Dunce Cap of Defeat #2 Knicks 108 Magic 103

[fendilim]

I'd say Fournier, but Tross was really bad tonight. We can't have him playing like this. He was the missing 6th man tonight. And not to mention, most of our bench scoring comes from him. Guy can play better.

[Audi]

TRoss has done well enough for us that a bad game like this shouldn’t get him the cap. It looks worse because nobody on then bench can score outside of him so an off night is devastating. Evan, on the other hand, is a starter with other capable players on the court and still manages to take shots he has no business taking and make stupid mistakes.

[craig01]

There is plenty of blame to go around.

A porous defense and bad shot selection down the stretch is what I saw.

It's a bad loss, the Knicks could have been put away much earlier, but the Magic did not work hard enough on either end to do so.

[pepe1991]

TRoss has done well enough for us that a bad game like this shouldn’t get him the cap. It looks worse because nobody on then bench can score outside of him so an off night is devastating. Evan, on the other hand, is a starter with other capable players on the court and still manages to take shots he has no business taking and make stupid mistakes.

I voted for Grant but even if Ross gets most votes it doesn't take away from things he did for a team in previous games, it just means he had one bad game. it happends.

[Bergmaniac]

I don't get the Fournier votes, yeah, he went cold down the stretch, but so did everyone else. He moved the ball well most of the night - game high 8 assists. He forced a few shots, but nothing outrageous. Ross shot worse and as usual never passed the ball once he got it. Grant was his typical disastrous self - 1 point, 1 rebound and 0 assists in 18 minutes. The game would have been a blowout if the bench wasn't a disaster which gave the Knicks the confidence and the opportunity to try a comeback.

[basketballRob]

Fournier's defense was really not good.

[BadMofoPimp]

Can we just vote: Bench!

[OrlandoNed]

I don't get the Fournier votes, yeah, he went cold down the stretch, but so did everyone else. He moved the ball well most of the night - game high 8 assists. He forced a few shots, but nothing outrageous. Ross shot worse and as usual never passed the ball once he got it. Grant was his typical disastrous self - 1 point, 1 rebound and 0 assists in 18 minutes. The game would have been a blowout if the bench wasn't a disaster which gave the Knicks the confidence and the opportunity to try a comeback.

You must not of watched the game if you don't understand the votes for Fournier.

In the last 6 minutes of the 4th, he went full hero ball mode which he is not capable of. He failed to make passes to teammates with a better shot, made horrific shot attempts and got himself into bad positions that lead to him turning the ball over to get out of them.

Ross played the way he usually does, he just missed his shots. Evan flat-out played really stupid basketball in crunch time.

[Bergmaniac]

I don't get the Fournier votes, yeah, he went cold down the stretch, but so did everyone else. He moved the ball well most of the night - game high 8 assists. He forced a few shots, but nothing outrageous. Ross shot worse and as usual never passed the ball once he got it. Grant was his typical disastrous self - 1 point, 1 rebound and 0 assists in 18 minutes. The game would have been a blowout if the bench wasn't a disaster which gave the Knicks the confidence and the opportunity to try a comeback.

You must not of watched the game if you don't understand the votes for Fournier.

In the last 6 minutes of the 4th, he went full hero ball mode which he is not capable of. He failed to make passes to teammates with a better shot, made horrific shot attempts and got himself into bad positions that lead to him turning the ball over to get out of them.

Ross played the way he usually does, he just missed his shots. Evan flat-out played really stupid basketball in crunch time.

I watched it less than 30 minutes ago, I even rewatched most late offensive possession quickly just now to see whether I've missed something. To say that Fournier went "full hero mode in the last 6 minutes" is completely wrong. He took a grand total of 3 shots during that period out of 15 total for the Magic - https://stats.nba.com/game/0021800908/?StartRange=25193&EndRange=28800&RangeType=2.

And it's not like he shot only 3 times because he didn't get the ball on the other possessions, he touched it on quite a few more possessions and usually passed it to a teammate in a good position. He created a wide open shot 3 for Vuc which Vuc airballed with about 4:20 left. he got it to an open DJ at the 3 with 5:00 left which allowed DJ to blow by the closing out defender and score a layup. With 40 seconds left he got the ball to Vucevic for a post-up opportunity against Mudiay of all players which Vucevic screwed up by losing the ball. He was the only player on the Magic to record an assist in that period.

[basketballRob]

Trier looked like an all star.

[Xatticus]

I voted for Fournier. He actively sabotaged our offense over the 2-minute stretch where we went from a four point lead to a four point deficit by taking a series of ill-advised shots.

