Where Do We Go From Here?

[imagump1313]

After this disappointing Rodeo trip it looks about time to honestly take a hard look at this team because it isnt going anywhere this year.

I know its cliche, but we really lack an alpha who hates to lose and demands his teammates preform better. Besides Pop from the bench, the only person we have that is close to an alpha is Patty Mills, but its hard to be an alpha when you suck at basketball.

Where do you guys think we should go from here?

I'm pretty sure the team wants to keep it together next year with Aldridge and DeRozan and see if things come together with a healthy Murray. But if we fall out of the playoffs do we look around for a deal this summer to move one or both of them? Aldridge has already expressed interest in being traded once before and DeRozan was forced to come here so I really don't think he is that attached. Neither one of them seem capable to leading this team anywhere meaningful so do we waste anymore time? Or try to get some assets and get back on the road upward?

Sure there is time to win some home games and hold a playoff spot this year but honestly, If we cannot get a 7th seed or higher and avoid GSW and OKC we are getting swept in the first round. Denver or Portland maybe but with this team as constructed, I don't have much hope at this point.

I'm not saying tank, I'm just looking at reality. This team blows. We aren't athletic, we cannot defend and unless we hit 90% of our threes, we cant score enough to beat most teams.

[G R E Y]

This is similar to the off-season thread, but that one had a list of specific questions OP wanted answered. Realistically the RRT was going to be 2-6, and we went 1-7 with Derrick missing half of the games:

Read on Twitter

LMA was sick for the Toronto one (6 points), and we were without two starters for the Utah game. This is the SAME team that has 3 winning months and November and February as the losing ones. The RRT was always going to be something to weather, and given our constantly having to adjust to line-up changes with injuries, and half the team being new this season, it was going to be a work in progress, with an emphasis on progress.

This is the same team that was 10 games over .500 before the RRT and beating good teams. We were no less athletic then than now, and though we've struggled since, the bigger picture has always remained the goal while remaining competitive. We have Dejounte, Derrick, Lonnie. We have Milutinov and Jakob. These are the future we're getting a glimpse of now with several. We have LMA, Patty (who doesn't suck as he is part of our most successful line-ups - I will find the stat for this, and he shoots 40% from 3 and averages 10 points / 3 assists a game as a back-up PG), Beli and Rudy for now to continue passing on the system to the younger generation. DeMar is here for now, and he's contributing on and of the court.

I think people are frustrated with recent spate of bad games, but forget that it's a rebuilding year, and that we've done really well when healthy, so it makes no sense to break apart a specific direction when we have a balance of vets and young guys learning from them. We're more athletic than last year. We're far more balanced in scoring. We've also had about 140 games+ lost due to injuries. Given that, I'm actually astonished we've remained as competitive. There have been a lot of ups and downs, and but we've bounced back each time. None of that has been a waste of time, and we're pushing through this season, with inconsistencies due to all the challenges that have come our way. Where we're going, seeing as how it's a bridging / rebuilding year, is teaching guys how to play while we try and win games. I know it's not sexy and may not result in a deep playoff run, but that's not nowhere, and it's not running in circles. It's going forward while making changes.

We were put in a difficult position with trades and choosing whether to match salaries. We got a solid return on and off the court, gave up on Kyle to sign Davis, and I think now it's a good deal (though I wasn't sure of it at the time. Davis's numbers have all improved while Kyle's are the same). LMA asked to be traded before because of how he was being used on the court, and once he and Pop aired things out, he's been rock solid for us on both ends, plus he Rudy and DeMar have developed great chemistry. He and Derrick anchor us. Not sure why we would choose to not have him around given his central role for us. He's a foundation from which we go forward. Not leading anywhere is really not accurate given guys are developing and he's producing while others around him learn.

The home stretch, and with us healthy, will reset our balance and show more of what we're capable of when we get more consistent roles in more consistent minutes from the full team. We've bounced back all season. But as we (the Spurs) progress this season, we (fans) also have to adjust to a largely new team that is doing its best after being thrust into a new direction inconceivable not too long ago. Let's give credit where it is due: a lot of difficult decision were made, a lot of new players were brought in, this with the limitations put before us, and we're making it work. This season, we've beaten OKC, GSW, Raptors, Celtics, 76ers among others. We're at or near the top in 3% and have one of the lowest TO rates. There are actual signs of progress, even if in a transition year that means sometimes taking steps back and relearning to go forward again.

