[LKN]

Ingram is 63rd of 88 small forwards in DRPM. Kuzma is 85th of 94 power forwards in DRPM. LeBron is 5th among small forwards and 2nd on his team. Claiming that he doesn't play defense is absolute nonsense. He also leads the Lakers in points, rebounds and assists.

DRPM, is one of the better defensive stats.. but it's still very flawed.

According to DRPM Lebron is playing much better defense this year than last year. That's a fairly absurd proposition.

What I find interesting about the Lakers is how their defense has completely fallen off a cliff without Lonzo. Is he actually that important? (I don't have a strong feeling either way, but the numbers are somewhat eye-opening).

Lebron absolutely is playing better defense this year than he did last year. It's not a perfect stat, but it suggests that he's been an above average defender this year, and he has. I watched every game Lebron played last year and almost every game this year, and his defense has looked better this year.

Maybe you are right... I won't claim to be a svengali and I'm sure you watch a lot more Lakers than me.

I suppose there is the issue with all the bad/lack of effort plays being plastered all over social media

[RCM88x]

Sorry but he is the last one that should be talking. This is the dude that just came out and basically said, okay now I'm going to play with intensity. If I'm the rest of the Lakers, I will be wondering why the hell did you wait this long to "activate" yourself?

Then after all that, the dude just doesn't care about defense or getting back on transition. The guy gives 0 effort and it's obvious.

I would laugh my ass off if one of the teammates called out his effort. Also it's not like he's not getting help either.

Ingram (last 19 games): 19.5/5/4 on 52% shooting and actually playing defense (one of the few on the team)

Kuzma (last 16 games): 21/5/2 on 47/36/75 shooting

Ingram is 63rd of 88 small forwards in DRPM. Kuzma is 85th of 94 power forwards in DRPM. LeBron is 5th among small forwards and 2nd on his team. Claiming that he doesn't play defense is absolute nonsense. He also leads the Lakers in points, rebounds and assists.

DRPM, is one of the better defensive stats.. but it's still very flawed.

According to DRPM Lebron is playing much better defense this year than last year. That's a fairly absurd proposition.

What I find interesting about the Lakers is how their defense has completely fallen off a cliff without Lonzo. Is he actually that important? (I don't have a strong feeling either way, but the numbers are somewhat eye-opening).

His individual defense is about the same but his supporting cast defensively went from the worst of all time to just solid in LA. Defense is much more of a team thing than offense, so supporting cast probably has more of an impact than actual individual performance in most cases.

I mean the Cavs this season are posting by far the worst DRTG in NBA HISTORY. At 116.6, they're almost 2 pts/100 worse than any team in the HISTORY of the league. The team is basically the same too, swapping some Korver and GHill for Delly and Sexton and Nwaba etc... If he was actually so terrible last year in theory the team should be better on that end this season, but they've been so much worse. I actually think their game against Phoenix a few days ago was the first time they've held an opponent to under 100 points all season.

[thebigbird]

Lebron is the best player on the planet and has been to the NBA finals 8 straight seasons.

The question should be, why is Lebron to blame for the Lakers failures this season when a) the team has been much better when he’s in the lineup and b) all he’s done throughout his career is win at a high level?

I mean they were 35-47 last year with a young core, I'm not sure what it could be that caused the young core's talent to stagnate instead of progress

Last year's Lakers team had Julius Randle and Brook Lopez on it, both key players for them. They're not there anymore. Letting Randle walk was a huge mistake by the Lakers.

[MeloRoseNoah]

Player on the top 5 Rushmore doesn't miss the playoff. If the Lakers miss the playoff this year, Lebron shouldn't be considered a top 5 player of all time. It's his fault for being dumb enough to go to a clown show in LA. He has nobody to blame but himself for that.

[LKN]

Ingram is 63rd of 88 small forwards in DRPM. Kuzma is 85th of 94 power forwards in DRPM. LeBron is 5th among small forwards and 2nd on his team. Claiming that he doesn't play defense is absolute nonsense. He also leads the Lakers in points, rebounds and assists.

DRPM, is one of the better defensive stats.. but it's still very flawed.

According to DRPM Lebron is playing much better defense this year than last year. That's a fairly absurd proposition.

What I find interesting about the Lakers is how their defense has completely fallen off a cliff without Lonzo. Is he actually that important? (I don't have a strong feeling either way, but the numbers are somewhat eye-opening).

His individual defense is about the same but his supporting cast defensively went from the worst of all time to just solid in LA. Defense is much more of a team thing than offense, so supporting cast probably has more of an impact than actual individual performance in most cases.

I mean the Cavs this season are posting by far the worst DRTG in NBA HISTORY. At 116.6, they're almost 2 pts/100 worse than any team in the HISTORY of the league. The team is basically the same too, swapping some Korver and GHill for Delly and Sexton and Nwaba etc... If he was actually so terrible last year in theory the team should be better on that end this season, but they've been so much worse. I actually think their game against Phoenix a few days ago was the first time they've held an opponent to under 100 points all season.

