Political Roundtable Part XXV

[Pointgod]

Karma, they thought they could break him, Nike and Colin are winning Biggly

Read on Twitter

When will companies learn that it’s not profitable to side with racists?

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

Just a totally indefensible lie that we treat as normal Presidential behavior now.

"Least corrupt President of all time" - Nate33

[TGW]

California subsidizes many of the crappy red states that suck in taxpayer money.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

1 New Mexico
2 Kentucky
3 Mississippi
4 Alabama
5 West Virginia
6 South Carolina
7 Arizona
8 Alaska
9 Montana
10 Louisiana

[pancakes3]

Read on Twitter

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/431283-trump-trade-chief-changes-trade-terminology-after-president

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/431283-trump-trade-chief-changes-trade-terminology-after-president

Trump told reporters they would “be very short term. I don’t like MOUs because they don’t mean anything. To me, they don’t mean anything.”

“An MOU is a binding agreement between two people,” Lighthizer responded.

Turning to members of the news media assembled in the Oval Office, he continued, “It’s detailed. It covers everything in great detail. It’s a legal term. It’s a contract.”

“By the way I disagree,” Trump fired back. “We’re doing a memorandum of understanding that will be put into a final contract, I assume. But to me, the final contract is really the thing Bob, and I think you mean that too, is really the thing that means something. A memorandum of understanding is exactly that, it’s a memorandum of what our understanding is.”

“The real question is, Bob … how long will it take to put that into a final binding contract?”

Lighthizer quickly adopted a new term after the pushback from the president.

“From now on, we’re not using the word ‘memorandum of understanding' anymore,” Lighthizer said. “We’re going to use the term ‘trade agreement’ … We’re never going to use MOU again.”

Trump is an imbecile. Imagine supporting this absolute dullard.

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

Trump just gaslighting the **** out of everyone, and his supporters are begging for more

[popper]

What I don't understand is that people of color didn't come out and vote. So, is it a symptom of race and apathy?

It's a symptom of race. The data is strikingly clear on this. And the change happened right after Obama was elected, not Trump. Once that happened, suddenly something changed in the minds of lots of voters. There are also lots of voters who vote the same way every time, or never vote, but once Obama was elected, the Democratic and Republican parties suddenly started connecting in people's brains consistently as parties being for and against minorities respectively. Trump's team picked up on that really quickly in the game and he got out in front on the issue.

And yes, there is a certain degree of apathy. You only have to see the African American vote drop dramatically in 2016 while the Caucasian vote trends back upwards after sliding under Obama. There are other factors at play, too. Sometimes it can be social factors. A person might not care so much for a particular candidate and not voting can be a means of holding a party accountable for internal political reasons. Or maybe someone sees the anger and frustrations amongst their friends and decides that it's time. How many people didn't vote in the Obama elections because they felt it was a foregone conclusion or because of some sort of condescending reasons of it being time.

The thing with apathy is that's it's always going to be there. And it's also tough to separate from a lot of the vote suppression tactics out there. Realistically, of those who weren't apathetic, and it was still quite a lot of people. This has been about race basically since Obama and it isn't showing signs of slowing down. Republicans now have their new brown bogeyman to blame everything on and the mounting hatred creates a rather easy target for many Democrats. It puts a wedge in almost every issue imaginable and in the end, as with most things, invariably devolves along rich/poor fault lines even though the poor in particular often fail to identify the issue as such.

According to this poll race relations were steady or improving for the first five years of the Obama administration.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx

[I_Like_Dirt]

According to this poll race relations were steady or improving for the first five years of the Obama administration.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx

I had the data in an older variation of this thread but am too lazy to try digging it up again. It isn't so much about improving or worsening race relations, it's about taking center stage. That was the point where people started actively seeing the Republican party as representing whites and the Democratic party as representing minorities. It's the point where a large portion of the population stopped believing in systemic racism to the same degree because of Obama could be president, then there truly was no problem. When race relations are improving, those issues won't matter so much. When race relations take a harsh turn for the worse, as they did under Trump, suddenly all those underlying issues become major factors. Obviously it isn't the only factor at play, but it suddenly became the primary factor, and to their credit, Trump's team picked up on this and basically hit that one note repeatedly every chance they could.

