Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[Airseven]

Meanwhile Doncic posts 28, 10, and 10. My word.

[Frank Lee]

We have a pretty good rookie center, but he is no superstar, nor looks like he will be one. He could/should develop into 20/10 guy with decent defense. Thats it. Want no more and you wont be disappointed. He just doesnt have the BBIQ to be anything better than an above average C. Top tier, as in top 2-3 Cs....? I just dont see it. This guy is KAT if he peaks out. He defensive woes and lack of consistent effort will keep him in from AllNBA status... but he should be able to put up acceptable #s. Hes not a bust by any means.... but he wasnt the right selection if we were looking for a game changer.

Yay.

[bwgood77]

Click this to expand (twice) to see full stats and Igor's quote....Ayton definitely moving in the right direction here...

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[WeekapaugGroove]

Click this to expand (twice) to see full stats and Igor's quote....Ayton definitely moving in the right direction here...

Read on Twitter

It's a good sign for sure. And I absolutely agree with the approach of having him focus on defensive development right now. I think one problem with Booker was he was asked to do so much on O early in his career he never really broke some bad habits on D.

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[sunsbg]

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[sunsbg]

His defensive stats may indicate an improvement, but looked really soft on a few defensive plays in last game. A tough PF is a must.

On offense there is no reason to not include him more, someone even put the time to create above video of him being underutilized.

[GoodBehavior]

His defensive stats may indicate an improvement, but looked really soft on a few defensive plays in last game. A tough PF is a must.

On offense there is no reason to not include him more, someone even put the time to create above video of him being underutilized.

The biggest issue with him is that he switches on the PNR way, way too early. It's almost like he's trying to trap them but trapping them too late. It's weird and it leaves opposing bigs open way too much. His rim protection and timing has gotten better, but for him to get to average or above average, he needs to solve the PNR issue.

[bwgood77]

He gets over 12 shots a game. Doncic and Young get just over 15 and 14 and handle the ball all game. Ayton gets the most of any rookie big and isn't far behind the top rookies in shots per game. Sure I wouldn't mind him getting more, but it's not as big of deal as many seem to make it out to be. He gets quite a few more touches too, but if he doesn't take a shot within 1 or 2 seconds, he passes out, and won't dribble to make a move, so he almost HAS to catch it in perfect position to score without a dribble...all this while usually being double teamed.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

His defensive stats may indicate an improvement, but looked really soft on a few defensive plays in last game. A tough PF is a must.

On offense there is no reason to not include him more, someone even put the time to create above video of him being underutilized.

The biggest issue with him is that he switches on the PNR way, way too early. It's almost like he's trying to trap them but trapping them too late. It's weird and it leaves opposing bigs open way too much. His rim protection and timing has gotten better, but for him to get to average or above average, he needs to solve the PNR issue.

Doesn't help that there's never another player on the court who can even for two seconds cover a big.

[sunsbg]

He gets over 12 shots a game. Doncic and Young get just over 15 and 14 and handle the ball all game. Ayton gets the most of any rookie big and isn't far behind the top rookies in shots per game. Sure I wouldn't mind him getting more, but it's not as big of deal as many seem to make it out to be. He gets quite a few more touches too, but if he doesn't take a shot within 1 or 2 seconds, he passes out, and won't dribble to make a move, so he almost HAS to catch it in perfect position to score without a dribble...all this while usually being double teamed.

The shots gap is just going to increase, no doubt about that. Both Dallas and Atlanta have already given the keys to their rookies. Ayton had 9, 8, 11 shots last three games. Doncic has probably 2-3 times the FTs without having looked at stats. Ayton should be fed in the post more and asked to draw fouls. It's a thing he needs to learn and isn't this losing season all about that. Oubre may not even be on the team next season, why give him all the shots he likes.

[bwgood77]

He gets over 12 shots a game. Doncic and Young get just over 15 and 14 and handle the ball all game. Ayton gets the most of any rookie big and isn't far behind the top rookies in shots per game. Sure I wouldn't mind him getting more, but it's not as big of deal as many seem to make it out to be. He gets quite a few more touches too, but if he doesn't take a shot within 1 or 2 seconds, he passes out, and won't dribble to make a move, so he almost HAS to catch it in perfect position to score without a dribble...all this while usually being double teamed.

