Has Lebron always been this whiny dude that doesn't take accountability for himself/failures?

[Yank3525]

Lakers are bigger than Lebron, they are bigger than Kobe, they are bigger than Sahq. You think Kobe didn't get crap from Laker fans? Or Shaq when they were getting bounced by Utah? Or Magic when he was getting called Tragic? Or Kareem when they missed the playoffs? This isn't Cleveland, and no one is happy without contending.

Yup. Kobe was getting killed by Lakers fans in the first half of 2001, 2005, and 2013. Shaq took a lot of heat as well during his time here. Yeah, there are definitely some fans going after Lebron because they are strictly Kobe fanatics. But LeBron is getting the same treatment that Kobe and Shaq got when the team struggled.

We are a spoiled fan base and we are used to contending and we aren't at the moment and it is frustrating.

[LakerLegend]

Why is he always throwing his team under the bus? Is he trying to sound smart or better for the cameras/media? How come he never takes blame/accountability for his own play or his own lack of defense and poor leadership.

When he's doing good or setting records, he is the first person that posts on IG patting his back. Or when his team is winning "this is our squad and I love them". Then literally the next day he calls his teammates losers that don't know how to win games.

How can any teammate want to play for him? This is why Kawhi, Durant, PG don't want to play with him and will go somewhere that there is no Lebron. He literally can't go 1 loss without throwing the whole team under the bus.

That's what happens when you play on Super Teams in a cupcake conference for the last decade.

You get spoiled.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

I don't enjoy watching Lebron play. He just kind of floats and fills the stat box with little effort. I don't think he's nearly as good as his numbers indicate. He's always been aware of his stats and analytics and I think he shapes his game in a very stat friendly way, and rarely takes risks. I think he's a guy who is extremely sensitive to failure. He feels as long as he puts up stats he has done his part, and if the team fails it's because other guys didn't do the same. Guys who are killers just put themselves all out there and don't hold anything back. They want to rip your heart out at all costs. Lebron doesn't naturally have that in him. That's why he talks about being "activated". It's something he has to make a conscious effort to do. He's a great physical talent, but I don't see this "greatness" that fans from the east claimed since he was a teenager. Former greats seem to agree as well. He is no MJ or Kobe.

LeBron was indeed great and is flat out better then Kobe from a career perspective. Beyond that, I agree with your assessment on current LeBron.

He currently plays to avoid blame (first and foremost).

I don't think its cut and clear that LeBron is better than Kobe from a career prescriptive, at least not according to former players in the NBA. He is doing a lot of harm to his legacy in his first year in LA tbh.

[carlquincy]

Turns out being great at basketball and being whiny bitch ain't mutually exclusive.

[thebigbird]

I don't enjoy watching Lebron play. He just kind of floats and fills the stat box with little effort. I don't think he's nearly as good as his numbers indicate. He's always been aware of his stats and analytics and I think he shapes his game in a very stat friendly way, and rarely takes risks. I think he's a guy who is extremely sensitive to failure. He feels as long as he puts up stats he has done his part, and if the team fails it's because other guys didn't do the same. Guys who are killers just put themselves all out there and don't hold anything back. They want to rip your heart out at all costs. Lebron doesn't naturally have that in him. That's why he talks about being "activated". It's something he has to make a conscious effort to do. He's a great physical talent, but I don't see this "greatness" that fans from the east claimed since he was a teenager. Former greats seem to agree as well. He is no MJ or Kobe.

LeBron was indeed great and is flat out better then Kobe from a career perspective. Beyond that, I agree with your assessment on current LeBron.

He currently plays to avoid blame (first and foremost).

I don't think its cut and clear that LeBron is better than Kobe from a career prescriptive, at least not according to former players in the NBA. He is doing a lot of harm to his legacy in his first year in LA tbh.

It absolutely is clear cut. The only people who disagree are the "muh five ringz" folks.

PER: MJ - 1st; LeBron - 2nd; Kobe - 25th

Win shares: MJ - 4th; LeBron - 5th; Kobe - 18th

BPM: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 37th

VORP: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 17th.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

LeBron was indeed great and is flat out better then Kobe from a career perspective. Beyond that, I agree with your assessment on current LeBron.

He currently plays to avoid blame (first and foremost).

I don't think its cut and clear that LeBron is better than Kobe from a career prescriptive, at least not according to former players in the NBA. He is doing a lot of harm to his legacy in his first year in LA tbh.

It absolutely is clear cut. The only people who disagree are the "muh five ringz" folks.

PER: MJ - 1st; LeBron - 2nd; Kobe - 25th

Win shares: MJ - 4th; LeBron - 5th; Kobe - 18th

BPM: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 37th

VORP: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 17th.

Those are individual statistical measures that a lot of former players don't really seem to care about. A lot of guys in the media who played in the NBA lean towards kobe/including kobe in the conversation including T-Mac, Shaq, A.I., MJ, Bird etc. Maybe they see something beyond BPM or VORP or maybe they just all conspire to hate LeBron.