This was kind of the point I was trying to make..... and you made it much better than I did. Nice post

[The_Hater]

He made the Finals out of the EC though. I give Kobe & TD more credit for making the Finals out of the WC 7 & 6 times...while winning it 5 times. Lebron's has a losing record in the playoffs against WC teams.

Everyone is aware that the east isn’t as strong but he made the finals 8 straight seasons and won 3 titles. And the season before the streak his Cavs team won 60 games with Mo Williams as the 2nd best players.

So what numbers are you looking for before you’re going to concede that he’s a winner? 8 finals and 7 titles? 8 titles? 9 titles??? Or is he automatically a loser because he was in the weaker conference? Is thst how it works?

Not sure how people are going to spin his track record into losing but they certainly seem to be giving it a shot these days. As ridiculous as that notion is. Even Laker fans such as yourself can’t appreciate his greatness. Too funny

The problem for Lebron is he's 3-6 in the Finals. Other stars have winning records, so when people bring up 8 FInals.....others will point out that Lebron wouldn't have made the Finals 8 straight timein the West.
It's weird how people use his FInals appearances to elevate Bron, but get upset when his bad Finals record is brought up. They go hand in hand. Then you compound things by Bron forming his Wade/Bosh and Love/Kyrie teams, and the results really are unimpressive.

Here we go.

He made the fInals as the best player on his team NINE TIMES, only idiots try spin that into a negative. By this measure losing in the conference finals or even failing to make the playoffs is better than losing in the finals which is ridiculous.

On the flip side, Kobe was the best player on a team that made the finals exactly twice, now try spinning that?

[An Unbiased Fan]

The problem for Lebron is he's 3-6 in the Finals. Other stars have winning records, so when people bring up 8 FInals.....others will point out that Lebron wouldn't have made the Finals 8 straight timein the West.
It's weird how people use his FInals appearances to elevate Bron, but get upset when his bad Finals record is brought up. They go hand in hand. Then you compound things by Bron forming his Wade/Bosh and Love/Kyrie teams, and the results really are unimpressive.

If you are going to bring up the 3-6 finals record then there's no point in bring up him playing in the weaker conference. You can't use both things against him at the same time. Had he played in the west and gone 3-0 in the finals what would the criticism be?

If Lebron had gone 3-0, he would be about the same. Things is though, making it through 3 rounds out West is harder than winning one Finals. So I doubt Lebron makes it 3 times in the West. That 2016 squad doesn't make it. I see 2012/2013, but that's it.

[The_Hater]

Lebron is the best player on the planet and has been to the NBA finals 8 straight seasons.

The question should be, why is Lebron to blame for the Lakers failures this season when a) the team has been much better when he’s in the lineup and b) all he’s done throughout his career is win at a high level?

I mean they were 35-47 last year with a young core, I'm not sure what it could be that caused the young core's talent to stagnate instead of progress

The Lakers are 6-12 without Bron in the lineup this season. On pace for 27 wins.

So Bron has put the 14th best team in the west into the middle of the playoff race which has been completly lost in the anti-Bron argument.

[thebigbird]

DRPM, is one of the better defensive stats.. but it's still very flawed.

According to DRPM Lebron is playing much better defense this year than last year. That's a fairly absurd proposition.

What I find interesting about the Lakers is how their defense has completely fallen off a cliff without Lonzo. Is he actually that important? (I don't have a strong feeling either way, but the numbers are somewhat eye-opening).

Lebron absolutely is playing better defense this year than he did last year. It's not a perfect stat, but it suggests that he's been an above average defender this year, and he has. I watched every game Lebron played last year and almost every game this year, and his defense has looked better this year.

Maybe you are right... I won't claim to be a svengali and I'm sure you watch a lot more Lakers than me.

I suppose there is the issue with all the bad/lack of effort plays being plastered all over social media

The bad effort plays have certainly still been there. But the problem with those is that they get posted on social media and seen by millions, so the perception is that that's how he always is on defense when really they're the minority and most of the time he's pretty decent on defense.

[-G-]

I believe so.

[thebigbird]

The problem for Lebron is he's 3-6 in the Finals. Other stars have winning records, so when people bring up 8 FInals.....others will point out that Lebron wouldn't have made the Finals 8 straight timein the West.
It's weird how people use his FInals appearances to elevate Bron, but get upset when his bad Finals record is brought up. They go hand in hand. Then you compound things by Bron forming his Wade/Bosh and Love/Kyrie teams, and the results really are unimpressive.

If you are going to bring up the 3-6 finals record then there's no point in bring up him playing in the weaker conference. You can't use both things against him at the same time. Had he played in the west and gone 3-0 in the finals what would the criticism be?

If Lebron had gone 3-0, he would be about the same. Things is though, making it through 3 rounds out West is harder than winning one Finals. So I doubt Lebron makes it 3 times in the West. That 2016 squad doesn't make it. I see 2012/2013, but that's it.