The shots gap is just going to increase, no doubt about that. Both Dallas and Atlanta have already given the keys to their rookies. Ayton had 9, 8, 11 shots last three games. Doncic has probably 2-3 times the FTs without having looked at stats. Ayton should be fed in the post more and asked to draw fouls. It's a thing he needs to learn and isn't this losing season all about that. Oubre may not even be on the team next season, why give him all the shots he likes.

He can't really be fed until we have the shooters around him. So depends on if we move on from Oubre, Jackson, etc. If he gets Johnson, Booker, Bridges and Warren around him in upcoming games he will be more wide open to get the ball to.

And when he does have a big qtr the defense adjusts. It's not for a lack of trying to get Ayton involved. He just passes out often.

[jcsunsfan]

Ayton gets almost exactly the same number of elbow touches as Embiid. He is fifth in the entire NBA in paint touches. The fact that Ayton only gets 12 shot is because he passes the ball away. This is not about coaching and its not about his teammates getting him the ball. His 12 shots per game is his own fault.

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=PAINT_TOUCHES&dir=1

[WeekapaugGroove]

His defensive stats may indicate an improvement, but looked really soft on a few defensive plays in last game. A tough PF is a must.

On offense there is no reason to not include him more, someone even put the time to create above video of him being underutilized.

The biggest issue with him is that he switches on the PNR way, way too early. It's almost like he's trying to trap them but trapping them too late. It's weird and it leaves opposing bigs open way too much. His rim protection and timing has gotten better, but for him to get to average or above average, he needs to solve the PNR issue.

Doesn't help that there's never another player on the court who can even for two seconds cover a big.

Yeah this is a problem along with the suns guards doing a poor job. But he does get himself caught in no man's land way way to often.

Hopefully with reps this improves.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[lilfishi22]

His defensive stats may indicate an improvement, but looked really soft on a few defensive plays in last game. A tough PF is a must.

On offense there is no reason to not include him more, someone even put the time to create above video of him being underutilized.

Ayton has never been a tough defender and that's why he's still looks soft in a lot of defensive possessions but when he's locked in on an individual, he's quite good. At this stage, I'll take any measurable improvement.

[lilfishi22]

His defensive stats may indicate an improvement, but looked really soft on a few defensive plays in last game. A tough PF is a must.

On offense there is no reason to not include him more, someone even put the time to create above video of him being underutilized.

The biggest issue with him is that he switches on the PNR way, way too early. It's almost like he's trying to trap them but trapping them too late. It's weird and it leaves opposing bigs open way too much. His rim protection and timing has gotten better, but for him to get to average or above average, he needs to solve the PNR issue.

I think that's far more about our team defensive scheme to cover our weaker defenders like Booker than it is him necessarily being too eager on the PnR switch. It's guys like Booker, Crawford and even TJ switching very early on the PnR without really settling down to defend on ball. THe problem is that these guys aren't very good at covering the switch either which makes Ayton's switching look worse. When I watch Bridges for example, with his length he does a really good job on recovering to cover the switch and really let's Ayton not have to worry about the guy he just switched off on.

[lilfishi22]

He gets over 12 shots a game. Doncic and Young get just over 15 and 14 and handle the ball all game. Ayton gets the most of any rookie big and isn't far behind the top rookies in shots per game. Sure I wouldn't mind him getting more, but it's not as big of deal as many seem to make it out to be. He gets quite a few more touches too, but if he doesn't take a shot within 1 or 2 seconds, he passes out, and won't dribble to make a move, so he almost HAS to catch it in perfect position to score without a dribble...all this while usually being double teamed.

The shots gap is just going to increase, no doubt about that. Both Dallas and Atlanta have already given the keys to their rookies. Ayton had 9, 8, 11 shots last three games. Doncic has probably 2-3 times the FTs without having looked at stats. Ayton should be fed in the post more and asked to draw fouls. It's a thing he needs to learn and isn't this losing season all about that. Oubre may not even be on the team next season, why give him all the shots he likes.