Ross took the same shots that he ordinarily takes. Our offense doesn't really create good shots for him, but we have become so accustomed to him taking and making high-difficulty shots that it has become expected.

It wasn't a good game for our bench, but the point disparity that people keep citing is highly misleading. Our bench played a grand total of 75 minutes combined. There wasn't any point in the game where we didn't have at least one starter on the floor. New York's bench played 149 minutes. To put that into perspective, New York's starters played only 91 minutes.

Clifford rode a lineup for too long in the fourth quarter that was way too ineffective. Our lead evaporated. He reloaded with the starters and they proceeded to piss the game away.

[OrlDave]

Can we just say "bench" or "guards" because both sets were bad. Minus DJ in the later category.

[Optimus_Steel]

I voted for Fournier. He actively sabotaged our offense over the 2-minute stretch where we went from a four point lead to a four point deficit by taking a series of ill-advised shots.

Ross took the same shots that he ordinarily takes. Our offense doesn't really create good shots for him, but we have become so accustomed to him taking and making high-difficulty shots that it has become expected.

It wasn't a good game for our bench, but the point disparity that people keep citing is highly misleading. Our bench played a grand total of 75 minutes combined. There wasn't any point in the game where we didn't have at least one starter on the floor. New York's bench played 149 minutes. To put that into perspective, New York's starters played only 91 minutes.

Clifford rode a lineup for too long in the fourth quarter that was way too ineffective. Our lead evaporated. He reloaded with the starters and they proceeded to piss the game away.

Had the bench played just slightly better they would have won comfortably and there would have been no meltdown.

[drsd]

Grant was his typical disastrous self - 1 point, 1 rebound and 0 assists in 18 minutes.

When does Briscoe return ?!?!?!?

You must not of watched the game if you don't understand the votes for Fournier.

Respectfully it is my opinion that Grant was dramatically worse than Fournier. When he was on the court, it was effectively 4 on 5 basketball. He sucked on both ends.

Had the bench played just slightly better they would have won comfortably and there would have been no meltdown.

As I said above, Ross goes 3-10, and the Magic win this game. Orlando getting even 15 bench points, this is a blow-out win.

Putting this loss on Fournier discounts his play in the first three quarters.

The bench in contrast was bad all game long: all four quarters.


..

[Popsicle1228]

With all due respect Def, with this team being sub .500 I do not think we are ready for the dunce cap threads to make a comeback. We already have a lot of negativity because being a Magic fan can be frustrating and I think the dunce cap thread can add to that. This is an opinion of a long time lurking (lurking since 2009) newb so take it for what it is worth.

[Def Swami]

The board has changed significantly since 2012. There were more level headed posters back then. Times change, people change, the board should change too.

Just call it a venting thread so people can vent without feeling obliged to single out a player and lay a loss on them. There’s already every other thread if we want to read posters ripping on individual players.

Why not try to foster some more positivity instead of doubling down on the **** that already makes this board too painful to read at times.

We took an informal poll of the board in the last Dunce Cap Thread about bringing these back; the majority were in favor of bringing them back. We'll see how it goes. These are paid professionals. There's a fair way to critique performances of players without it being uncivil. These threads were always meant to be lighthearted and not personal, just like every thing discussed on here.

You proposed the question in the thread, straight after a disappointing loss when everyone was already fired up and looking to whine - is it a surprise it picked up likes? Just look at the names of the people who liked your comment and you’ll notice it features a lot of the negative voices from the board.

There’s a reason a lot of the good voices have disappeared from this board, but hey, if you want to offer up a platform to an already toxic and negative subsection go right ahead. It’s a really bad idea in my opinion. Why encourage further division amongst tribes of player fans/haters?

I get the need for venting, but there’s plenty of venting already happens in game threads. Not sure why anyone would think this board needs more stupid **** spat out in hot takes.

What adds to the toxic environment is posters who attack each other personally for their viewpoints. The fanbase is a cornucopia of opinions from good to bad and positive to negative, and there should be a healthy respect for both.

If your team is going to play meaningful games and single out players who excel in a Sweater Vest Thread, then you can't be afraid to confront what's going wrong in the Dunce Cap Thread.

I call it like Steve Clifford did back in November.

“The expectations are so much different than when I was here before,” Clifford said. “You know, those guys didn’t play well back then, they heard about it. And that’s how it’s supposed to be. And these guys need to hear about it too because they’re good enough to play better too. And I need to hear about it, too. That’s all fine. That’s part of this. But to say, let’s find out what’s good, let’s not. Let’s just tell the story, OK. The bench was embarrassing. It was embarrassing. That’s it.”