[thebigbird]

I don't think its cut and clear that LeBron is better than Kobe from a career prescriptive, at least not according to former players in the NBA. He is doing a lot of harm to his legacy in his first year in LA tbh.

It absolutely is clear cut. The only people who disagree are the "muh five ringz" folks.

PER: MJ - 1st; LeBron - 2nd; Kobe - 25th

Win shares: MJ - 4th; LeBron - 5th; Kobe - 18th

BPM: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 37th

VORP: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 17th.

Those are individual statistical measures that a lot of former players don't really seem to care about. A lot of guys in the media who played in the NBA lean towards kobe/including kobe in the conversation including T-Mac, Shaq, A.I., MJ, Bird etc. Maybe they see something beyond BPM or VORP or maybe they just all conspire to hate LeBron.

MJ puts Kobe over LeBron to create a buffer between him and LeBron. Jordan knows that Kobe is no challenge to his thrown, so he keeps Kobe between him and LeBron. You can look at any statistic that you like. The only one you're going to find that favors Kobe is free throw percentage.

You're appealing to authority when you say things like "X player has Kobe over LeBron". I don't care what they say. I can look at the data and evaluate it myself. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

[Heat4lyf]

In Miami in 2012-14 Lebron would actually hold himself accountable and say he needs to do better in xyz

I think throwing teammates under the bus hed be called out more for it on those teams rather than the cavs and these lakers

[-TheDocOfDenial]

It absolutely is clear cut. The only people who disagree are the "muh five ringz" folks.

PER: MJ - 1st; LeBron - 2nd; Kobe - 25th

Win shares: MJ - 4th; LeBron - 5th; Kobe - 18th

BPM: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 37th

VORP: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 17th.

Those are individual statistical measures that a lot of former players don't really seem to care about. A lot of guys in the media who played in the NBA lean towards kobe/including kobe in the conversation including T-Mac, Shaq, A.I., MJ, Bird etc. Maybe they see something beyond BPM or VORP or maybe they just all conspire to hate LeBron.

MJ puts Kobe over LeBron to create a buffer between him and LeBron. Jordan knows that Kobe is no challenge to his thrown, so he keeps Kobe between him and LeBron. You can look at any statistic that you like. The only one you're going to find that favors Kobe is free throw percentage.

You're appealing to authority when you say things like "X player has Kobe over LeBron". I don't care what they say. I can look at the data and evaluate it myself. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

But numbers do lie in basketball because if you look at numbers with out context, you get a skewed version of reality. I'm not really appealing to authority, I'm just saying it is still not a clear cut case in the eyes of the NBA public that LeBron is better than Kobe career wise.

[clyde21]

I don't enjoy watching Lebron play. He just kind of floats and fills the stat box with little effort. I don't think he's nearly as good as his numbers indicate. He's always been aware of his stats and analytics and I think he shapes his game in a very stat friendly way, and rarely takes risks. I think he's a guy who is extremely sensitive to failure. He feels as long as he puts up stats he has done his part, and if the team fails it's because other guys didn't do the same. Guys who are killers just put themselves all out there and don't hold anything back. They want to rip your heart out at all costs. Lebron doesn't naturally have that in him. That's why he talks about being "activated". It's something he has to make a conscious effort to do. He's a great physical talent, but I don't see this "greatness" that fans from the east claimed since he was a teenager. Former greats seem to agree as well. He is no MJ or Kobe.

i was with u until the bolded

[Yank3525]

In Miami in 2012-14 Lebron would actually hold himself accountable and say he needs to do better in xyz

I think throwing teammates under the bus hed be called out more for it on those teams rather than the cavs and these lakers

It wouldn't happen in Miami because the Heat were the only team LeBron has played for in which he wasn't bigger then the organization. The Lakers used to be like that when Dr. Buss was around, but they don't have that kind of credibility anymore.

[Sulico]

Lebron gets his teammates wins, paychecks, media exposure. All he wants in return is some help to his legacy with "Lebron doesn't have enough help" narrative. It seems like a fair trade.

[gh123]

I've been told that Kyrie, Love, Bosh, everyone loved playing with him and that's why lots of FAs are dying to sign with the LA.

[Greyhound]

I don't enjoy watching Lebron play. He just kind of floats and fills the stat box with little effort. I don't think he's nearly as good as his numbers indicate. He's always been aware of his stats and analytics and I think he shapes his game in a very stat friendly way, and rarely takes risks. I think he's a guy who is extremely sensitive to failure. He feels as long as he puts up stats he has done his part, and if the team fails it's because other guys didn't do the same. Guys who are killers just put themselves all out there and don't hold anything back. They want to rip your heart out at all costs. Lebron doesn't naturally have that in him. That's why he talks about being "activated". It's something he has to make a conscious effort to do. He's a great physical talent, but I don't see this "greatness" that fans from the east claimed since he was a teenager. Former greats seem to agree as well. He is no MJ or Kobe.

LeBron was indeed great and is flat out better then Kobe from a career perspective. Beyond that, I agree with your assessment on current LeBron.