[dckingsfan]

California subsidizes many of the crappy red states that suck in taxpayer money.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

1 New Mexico
2 Kentucky
3 Mississippi
4 Alabama
5 West Virginia
6 South Carolina
7 Arizona
8 Alaska
9 Montana
10 Louisiana

You don't want that massive redistribution?

[popper]

According to this poll race relations were steady or improving for the first five years of the Obama administration.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx

I had the data in an older variation of this thread but am too lazy to try digging it up again. It isn't so much about improving or worsening race relations, it's about taking center stage. That was the point where people started actively seeing the Republican party as representing whites and the Democratic party as representing minorities. It's the point where a large portion of the population stopped believing in systemic racism to the same degree because of Obama could be president, then there truly was no problem. When race relations are improving, those issues won't matter so much. When race relations take a harsh turn for the worse, as they did under Trump, suddenly all those underlying issues become major factors. Obviously it isn't the only factor at play, but it suddenly became the primary factor, and to their credit, Trump's team picked up on this and basically hit that one note repeatedly every chance they could.

I think you are on to something ILD and I don't discount anything you say here except for one comment; that race relations took "a harsh turn for the worse under Trump." That may be true but I can't tell from the graph. The graph shows a sharp turn for the worse in 2013. That downturn had nothing to do with Trump and occurred five years after Obama was first elected. White attitudes toward race relations started to rebound in 2015 but black attitudes toward race relations continued to slide through 2015/16. I don't know what has happened since Trump was elected. Perhaps someone can find an updated poll. I'd look for the cause of a harsh downturn in race relations in the period before or during 2013. I know you made a whole host of observations above and beyond this one point so again, I don't discount you're thoughts on the matter at all.

[gtn130]

I'm guessing events like Ferguson, Trayvon Martin, etc. had something to do with it.

[pancakes3]

black ppl aside, you can't deny that under trump, the overall attitude towards "globalism" has fostered a more xenophobic attitude towards races across the spectrum, ranging from socialist europeans, drug-running central americans, sh*thole africans, and the Chinese boogeyman.

[dckingsfan]

I'm guessing events like Ferguson, Trayvon Martin, etc. had something to do with it.

I think social media postings that exposed folks to the poor policing (racially motivated) had something to do with that as well?

[Pointgod]

According to this poll race relations were steady or improving for the first five years of the Obama administration.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx

I had the data in an older variation of this thread but am too lazy to try digging it up again. It isn't so much about improving or worsening race relations, it's about taking center stage. That was the point where people started actively seeing the Republican party as representing whites and the Democratic party as representing minorities. It's the point where a large portion of the population stopped believing in systemic racism to the same degree because of Obama could be president, then there truly was no problem. When race relations are improving, those issues won't matter so much. When race relations take a harsh turn for the worse, as they did under Trump, suddenly all those underlying issues become major factors. Obviously it isn't the only factor at play, but it suddenly became the primary factor, and to their credit, Trump's team picked up on this and basically hit that one note repeatedly every chance they could.

I think you are on to something ILD and I don't discount anything you say here except for one comment; that race relations took "a harsh turn for the worse under Trump." That may be true but I can't tell from the graph. The graph shows a sharp turn for the worse in 2013. That downturn had nothing to do with Trump and occurred five years after Obama was first elected. White attitudes toward race relations started to rebound in 2015 but black attitudes toward race relations continued to slide through 2015/16. I don't know what has happened since Trump was elected. Perhaps someone can find an updated poll. I'd look for the cause of a harsh downturn in race relations in the period before or during 2013. I know you made a whole host of observations above and beyond this one point so again, I don't discount you're thoughts on the matter at all.

Trump was part of pushing the racist and idiotic birthed conspiracy way before 2016

[Wizardspride]

What?