[BadHombre]

We took an informal poll of the board in the last Dunce Cap Thread about bringing these back; the majority were in favor of bringing them back. We'll see how it goes. These are paid professionals. There's a fair way to critique performances of players without it being uncivil. These threads were always meant to be lighthearted and not personal, just like every thing discussed on here.

You proposed the question in the thread, straight after a disappointing loss when everyone was already fired up and looking to whine - is it a surprise it picked up likes? Just look at the names of the people who liked your comment and you’ll notice it features a lot of the negative voices from the board.

There’s a reason a lot of the good voices have disappeared from this board, but hey, if you want to offer up a platform to an already toxic and negative subsection go right ahead. It’s a really bad idea in my opinion. Why encourage further division amongst tribes of player fans/haters?

I get the need for venting, but there’s plenty of venting already happens in game threads. Not sure why anyone would think this board needs more stupid **** spat out in hot takes.

What adds to the toxic environment is posters who attack each other personally for their viewpoints. The fanbase is a cornucopia of opinions from good to bad and positive to negative, and there should be a healthy respect for both.

If your team is going to play meaningful games and single out players who excel in a Sweater Vest Thread, then you can't be afraid to confront what's going wrong in the Dunce Cap Thread.

I call it like Steve Clifford did back in November.

“The expectations are so much different than when I was here before,” Clifford said. “You know, those guys didn’t play well back then, they heard about it. And that’s how it’s supposed to be. And these guys need to hear about it too because they’re good enough to play better too. And I need to hear about it, too. That’s all fine. That’s part of this. But to say, let’s find out what’s good, let’s not. Let’s just tell the story, OK. The bench was embarrassing. It was embarrassing. That’s it.”

Dumb and toxic opinions are the source of most toxicity. When was the last time you saw two posters get hostile when strictly talking about the good? This board has allowed too many of the negative voices to permeate for too long. They’ve had a healthy respect, and it’s driven away other quality contributors.

Why should anyone want to respect any opinion in any area of life if all they do is focus on the negative? Look around the world these days where you’ve got a resurgence in white supremacists, charged race relations in most countries, you’ve got people who still deny climate change, people who believe vaccinations should be banned, people who think women shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions. Take all that negative, ill informed bull in and tell me how far the ‘respect’ for opinions that ultimately aim to threaten/attack/damage all sorts of people has served the world?

I’m sorry, but I don’t think a thread where people line up to say “I think [insert player] sucked the most tonight” is constructive in any manner or form. You think the players will read it and take notes? You think the posters will read it and take any kind of enlightenment away from the topic?

Tradition is the most ridiculous reason to keep anything going, especially when they’re just bad ideas from the start. “What? You want me to give up my slaves? But it’s tradition!”.

At least be up front and call the thread what it is, a vent thread/whinge thread. Stop trying to dance around a justification as to why to keep it, because there is no justification. It’s pointless, and doesn’t serve the community constructively. I get that you want to keep it because you obviously felt the need for a hot take thread to blame people, but look at it from a more holistic perspective.

Otherwise, there’s a whole host of other bull idea threads I might just kick off.

[Def Swami]

You proposed the question in the thread, straight after a disappointing loss when everyone was already fired up and looking to whine - is it a surprise it picked up likes? Just look at the names of the people who liked your comment and you’ll notice it features a lot of the negative voices from the board.

There’s a reason a lot of the good voices have disappeared from this board, but hey, if you want to offer up a platform to an already toxic and negative subsection go right ahead. It’s a really bad idea in my opinion. Why encourage further division amongst tribes of player fans/haters?

I get the need for venting, but there’s plenty of venting already happens in game threads. Not sure why anyone would think this board needs more stupid **** spat out in hot takes.

What adds to the toxic environment is posters who attack each other personally for their viewpoints. The fanbase is a cornucopia of opinions from good to bad and positive to negative, and there should be a healthy respect for both.

If your team is going to play meaningful games and single out players who excel in a Sweater Vest Thread, then you can't be afraid to confront what's going wrong in the Dunce Cap Thread.

I call it like Steve Clifford did back in November.

“The expectations are so much different than when I was here before,” Clifford said. “You know, those guys didn’t play well back then, they heard about it. And that’s how it’s supposed to be. And these guys need to hear about it too because they’re good enough to play better too. And I need to hear about it, too. That’s all fine. That’s part of this. But to say, let’s find out what’s good, let’s not. Let’s just tell the story, OK. The bench was embarrassing. It was embarrassing. That’s it.”

Dumb and toxic opinions are the source of most toxicity. When was the last time you saw two posters get hostile when strictly talking about the good? This board has allowed too many of the negative voices to permeate for too long. They’ve had a healthy respect, and it’s driven away other quality contributors.

