What exactly makes Tatum more talked about/ranked higher than Pascal Siakim?

[reload141]

Is it really? Tatum is incrementally improved from last season; who knows how much better he gets. It's not like he's some freak athlete looking to improve on some skills; he's already a very polished player. My opinion is that Siakim is significantly better today and im not comfortable betting on Tatum to close that gap over the next 5 years, which is really that matters to me.

Yes. 4 years ago Pascal was playing in college. The last 2 seasons he was a role player. Now he’s an all star level player.

Not betting on Tatums development, but I wouldn’t have bet Pascal would be at this level even based off last season

No one saw this coming from Pascal. Solid starter sure, but he is fast becoming a top 5 two way big man. Something that the age gap has nothing to do with is the energy with which Pascal plays with, Tatum does not and will never play with that kind of energy. Pascal raises the intensity of his teammates when he's on the floor and it's an intangible that he was born with, not something that can be learned.

That's a pretty silly statement to make. That's like me saying Siakam will never be a top 30 player in the league.

Can't predict the future like that.

[dorkestra]

Between last year and this year, not many players improved as much as Siakam. He is an elite prospect whose value will start to become more obvious.

[Patsfan1081]

Pascal is better on both ends of the floor, he's also 4 years older and was nowhere near as polished as Tatum is at the same age.

How is he better on both ends? Tatum has had better defensive numbers since coming into the league, he was top ten in dws and b+- as a rookie, and they're different players offensively. Tatum is much more of a shooter, Siakam a finisher, and their rebound/assist numbers have been about the same.

[Q C]

Tatum performed on the biggest stage, Siakam hasn't (yet)

obviously

[MindState]

Tatum carried the Celtics to a game 7 against LeBron.

Siakam got swept.

Maybe thats why?

[druggas]

I think it's pretty simple. Tatum is 4 years younger and last year Tatum as a rookie helped lead his team to game 7 of the ECF against LeBron, showed out in game 7 and ended up just 1 point behind Kareem for most points by a rookie in the playoffs.

So I think everyone saw that potential and think, what can this player look like in 4 years.

Kareem played in 10 playoff games his rookie year. How many did Tatum play?

[gmoney411]

Siakam started playing basketball at 17.

Tatum's been playing since he was a little kid.

This is not true and stated in another post. Siakam was discovered by A Moute at 16 and had been playing basketball befor that, just not at a level similar to AAU. He's had plenty of developement all time, including multiple years in college and time in the g league.

Actually thats not true.
He played soccer not basketball.
He went to a basketball camp, hosted by Moute, for fun in 2016 with his friends and stood out because of his length and athleticism.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/basketball/pascal-siakams-path-to-the-nba-began-with-his-father/article32831227/

Pascal studied at a Catholic seminary from the age of 11 to 18. It wasn't until he was about 15 that he began to play a little basketball

Basketball before the age of 15 matters so little. He's been focusing heavily on basketball for the past 8 years. I'd easily take the 8 years from 16-24 of Pascal's development over the past 8 years of 12-20 for Tatum.

[Patsfan1081]

Between last year and this year, not many players improved as much as Siakam. He is an elite prospect whose value will start to become more obvious.

Hield, Dipo, Sabonis, etc... No one saw it coming but 25 is usually the age players take this jump. And I still don't understand how you call a 25 year old a prospect, is AD one too?

[LoveMyRaps]

I think it's pretty simple. Tatum is 4 years younger and last year Tatum as a rookie helped lead his team to game 7 of the ECF against LeBron, showed out in game 7 and ended up just 1 point behind Kareem for most points by a rookie in the playoffs.

So I think everyone saw that potential and think, what can this player look like in 4 years.

Kareem played in 10 playoff games his rookie year. How many did Tatum play?

lmaoo i was just bout to say that too. that was a pretty silly statement to make.
tatum played nearly twice as many playoff games in his rookie year than kareem. (19:10)

[ellobo]

Developmental and narrative arc.

Tatum was a hyped one and done player at Duke who Boston targeted as their top choice in the draft (they had the first pick and only traded back because the player they wanted first overall would still be there). He was a rookie of the year contender and played great in the playoffs with Boston's star player out.

Siakam was a relative unknown in college playing for New Mexico State, and then spent two years as a sub 20 minute/sub 10ppg energy guy.