I'm not about staying in one place and remaining complacent, but acknowledge that we are getting a lot done this season even if the wins are not as easy or prevalent as in times past. I'd be very surprised if we moved on from LMA or DeMar before their contracts were up. Pau we will move on from, clearly, and that'll leave more money for hopefully Rudy and/or a solid 3. It's no accident we have signed just about everyone to one or two year deals. There is a plan in place, one we've stuck to despite the challenges. Given the signs - contract length, half a new team, vets on good deals, many younger players - PATFO is staying with the plan which looks to have this season and the future in mind. Progress isn't always measured in ways that are immediately discernible, particularly like we've been used to, but that doesn't mean it's not happening or won't pay dividends.

[imagump1313]

I wasn't demanding trade or tanking or staying pat with the original post. Just wondering what people were thinking at this point since there hasn't been much discussion at all about it here.

I know its basketball and some nights there is nothing you can do but getting rolled by the Knicks who are obviously trying to lose games is not a good morale booster. As much as I was concerned about that loss I was more bothered by the players lack of urgency and body language. The "aww shucks" and roll over and take it attitude this team has annoys me.

Losing White hurts but PG's aren't the same in this league anymore. A PG doesn't handle the ball and direct traffic and penetrate and get offenses moving anymore. Every offense in this league is based on ball movement. One player doesn't distribute the ball anymore and dictate flow(except for Harden). Yes we miss a little of the playmaking so I understand losing games to good teams but not teams trying to lose. And not only losing but getting smoked.

The defense is a concern. We can't stop anybody from scoring

[G R E Y]

Sure thing, that was clear from your original post. I was just trying to provide a broader context in which these losses can be viewed, not to excuse them, but to point out positives, growth, challenges and the pattern of rising to them time and again, and an overall forward direction. These have value for now and for the future. We've been dealing with a lot, much of it imposed so we've had to respond many times on the fly, learning and doing as we go, and we've been getting through it.

I don't think the Knicks were trying to lose that night, and they'd been building towards breaking their losing streak for a while, losing to the 76ers by single digits I think just prior to our game. It was a confluence of things as I mentioned in that game thread, but bottom line is when Derrick or Rudy or LMA is out, we struggle, not only because of their defensive presence and offensive creativity, but because they anchor us, provide a steadying presence. We have been going through a carousel of line-ups since the beginning of the season, and when half the team is new, these types of ongoing changes have an unsettling effect. Sure at some point you could argue that we'd get used to it, but overall, when we have our core nine guys in the line-up, we're 6-1. That's eye-opening good. We just haven't had that stability, and subsequent consistency.

That said, we laid an egg in NY. I don't think we were lackadaisical so much as were affected by both emotions and let down of the previous game in which we almost had a victory only to lose it in the final minute, and by a key guy being out. Sometimes caring a great deal can constrain, and it seemed to me that that is what happened in this game. We looked increasingly tense, easily frustrated and repeated mistakes on the D end. Versus the Nets, we showed a far better D just the next night, and couldn't get the result due to both ridiculous shooting by them and abysmal shooting by us. Ideally you want both ends to be working, but if the shot is not falling as in the last RRT game, it was good to see that the D was better (all Qs were under 30 points allowed which hasn't happened in too long; good for us to see we can do it).

In a short time, Derrick has established himself as the second most important player in our line-up per Pop. Beyond the traditional role of a PG changing, he is our defensive anchor on the perimeter as LMA is down low. He affects drives, passes, shots, you name it, just disturbing what opponents want to run. And - this became far more apparent when I saw him play live - on O he is always probing, eyes quickly scanning all the options, making eye contact with team mates for the next play, and has a lot of little movements when he has the ball that you can't really see on tv, so that at any moment he has any number of options available to him. He makes quick decisions, has a good drive, floater, J, and 3 shot, and makes good passes, especially to LMA with whom he has a growing synergy. We just score far easier with him on the floor; he is a very solid floor general whose steadying presence in the line-up was apparent way back in the SL.