Why should anyone want to respect any opinion in any area of life if all they do is focus on the negative? Look around the world these days where you’ve got a resurgence in white supremacists, charged race relations in most countries, you’ve got people who still deny climate change, people who believe vaccinations should be banned, people who think women shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions. Take all that negative, ill informed bull in and tell me how far the ‘respect’ for opinions that ultimately aim to threaten/attack/damage all sorts of people has served the world?

I’m sorry, but I don’t think a thread where people line up to say “I think [insert player] sucked the most tonight” is constructive in any manner or form. You think the players will read it and take notes? You think the posters will read it and take any kind of enlightenment away from the topic?

Tradition is the most ridiculous reason to keep anything going, especially when they’re just bad ideas from the start. “What? You want me to give up my slaves? But it’s tradition!”.

At least be up front and call the thread what it is, a vent thread/whinge thread. Stop trying to dance around a justification as to why to keep it, because there is no justification. It’s pointless, and doesn’t serve the community constructively. I get that you want to keep it because you obviously felt the need for a hot take thread to blame people, but look at it from a more holistic perspective.

Otherwise, there’s a whole host of other bull idea threads I might just kick off.

Did you equivocate slavery to a dunce cap thread? It's not that serious. There's a difference between propagating ignorance and intolerance, and fostering an honest conversation built around objective facts and data. If the team or player is objectively bad, I think it's okay to talk about it on a basketball forum instead of ignoring it.

It is a vent thread, just as much as the Sweater Vest thread is a praise thread. There's room for both.

If you feel that strongly about it, you simply can just ignore it.

[BadHombre]

What adds to the toxic environment is posters who attack each other personally for their viewpoints. The fanbase is a cornucopia of opinions from good to bad and positive to negative, and there should be a healthy respect for both.

If your team is going to play meaningful games and single out players who excel in a Sweater Vest Thread, then you can't be afraid to confront what's going wrong in the Dunce Cap Thread.

I call it like Steve Clifford did back in November.

Dumb and toxic opinions are the source of most toxicity. When was the last time you saw two posters get hostile when strictly talking about the good? This board has allowed too many of the negative voices to permeate for too long. They’ve had a healthy respect, and it’s driven away other quality contributors.

Why should anyone want to respect any opinion in any area of life if all they do is focus on the negative? Look around the world these days where you’ve got a resurgence in white supremacists, charged race relations in most countries, you’ve got people who still deny climate change, people who believe vaccinations should be banned, people who think women shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions. Take all that negative, ill informed bull in and tell me how far the ‘respect’ for opinions that ultimately aim to threaten/attack/damage all sorts of people has served the world?

I’m sorry, but I don’t think a thread where people line up to say “I think [insert player] sucked the most tonight” is constructive in any manner or form. You think the players will read it and take notes? You think the posters will read it and take any kind of enlightenment away from the topic?

Tradition is the most ridiculous reason to keep anything going, especially when they’re just bad ideas from the start. “What? You want me to give up my slaves? But it’s tradition!”.

At least be up front and call the thread what it is, a vent thread/whinge thread. Stop trying to dance around a justification as to why to keep it, because there is no justification. It’s pointless, and doesn’t serve the community constructively. I get that you want to keep it because you obviously felt the need for a hot take thread to blame people, but look at it from a more holistic perspective.

Otherwise, there’s a whole host of other bull idea threads I might just kick off.

Did you equivocate slavery to a dunce cap thread? It's not that serious. There's a difference between propagating ignorance and intolerance, and fostering an honest conversation built around objective facts and data. If the team or player is objectively bad, I think it's okay to talk about it on a basketball forum instead of ignoring it.

It is a vent thread, just as much as the Sweater Vest thread is a praise thread. There's room for both.

If you feel that strongly about it, you simply can just ignore it.

I don’t see how discussing who was the worst player in a given night serves anyone any benefit. It should be pretty obvious who had a bad night. On top of that, the options aren’t ever fair because the OP leads the question simply by who they list as the #1 option in the poll, and they don’t always represent the truth of it. Even in this thread, it seems the bench as a collective would’ve been a better option, but it’s not there, since you insist on wanting to single a player out to shame them. A player, like Ross, who’s done plenty of good this season, but now on a bad night it becomes a matter of importance that the board highlight that.

Any dunce caps belong to people who insist on pushing that agenda and I will continue to point that out in these threads.

Seriously, we’re sub .500 and finally in a position to chase the playoffs in a pretty desperate fashion, but somehow there’s a need to focus on the failures. It’s entitled and pathetic behaviour.