So that's the context in which most people perceive them, even though Siakam has developed to a totally different level, and Tatum has not yet made his next leap.

[Duke4life831]

I think it's pretty simple. Tatum is 4 years younger and last year Tatum as a rookie helped lead his team to game 7 of the ECF against LeBron, showed out in game 7 and ended up just 1 point behind Kareem for most points by a rookie in the playoffs.

So I think everyone saw that potential and think, what can this player look like in 4 years.

Kareem played in 10 playoff games his rookie year. How many did Tatum play?

lmaoo i was just bout to say that too. that was a pretty silly statement to make.
tatum played nearly twice as many playoff games in his rookie year than kareem. (19:10)

And? I don't get what is silly about that statement.

Tatum led his team to game 7 of the ECF, and ended up scoring the 2nd most points in a playoffs for any rookie of all time.

I must be missing something here.

[mademan]

Kareem played in 10 playoff games his rookie year. How many did Tatum play?

lmaoo i was just bout to say that too. that was a pretty silly statement to make.
tatum played nearly twice as many playoff games in his rookie year than kareem. (19:10)

And? I don't get what is silly about that statement.

Tatum led his team to game 7 of the ECF, and ended up scoring the 2nd most points in a playoffs for any rookie of all time.

I must be missing something here.

He didnt though. Horford did. It's enough to say he impressed in the playoffs; no need to go to hyperbole and say he led them. Horford was clearly the best player for the C's in the playoffs. Tatum had some great moments, and at times was the best player on the C's (Brown was the best at times too), but Horford was very easily the most consistent guy in the playoffs for them.

[Reeko]

Yes. 4 years ago Pascal was playing in college. The last 2 seasons he was a role player. Now he’s an all star level player.

Not betting on Tatums development, but I wouldn’t have bet Pascal would be at this level even based off last season

No one saw this coming from Pascal. Solid starter sure, but he is fast becoming a top 5 two way big man. Something that the age gap has nothing to do with is the energy with which Pascal plays with, Tatum does not and will never play with that kind of energy. Pascal raises the intensity of his teammates when he's on the floor and it's an intangible that he was born with, not something that can be learned.

That's a pretty silly statement to make. That's like me saying Siakam will never be a top 30 player in the league.

Can't predict the future like that.

Not at all. Pascal has the potential to be a top 30 player if he keeps working on his game he'll get there. It's not a knock on Tatum, some guys just have higher motors than others and it's not really something that can be developed you either have it or you don't. Not saying Tatum has a low motor, just saying Pascal has a very high motor and it's something he came into the NBA with.

[Patsfan1081]

Siakam started playing basketball at 17.

Tatum's been playing since he was a little kid.

This is not true and stated in another post. Siakam was discovered by A Moute at 16 and had been playing basketball befor that, just not at a level similar to AAU. He's had plenty of developement all time, including multiple years in college and time in the g league.

Actually thats not true.
He played soccer not basketball.
He went to a basketball camp, hosted by Moute, for fun in 2016 with his friends and stood out because of his length and athleticism.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/basketball/pascal-siakams-path-to-the-nba-began-with-his-father/article32831227/

Pascal studied at a Catholic seminary from the age of 11 to 18. It wasn't until he was about 15 that he began to play a little basketball

2016 was three years ago, Siakam had been drafted. What are you talking about? He went to camp at 16, it even says in your link. And how is he different than a lot of kids in the states who start aau at 16? He's had plenty of developement, that arguement makes no sense.

[dorkestra]

Between last year and this year, not many players improved as much as Siakam. He is an elite prospect whose value will start to become more obvious.

Hield, Dipo, Sabonis, etc... No one saw it coming but 25 is usually the age players take this jump. And I still don't understand how you call a 25 year old a prospect, is AD one too?

The actual age doesn't matter as much as their previous exposure to the game, polish of their own game, and likelihood to keep improving. Age on its own doesn't mean too much.

[nikster]

Pascal is better on both ends of the floor, he's also 4 years older and was nowhere near as polished as Tatum is at the same age.

How is he better on both ends? Tatum has had better defensive numbers since coming into the league, he was top ten in dws and b+- as a rookie, and they're different players offensively. Tatum is much more of a shooter, Siakam a finisher, and their rebound/assist numbers have been about the same.