Lonnie was to get more NBA time but for his injury which set him back (again per Pop). Of course, we know Dejounte is a great athlete, and what happened there. We were to have been far more of a run and gun team, and the second unit has more of that movement, so the whole more athletic, more defense-oriented, more dynamic offense was always part of the plan. It still is, and when we're cohesive, this very same group of guys has shown it can rise from the bottom defensively, to mid-tier, which for us is decent-to-good. It's not as if the answers are external or beyond us. We know we can play better because we have already shown it. As we've displayed throughout the season, we can bounce back.

[imagump1313]

Oh I'm sure the Knicks players and coaches were trying to win. That doesn't excuse us from not taking that game more seriously though IMO. The thing that bothers me is the seemingly lack of urgency we seem to be having lately.
If we miss the playoffs by a game or a 6th, 7th seed you can look back at that game and say we got what we deserved.
I would rather us sat everyone like we have in the past rather than watch us sleepwalk through a game against a terrible team like that.

I am in almost total agreement with you. I am encouraged by some of the growth of this team.
White has been great. Unfortunately with that injury, he isn't going to be 100% the rest of the year.
Bertans is becoming a really reliable player. He still passes up way too many shots for my liking but he is improving and I like that he is becoming more and more aggressive defensively.
Forbes has seemed to fool me yet again. He seems to have fallen back into his old habits of having one good game followed by 10 games he cant make a basket to save his life. Then completely disappears in every other part of the game when this happens. I hope he gets a handle on this.

[G R E Y]

Hmm well it seemed to me that we were playing tight in the Knicks game, like we were so intent on not making mistakes because we made so many before that it made us all the more prone and we got down on ourselves like oh no here we go again. Just a lot of built up frustration by that point. Knicks followed up with a win versus Orlando who were 8-2 going into that game including a win in Toronto. Just a weird confluence. I didn't like the way we played either, but how we bounce back is what's telling, and though our shot was nowhere to be found versus Brooklyn, our D was noticeably better. Of course, it was better still versus Detroit, and our shots were falling, too. Just a better balance of urgency and flow of playing through mistakes and pushing ahead.

I was going to write earlier about how Bryn, as grateful as I am to him for his stellar year, because his shot had fallen off noticeably and he was making defensive mistakes to boot (I thought it was fatigue, but they just had the AS break), would be easier to replace in the starting line-up if need be, and sure enough he hit some good shots and then had to be carried off. Still, this season we have many more players to compensate for his shot not falling. Plus, Pop wants him to keep shooting, and this season he's got more than a jumper as his floater and drive are also good threats.

Also impressed with Davis, and I'm happy to see him getting more minutes, though as a starter (especially of late) he is not scoring enough to justify being there in for Rudy. Perhaps it's to better balance the line-ups when a guy is out or to give Rudy a bit more rest (especially on back-to-backs). In those two most recent starts in the back-to-back he had zero points in each of the first Qs, and combined for 6 points in the two games. Small sample size and all that, but the point is that despite Davis becoming a more complete player (showed some passing, good defending, rebounding, pushing the ball up after a steal and taking a 3, whereas in previous seasons he was far more reliant on shots from passes), Rudy is the far more dangerous threat offensively, having the ability to create his own shot from just about anywhere, and has become a better defender since signing with us, too. Overall I agree about Davis, just think his increased minutes are better suited from the bench whenever possible.

As to Alpha, a team takes on the characteristics of its best player and / or strongest personality, so in this case, Pop, but LMA has been shouldering a big load even though he's not the Rah! Rah! hype type, and with other corporate knowledge guys leaving, it's been a bit more by committee. I think Derrick is a quiet guy who also does it with his game, and guys feed off of his and LMA's steady presence and great plays on both ends. Watch out for Dejounte to pick up that mantle. This young man is really going to be special for us. He's got that something you can't teach or put your finger on that goes beyond the game. He'll be the clearest extension of Pop on the floor.

It'll be interesting to see where we use the extra money we'll have with Pau surely not being on the team next season (I bet he goes to a team out west; seems to gush about LA often enough on twitter) and some other contracts coming off the books.