Has Lebron always been this whiny dude that doesn't take accountability for himself/failures?

[Baski]

Yeah I agree but MJ did say..

Lmao. Another MJ myth bites the dust

Wrong, those are quotes from the Jordan Rules... not things he said to the media.

Sigh

I stand corrected

[Baski]

Lebron is one of the best players of all time - but yeah... he shouldn't be doing this crap publicly. Doing this passive aggressive act where you badmouth your team mates has to be very grating. I have zero problem with Lebron being all over these guys behind the scenes. In private, he should be reaming guys out and pushing them hard to play better. In public, when you are the star, you take the blame whether it's your fault or not.

I'm sure post game interviews are annoying, dumb and repetitive for players.. but the answers are simple - "WE need to play better". "WE need to be more focused". etc. etc. etc

Everyone always compares Lebron to MJ.... well MJ was sometimes a complete a-hole to guys behind the scenes, but he always took the high road with the media and took the pressure and blame onto himself. That's your job as a star player (and as a good coach) You win and lose as a team and address problems inside your house.

No MJ did not always take the high road with the media.

Michael Jordan on Stacey King:

"Listen to this," he said. "You ever hear of a guy, six-eleven maybe and two hundred sixty pounds, a guy big and fat like that and he can’t get but two rebounds, if that many, running all over the damn court and he gets two rebounds?"

"Big guy like that," Jordan continued. "and he gets one rebound. Can’t even stick his ass into people and get more than that"

"Big, fat, fat guy...One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward," he said.

Well at least he wasn't passive aggressive

[LKN]

Lebron is one of the best players of all time - but yeah... he shouldn't be doing this crap publicly. Doing this passive aggressive act where you badmouth your team mates has to be very grating. I have zero problem with Lebron being all over these guys behind the scenes. In private, he should be reaming guys out and pushing them hard to play better. In public, when you are the star, you take the blame whether it's your fault or not.

I'm sure post game interviews are annoying, dumb and repetitive for players.. but the answers are simple - "WE need to play better". "WE need to be more focused". etc. etc. etc

Everyone always compares Lebron to MJ.... well MJ was sometimes a complete a-hole to guys behind the scenes, but he always took the high road with the media and took the pressure and blame onto himself. That's your job as a star player (and as a good coach) You win and lose as a team and address problems inside your house.

No MJ did not always take the high road with the media.

Michael Jordan on Stacey King:

"Listen to this," he said. "You ever hear of a guy, six-eleven maybe and two hundred sixty pounds, a guy big and fat like that and he can’t get but two rebounds, if that many, running all over the damn court and he gets two rebounds?"

"Big guy like that," Jordan continued. "and he gets one rebound. Can’t even stick his ass into people and get more than that"

"Big, fat, fat guy...One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward," he said.

Well at least he wasn't passive aggressive

Again, not to the media. That's another quote from the Jordan Rules.

Not saying it's useful or good, but it wasn't a public statement.

[Baski]

No MJ did not always take the high road with the media.

Michael Jordan on Stacey King:

Well at least he wasn't passive aggressive

Again, not to the media. That's another quote from the Jordan Rules.

Not saying it's useful or good, but it wasn't a public statement.

Yeah i know. The joke still stands

[thebigbird]

Its is crazy to dismiss winning when talking about the all time greats. Yes Lebron wins in the not-that-accurate box score metric contests. But Kobe still has significantly more meaningful wins. Outside of Shaq and Kobe the Lakers championship teams were fairly weak, so the supporting cast argument doesn't help Lebron that much either.

Here is how basketball reference ranks things-
1.Kareem
2.Jordan
3.Russell
4.Kobe
5.Wilt
6.Lebron
7.Duncan

No one is dismissing winning. In 12 seasons as the best player on his team, Kobe has 2 rings and 3 finals appearances. In 15 years as the best player on his team, Lebron has 3 rings and 9 finals appearances.

This is nonsense. Kobe was All-NBA when he won 5 rings/7 Finals. It's like saying Montana or Rice shouldn't get full credit for rings due to playing with each other. Or how about Magic/KAJ.

Kobe won a finals in which he put up 15.6/4.6/4.2 on 41.1 TS%. Those are the numbers of a below average role player. So no, he doesn't deserve full credit for winning a ring with those numbers. LeBron had 17.8/7.2/6.8 on 54.1 TS% in 2011 and people consider it the "worst choke ever".

[-TheDocOfDenial]

No one is dismissing winning. In 12 seasons as the best player on his team, Kobe has 2 rings and 3 finals appearances. In 15 years as the best player on his team, Lebron has 3 rings and 9 finals appearances.