Offenisvely Pascal is scoring similar amount on way better efficiency while playmaking more with a better assist/TO ratio. Obviously different roles are hard to compare but Siakam has been more impactful offensively, for a much better offensive team. advanced defensive stats are notoriously bad at capturing actual defense, I'd take Siakam anyday on that end as well but since its the "eye test" no point in debating.

[Duke4life831]

lmaoo i was just bout to say that too. that was a pretty silly statement to make.
tatum played nearly twice as many playoff games in his rookie year than kareem. (19:10)

And? I don't get what is silly about that statement.

Tatum led his team to game 7 of the ECF, and ended up scoring the 2nd most points in a playoffs for any rookie of all time.

I must be missing something here.

He didnt though. Horford did. It's enough to say he impressed in the playoffs; no need to go to hyperbole and say he led them. Horford was clearly the best player for the C's in the playoffs. Tatum had some great moments, and at times was the best player on the C's (Brown was the best at times too), but Horford was very easily the most consistent guy in the playoffs for them.

Horford was really good, Brown was really good, Stevens was really good. But I don't think it's hyperbole to say the guy that led his team in scoring and guarded the best opposing perimeter player led his team. I get the argument for Horford, but I don't think it's hyperbole to say it was Tatum.

[Patsfan1081]

Is it really? Tatum is incrementally improved from last season; who knows how much better he gets. It's not like he's some freak athlete looking to improve on some skills; he's already a very polished player. My opinion is that Siakim is significantly better today and im not comfortable betting on Tatum to close that gap over the next 5 years, which is really that matters to me.

Significantly better? Putting that bad take aside look at all the basest wings in the league, George, Butler, Leonard, Dipo, etc.... They took their jump around 24/25, so didn't Siakam. Tatum is 20, his rebounding and assist % has improved though still the area he needs to improve the most. However whhat separates him most from the others is he doesn't get nearly as many touches, even freakin Marcus Morris is a option over him at this point. There's a difference between being polished and coming into the league with a decent shot.

Lets not take it aside.

16/7/3 on 63 TS%, and a 19 PER
16/6/2 on 56 TS% and a 16 PER

Siakim is 4th amongst PF's with an RPM of 3.6 and is the 2nd best on his team
Tatum is 16th amonst SF's with an RPM of 1 and it's the 5th best on his team

Siakim is also significantly higher in advanced metrics like BPM/VORP/Win shares.

Almost every metric rates Siakim as having star impact and Tatum as having starter impact. So yes, significantly better today is the phrasing i would use.

More to your point though by your examples; all those guys, save maybe Dipo, came in extremely raw and were basically defensive role players for their first few years. No comparison to Tatum. Those guys trajectory is actually closer to Siakim than Tatum

Siakam isn't an outside shooter, comparing his offensive game to Tatum's is apples to oranges. Same with rpm and certain advanced stats. The same comps wouldn't put Marcus Smart over Westbrook and Walker. Plus you can't just dismiss their previous seasons if you want to dismiss their age gap. Leonard, George, etc... were all lottery picks with multiple years in college, how are they more raw than a decent he and done Tatum?

[antonac]

Tatum also has the far better 3pt shot.

(yes I know their numbers are similar this year, but Tatum now has two seasons of being a good 3pt shooter, with the potential to increase it incrementally while Siakam's stats are as likely to be a outlier as a sustainable level, and even at that Tatum is still better on more attempts.)

[Patsfan1081]

Pascal is better on both ends of the floor, he's also 4 years older and was nowhere near as polished as Tatum is at the same age.

How is he better on both ends? Tatum has had better defensive numbers since coming into the league, he was top ten in dws and b+- as a rookie, and they're different players offensively. Tatum is much more of a shooter, Siakam a finisher, and their rebound/assist numbers have been about the same.

Offenisvely Pascal is scoring similar amount on way better efficiency while playmaking more with a better assist/TO ratio. Obviously different roles are hard to compare but Siakam has been more impactful offensively, for a much better offensive team. advanced defensive stats are notoriously bad at capturing actual defense, I'd take Siakam anyday on that end as well but since its the "eye test" no point in debating.

If you want to say eye test than I'll give it to you, but then I'll also point out Pascal has had more develope t time and as a rookie wasn't as good on that side of the ball. At the end of the day Tatum is significantly younger with a bigger sample size of good play, including the playoffs. That's why he's looked at as the more valuable asset.