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[I_Like_Dirt]

I think you are on to something ILD and I don't discount anything you say here except for one comment; that race relations took "a harsh turn for the worse under Trump." That may be true but I can't tell from the graph. The graph shows a sharp turn for the worse in 2013. That downturn had nothing to do with Trump and occurred five years after Obama was first elected. White attitudes toward race relations started to rebound in 2015 but black attitudes toward race relations continued to slide through 2015/16. I don't know what has happened since Trump was elected. Perhaps someone can find an updated poll. I'd look for the cause of a harsh downturn in race relations in the period before or during 2013. I know you made a whole host of observations above and beyond this one point so again, I don't discount you're thoughts on the matter at all.

Fair enough. My post was a bit contradictory in that sense, too. More, I see Trump as a symptom rather than a cause. Yes, race relations took a turn for the worse a bit before him overall. His team noticed that reality and pounced, as I mentioned, and things have largely been going downhill since, though if the data shows otherwise, fair enough this is definitely anecdotal. But the key is that politics became extremely divided along racial lines in terms of how people viewed parties and issues the second Obama was elected. And it wasn't Obama's fault but rather a function of who he was rather than what he was, which was totally unfair but it's over and so be it. Nothing to do with better or worse race relations per se but that people started seeing politics in those terms is all.

[dckingsfan]

I think you are on to something ILD and I don't discount anything you say here except for one comment; that race relations took "a harsh turn for the worse under Trump." That may be true but I can't tell from the graph. The graph shows a sharp turn for the worse in 2013. That downturn had nothing to do with Trump and occurred five years after Obama was first elected. White attitudes toward race relations started to rebound in 2015 but black attitudes toward race relations continued to slide through 2015/16. I don't know what has happened since Trump was elected. Perhaps someone can find an updated poll. I'd look for the cause of a harsh downturn in race relations in the period before or during 2013. I know you made a whole host of observations above and beyond this one point so again, I don't discount you're thoughts on the matter at all.

Fair enough. My post was a bit contradictory in that sense, too. More, I see Trump as a symptom rather than a cause. Yes, race relations took a turn for the worse a bit before him overall. His team noticed that reality and pounced, as I mentioned, and things have largely been going downhill since, though if the data shows otherwise, fair enough this is definitely anecdotal. But the key is that politics became extremely divided along racial lines in terms of how people viewed parties and issues the second Obama was elected. And it wasn't Obama's fault but rather a function of who he was rather than what he was, which was totally unfair but it's over and so be it. Nothing to do with better or worse race relations per se but that people started seeing politics in those terms is all.

Or maybe... we are more divided politically than racially. I saw a poll that most Americans were fine with interracial marriages but not with someone of another party. Fascinating, no? And it could be that they see blacks primarily in one party.

That clearly isn't the entire story - but a piece of the elephant.

[pancakes3]

Trump may be more symptom than cause but I'm becoming more of the mind that Trump the symptom is also feedback looping and exacerbating the underlying cause.

Even no action in cases like failing to denounce Charlottesville or the Coast Guard guy emboldens actual racists.

And ppl that pay lip service and say theyre cool w interracial marriages but keep the second part (as long as its not me or my kids) are still on the racism spectrum

[I_Like_Dirt]

Or maybe... we are more divided politically than racially. I saw a poll that most Americans were fine with interracial marriages but not with someone of another party. Fascinating, no? And it could be that they see blacks primarily in one party.

That clearly isn't the entire story - but a piece of the elephant.

I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I think the country is more politically divided along racial lines. And given who votes for Republicans in particular, it's saying you insist on marrying another republican is a great way of saying more than that, and saying you insist on marrying another democrat is still eliminating a LOT of white men from the equation. Heck, this is a Washington forum. How many republican white men in Washington (as an example) blame women for not accepting them because of their political values? You would expect to see that trend, and probably a little more on the side of political marriages because it's a safer subject to admit to than race. That doesn't mean the country isn't more divided politically than otherwise but I'm not sure it necessarily means what you're suggesting.