Saying that going 3-0 in the Finals is about the same as going 3-6 is ridiculous. 6 losses in the finals means he won his conference 6 times. That is unquestionably better than not winning your conference.

[-G-]

:D

Wonder where the Lakers pick lands in the lottery?

Come on Kings fan, don't ruin it for your guys.

[LKN]

Lebron absolutely is playing better defense this year than he did last year. It's not a perfect stat, but it suggests that he's been an above average defender this year, and he has. I watched every game Lebron played last year and almost every game this year, and his defense has looked better this year.

Maybe you are right... I won't claim to be a svengali and I'm sure you watch a lot more Lakers than me.

I suppose there is the issue with all the bad/lack of effort plays being plastered all over social media

The bad effort plays have certainly still been there. But the problem with those is that they get posted on social media and seen by millions, so the perception is that that's how he always is on defense when really they're the minority and most of the time he's pretty decent on defense.

Yeah that's exactly what I mean.... it's the highlight bias in reverse.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Everyone is aware that the east isn’t as strong but he made the finals 8 straight seasons and won 3 titles. And the season before the streak his Cavs team won 60 games with Mo Williams as the 2nd best players.

So what numbers are you looking for before you’re going to concede that he’s a winner? 8 finals and 7 titles? 8 titles? 9 titles??? Or is he automatically a loser because he was in the weaker conference? Is thst how it works?

Not sure how people are going to spin his track record into losing but they certainly seem to be giving it a shot these days. As ridiculous as that notion is. Even Laker fans such as yourself can’t appreciate his greatness. Too funny

The problem for Lebron is he's 3-6 in the Finals. Other stars have winning records, so when people bring up 8 FInals.....others will point out that Lebron wouldn't have made the Finals 8 straight timein the West.
It's weird how people use his FInals appearances to elevate Bron, but get upset when his bad Finals record is brought up. They go hand in hand. Then you compound things by Bron forming his Wade/Bosh and Love/Kyrie teams, and the results really are unimpressive.

Here we go.

He made the fInals as the best player on his team NINE TIMES, only idiots try spin that into a negative. By this measure losing in the conference finals or even failing to make the playoffs is better than losing in the finals which is ridiculous.

He made the Finals in the East 9 times, and lost 6 of them to the West team. I didn't bring up his 8 Finals appearance, I'm simply pointing out that if someone does...then we can talk about how bad Lebron's playoff record is against WC teams(18-28).

[An Unbiased Fan]

If you are going to bring up the 3-6 finals record then there's no point in bring up him playing in the weaker conference. You can't use both things against him at the same time. Had he played in the west and gone 3-0 in the finals what would the criticism be?

If Lebron had gone 3-0, he would be about the same. Things is though, making it through 3 rounds out West is harder than winning one Finals. So I doubt Lebron makes it 3 times in the West. That 2016 squad doesn't make it. I see 2012/2013, but that's it.

Saying that going 3-0 in the Finals is about the same as going 3-6 is ridiculous. 6 losses in the finals means he won his conference 6 times. That is unquestionably better than not winning your conference.

Winning a weak conference isn't a title. Ask Jim Kelly

I still don't see how you want me to praise Finals appearances.....but then dismisses Finals losses.

[thebigbird]

The problem for Lebron is he's 3-6 in the Finals. Other stars have winning records, so when people bring up 8 FInals.....others will point out that Lebron wouldn't have made the Finals 8 straight timein the West.
It's weird how people use his FInals appearances to elevate Bron, but get upset when his bad Finals record is brought up. They go hand in hand. Then you compound things by Bron forming his Wade/Bosh and Love/Kyrie teams, and the results really are unimpressive.

Here we go.

He made the fInals as the best player on his team NINE TIMES, only idiots try spin that into a negative. By this measure losing in the conference finals or even failing to make the playoffs is better than losing in the finals which is ridiculous.

He made the Finals in the East 9 times, and lost 6 of them to the West team. I didn't bring up his 8 Finals appearance, I'm simply pointing out that if someone does...then we can talk about how bad Lebron's playoff record is against WC teams(18-28).

Against the best team in the west*.

[thebigbird]

If Lebron had gone 3-0, he would be about the same. Things is though, making it through 3 rounds out West is harder than winning one Finals. So I doubt Lebron makes it 3 times in the West. That 2016 squad doesn't make it. I see 2012/2013, but that's it.

Saying that going 3-0 in the Finals is about the same as going 3-6 is ridiculous. 6 losses in the finals means he won his conference 6 times. That is unquestionably better than not winning your conference.

Winning a weak conference isn't a title. Ask Jim Kelly

I still don't see how you want me to praise Finals appearances.....but then dismisses Finals losses.

You don't have to praise Finals losses. But acting like they're the worst thing a player can do is very silly. You don't talk about Jordan or Kobe's first round losses, but you constantly harp on LeBron's Finals losses. By doing that you're arguing that it's better to win zero rounds than win three.

[spikeslovechild]

I mean he made his bed when he choose the Lakers and that roster now he is upset he has to lay it?