He currently plays to avoid blame (first and foremost).

I don't think its cut and clear that LeBron is better than Kobe from a career prescriptive, at least not according to former players in the NBA. He is doing a lot of harm to his legacy in his first year in LA tbh.

It’s beyond cut and clear, it’s a cadaver horse at this point. LeBron is doing no harm to his legacy, at worst he is throwing dirt on the close to his career.

I don’t really care what ex players say to the cameras. Most will say whatever the media wants them to say for a few crumbs and a Capri-sun.

Anything that feeds the LeBron machine is what the media wants. The guys who give them the sound bites they want get air time. The transaction is simple enough to understand.

Two massive fan bases of polarizing players. It is good business to perpetuate the comparison (particularly now that LeBron plays in Kobe country).

That does not mean anyone with sense actually believes it to be one. It’s good food for discussion (which leads to clicks, hits, mentions, ratings increases).

———-

To further that point, most of the guys touting Kobe were his contemporaries. Choosing him validates them as well.

Everything from everyone’s time is always better to them. Give it a decade or so, once LeBron’s contemporaries fully filter into the media ranks.

[bondom34]

Those are individual statistical measures that a lot of former players don't really seem to care about. A lot of guys in the media who played in the NBA lean towards kobe/including kobe in the conversation including T-Mac, Shaq, A.I., MJ, Bird etc. Maybe they see something beyond BPM or VORP or maybe they just all conspire to hate LeBron.

MJ puts Kobe over LeBron to create a buffer between him and LeBron. Jordan knows that Kobe is no challenge to his thrown, so he keeps Kobe between him and LeBron. You can look at any statistic that you like. The only one you're going to find that favors Kobe is free throw percentage.

You're appealing to authority when you say things like "X player has Kobe over LeBron". I don't care what they say. I can look at the data and evaluate it myself. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

But numbers do lie in basketball because if you look at numbers with out context, you get a skewed version of reality. I'm not really appealing to authority, I'm just saying it is still not a clear cut case in the eyes of the NBA public that LeBron is better than Kobe career wise.

No, it absolutely is. One is a probable top 3 player at worst. One is borderline top 10 all time. They're not comparable for almost a decade.

[bondom34]

Having said that, as someone who's long respected Lebron this season has been a real disappointment to me in how I view him. He made a bad choice if winning was his goal, has now thrown everyone under the bus and shown some really bad leadership. Just not something I can get behind.

[NCHeels2008]

Lebron is the best player on the planet and has been to the NBA finals 8 straight seasons.

The question should be, why is Lebron to blame for the Lakers failures this season when a) the team has been much better when he’s in the lineup and b) all he’s done throughout his career is win at a high level?

I mean they were 35-47 last year with a young core, I'm not sure what it could be that caused the young core's talent to stagnate instead of progress

Last year's Lakers team had Julius Randle and Brook Lopez on it, both key players for them. They're not there anymore. Letting Randle walk was a huge mistake by the Lakers.

his skillset is redundant with lebrons

[An Unbiased Fan]

MJ puts Kobe over LeBron to create a buffer between him and LeBron. Jordan knows that Kobe is no challenge to his thrown, so he keeps Kobe between him and LeBron. You can look at any statistic that you like. The only one you're going to find that favors Kobe is free throw percentage.

You're appealing to authority when you say things like "X player has Kobe over LeBron". I don't care what they say. I can look at the data and evaluate it myself. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.

But numbers do lie in basketball because if you look at numbers with out context, you get a skewed version of reality. I'm not really appealing to authority, I'm just saying it is still not a clear cut case in the eyes of the NBA public that LeBron is better than Kobe career wise.

No, it absolutely is. One is a probable top 3 player at worst. One is borderline top 10 all time. They're not comparable for almost a decade.

What criteria makes Lebron Top 3 at worst?

[NCHeels2008]

Lebron is the best player on the planet and has been to the NBA finals 8 straight seasons.

The question should be, why is Lebron to blame for the Lakers failures this season when a) the team has been much better when he’s in the lineup and b) all he’s done throughout his career is win at a high level?

I mean they were 35-47 last year with a young core, I'm not sure what it could be that caused the young core's talent to stagnate instead of progress

The Lakers are 6-12 without Bron in the lineup this season. On pace for 27 wins.

So Bron has put the 14th best team in the west into the middle of the playoff race which has been completly lost in the anti-Bron argument.

you do realize it fundamentally changes the chemistry adding a guy like Lebron, right?

[RCM88x]

Having said that, as someone who's long respected Lebron this season has been a real disappointment to me in how I view him. He made a bad choice if winning was his goal, has now thrown everyone under the bus and shown some really bad leadership. Just not something I can get behind.

I agree. Feel like something changed in him to make the decision to play in LA. Maybe he knows something we don't but it'll probably go down as one of the worst FA decision made by a top 20 player ever.

Now staying here probably would have been just as bad. But surely he had a number of other options available to him in much better situations.