This is nonsense. Kobe was All-NBA when he won 5 rings/7 Finals. It's like saying Montana or Rice shouldn't get full credit for rings due to playing with each other. Or how about Magic/KAJ.

Kobe won a finals in which he put up 15.6/4.6/4.2 on 41.1 TS%. Those are the numbers of a below average role player. So no, he doesn't deserve full credit for winning a ring with those numbers. LeBron had 17.8/7.2/6.8 on 54.1 TS% in 2011 and people consider it the "worst choke ever".

Yea lets just ignore kobe being undercut by jalen rose destroying his ankles for that series and what about leading the lakers to a huge win when shaq fouled out? People literally only look at numbers and do not watch games and this is how they get exposed.

[thebigbird]

This is nonsense. Kobe was All-NBA when he won 5 rings/7 Finals. It's like saying Montana or Rice shouldn't get full credit for rings due to playing with each other. Or how about Magic/KAJ.

Kobe won a finals in which he put up 15.6/4.6/4.2 on 41.1 TS%. Those are the numbers of a below average role player. So no, he doesn't deserve full credit for winning a ring with those numbers. LeBron had 17.8/7.2/6.8 on 54.1 TS% in 2011 and people consider it the "worst choke ever".

Yea lets just ignore kobe being undercut by jalen rose destroying his ankles for that series and what about leading the lakers to a huge win when shaq fouled out? People literally only look at numbers and do not watch games and this is how they get exposed.

The fact that he was injured doesn't change the fact that his contributions to the championship weren't very big. It just gives you an explanation for why they weren't big. His ankle didnt seem to be a problem when he went 14-27 in game 4. But then in game 5 he went 4-20 and in the decisive game 6 he went 8-27.

[clyde21]

LeBron's a doofus and annoying af tbh but Kobe isn't even in his stratosphere as a player.

how the hell did Kobe even make into this thread?

[KrAzY3]

LeBron's a doofus and annoying af tbh but Kobe isn't even in his stratosphere as a player.

how the hell did Kobe even make into this thread?

I'd tend to agree about Kobe. I think there's a legit conversation to be had in terms of his Kobe is the Laker's GOAT, especially considering he spent his entire career there, but I think he's in a second tier when it comes to all time greatest players.

[The_Hater]

Lebron is the best player on the planet and has been to the NBA finals 8 straight seasons.

The question should be, why is Lebron to blame for the Lakers failures this season when a) the team has been much better when he’s in the lineup and b) all he’s done throughout his career is win at a high level?

Just so happened to be that he got lucky the East was historically futile in those 8 years.

Dude is a phony champion. Wonder if he pulls up to Staples rockin' Timberlake's "Cry Me a River" every game.

Thank you for helping me update my ignore list.

[An Unbiased Fan]

how the hell did Kobe even make into this thread?

Because anytime people criticize Lebron, they get called "Kobe fans" and his name is brought up.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

how the hell did Kobe even make into this thread?

Because anytime people criticize Lebron, they get called "Kobe fans" and his name is brought up.

Kobe will forever live in the mind of the RealGM "intellectuals", tormenting them because their hatred for him knows no bounds.

[yesh]

LeBron's a doofus and annoying af tbh but Kobe isn't even in his stratosphere as a player.

how the hell did Kobe even make into this thread?

Could be argued, that Lebron's move to the lakers has been the best thing to ever happen to Kobe's legacy, especially if they don't make the playoffs (I believe they still will, unfortunately).

[fortinbras]

I don't think its cut and clear that LeBron is better than Kobe from a career prescriptive, at least not according to former players in the NBA. He is doing a lot of harm to his legacy in his first year in LA tbh.

It absolutely is clear cut. The only people who disagree are the "muh five ringz" folks.

PER: MJ - 1st; LeBron - 2nd; Kobe - 25th

Win shares: MJ - 4th; LeBron - 5th; Kobe - 18th

BPM: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 37th

VORP: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 17th.

Its is crazy to dismiss winning when talking about the all time greats. Yes Lebron wins in the not-that-accurate box score metric contests. But Kobe still has significantly more meaningful wins. Outside of Shaq and Kobe the Lakers championship teams were fairly weak, so the supporting cast argument doesn't help Lebron that much either.

Here is how basketball reference ranks things-
1.Kareem
2.Jordan
3.Russell
4.Kobe
5.Wilt
6.Lebron
7.Duncan

Basketball Reference - Kobe Best Season

Regular Season

Code: Select all

WS # 104  (15.29)

VORP # 90 (7.14)

Playoffs

Code: Select all

WS # 15 (4.66)

VORP # 27 (2.24)

Basketball Reference - Kobe Career

Regular Season

Code: Select all

WS # 15 (172.74)

VORP # 16 (72.04)

Playoffs

Code: Select all

WS # 8 (28.26)

VORP # 8 (13.99)

[An Unbiased Fan]

It absolutely is clear cut. The only people who disagree are the "muh five ringz" folks.

PER: MJ - 1st; LeBron - 2nd; Kobe - 25th

Win shares: MJ - 4th; LeBron - 5th; Kobe - 18th

BPM: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 37th

VORP: MJ - 2nd; LeBron - 1st; Kobe - 17th.

Its is crazy to dismiss winning when talking about the all time greats. Yes Lebron wins in the not-that-accurate box score metric contests. But Kobe still has significantly more meaningful wins. Outside of Shaq and Kobe the Lakers championship teams were fairly weak, so the supporting cast argument doesn't help Lebron that much either.

Here is how basketball reference ranks things-
1.Kareem
2.Jordan
3.Russell
4.Kobe
5.Wilt
6.Lebron
7.Duncan

Basketball Reference - Kobe Best Season

Regular Season

Code: Select all

WS # 104  (15.29)

VORP # 90 (7.14)

Playoffs

Code: Select all

WS # 15 (4.66)

VORP # 27 (2.24)

Basketball Reference - Kobe Career

Regular Season

Code: Select all

WS # 15 (172.74)

VORP # 16 (72.04)

Playoffs

Code: Select all

WS # 8 (28.26)

VORP # 8 (13.99)

2017 Westbrook is the GOAT according to VORP.

[enigmatics]

Thank you for helping me update my ignore list.

Nobody cares.

[thebigbird]

Its is crazy to dismiss winning when talking about the all time greats. Yes Lebron wins in the not-that-accurate box score metric contests. But Kobe still has significantly more meaningful wins. Outside of Shaq and Kobe the Lakers championship teams were fairly weak, so the supporting cast argument doesn't help Lebron that much either.

Here is how basketball reference ranks things-
1.Kareem
2.Jordan
3.Russell
4.Kobe
5.Wilt
6.Lebron
7.Duncan

Basketball Reference - Kobe Best Season

Regular Season

Code: Select all

WS # 104  (15.29)

VORP # 90 (7.14)

Playoffs

Code: Select all

WS # 15 (4.66)

VORP # 27 (2.24)

Basketball Reference - Kobe Career

Regular Season

Code: Select all

WS # 15 (172.74)

VORP # 16 (72.04)

Playoffs

Code: Select all

WS # 8 (28.26)

VORP # 8 (13.99)

2017 Westbrook is the GOAT according to VORP.

Kobe's best WS/48 would be LeBron's 10th best. Kobe's best VORP would be LeBron's 13th best. Kobe's best BPM would be LeBron's 16th best. Seriously, LeBron's BPM has been higher than Kobe's best BPM every single year since his rookie year. Numbers are wrong sometimes, but they're never THAT wrong.

[improper]

I mean, he did it to the Cavs the past four years but largely no one noticed because sports media hates Cleveland and only ever took LeBron's side even when he was clearly at fault, like in pushing Kyrie away and then doing absolutely nothing to repair the relationship after he requested a trade.

LeBron is the greatest player ever imo, but he's also an insufferable, self-centered prick.

You are the only person with a Cavs flag that is actually objective about LeBron instead of blinding stanning like the rest.

Respect.

I can't really speak to here since I only go to the general board sporadically, but the general consensus among the Cavs fans I've encountered on dedicated Cleveland sports forums is pretty similar to the sentiment I expressed above. We mostly think LeBron is either the best basketball player ever or very close to it, we're grateful to him for his substantial role in bringing the first title to our city in most of our lifetimes, but at the same time we recognize that he ultimately really only cares about LeBron, and coming back to Cleveland was never the love story he made it out to be, but rather a PR stunt designed to repair the damage he did to his image when he went to Miami.

Ironically, he's gone right back to damaging it this year, but I think he just doesn't care any more. To me, the move to the Lakers was, no offense, basically him just waiving the white flag and admitting he couldn't beat Golden State, so he might as well get his movie/media career jump-started.

Mind you, not every Cavs fan feels the way I do, nor would I try to imply as much. But it seems to be a pretty popular opinion of LeBron. He's great, but he's a d*ck.

[JoeBarryCaroll]

Tried to get Erik Spoelstra fired, got David Blatt fired, and now on his way in getting Luke Walton fired. LeBron is a coach killer.

He's a mutt, half coach killer half Raptor killer Sorry, couldn't let that easy one pass by... lol