That's not necessarily going to ever be equal though. It's just the way the NBA is going and favoring elite ball handlers who can also shoot. The big men of today will be relegated to secondary scorers unless they are elite scorers who can initiate from the 3PT line (KAT, Embiid, Jokic) or are elite playmakers (like Jokic). Right now Ayton is neither of these things and it would take some time for him to get to that level, if he ever does.

The problem with post offense is that it's a lot easier to help on and so it's generally more easily well-defended. We can't just feed him in the post and expect him to score or draw fouls when any basic NBA defense will just send a help defender down crowd him and we don't have the shooters to make teams pay. A lot of times when he does get the ball in the post, it's usually not in a great offensive position and he's kind of forced to send it back out anyway.

I do think that he should get more touches on offense and not just on hand offs even he doesn't have to use those possessions if it's not positionally advantageous.

[Frank Lee]

Ayton gets almost exactly the same number of elbow touches as Embiid. He is fifth in the entire NBA in paint touches. The fact that Ayton only gets 12 shot is because he passes the ball away. This is not about coaching and its not about his teammates getting him the ball. His 12 shots per game is his own fault.

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=PAINT_TOUCHES&dir=1

well put JC.... see how one stat corrects the concluding perception of another. The Big Passive has a lot to learn on both ends.

[AtheJ415]

Click this to expand (twice) to see full stats and Igor's quote....Ayton definitely moving in the right direction here...

Read on Twitter

This isn't being discussed enough. Just to put this in perspective for some who still seem to not be happy with his progress on defense.

70% is like worst in the league bad. That is what Ayton started at.

54-55% is what Gobert does. That's right, the past 2 months he is at Gobert's percentages (though on a few less defended possessions a game). That is a MASSIVE improvement in a very short period of time. He still gets lost a few possessions a game but he is improving in both and that's what you want.

Sure, you may think he's "soft" or "passive" or whatever, but at the end of the day I would rather have a soft anchor defending at 54-55% at the rim relative to a "hard" defender at a league average percentage.

Also, at the end of the day this game is about efficiency. You need guys who can score the most points on the fewest shots, get others open shots, and defend efficiently. Raw totals are a thing of the past. Ayton is already one of the best rookies ever in terms of scoring efficiency and he has created a ton of shots for others as a passer and just by his gravity. His defensive efficiency has not been great, but not nearly as bad as some suggest (I think he was at -0.2 DBPM or DRPM as of a couple weeks ago, which is way ahead of Towns at the same stage, and he didn't become a decent defender until this year). Ayton is actually ahead of the curve, and nobody seems to give a damn. His efficiency is exactly why the numbers put him so much closer to Luka than anybody realizes. He's not as flashy, and he isn't a primary creator in that same way, but he's still a problem on offense even when he doesn't shoot and unlike Luka, may end up a plus on defense if he can keep this up. Hell, if anybody on this freaking team could hit a 3 we may actually win some games and his BPM might improve.

He's still the 2nd best rookie (I love Young and had him very high on my board for Phx but his percentages are terrible on the year), and actually that gap may have closed a little the last few weeks because Luka's shooting has been declining.

[lilfishi22]

Click this to expand (twice) to see full stats and Igor's quote....Ayton definitely moving in the right direction here...

Read on Twitter

This isn't being discussed enough. Just to put this in perspective for some who still seem to not be happy with his progress on defense.

70% is like worst in the league bad. That is what Ayton started at.

54-55% is what Gobert does. That's right, the past 2 months he is at Gobert's percentages (though on a few less defended possessions a game). That is a MASSIVE improvement in a very short period of time. He still gets lost a few possessions a game but he is improving in both and that's what you want.

Sure, you may think he's "soft" or "passive" or whatever, but at the end of the day I would rather have a soft anchor defending at 54-55% at the rim relative to a "hard" defender at a league average percentage.

Also, at the end of the day this game is about efficiency. You need guys who can score the most points on the fewest shots, get others open shots, and defend efficiently. Raw totals are a thing of the past. Ayton is already one of the best rookies ever in terms of scoring efficiency and he has created a ton of shots for others as a passer and just by his gravity. His defensive efficiency has not been great, but not nearly as bad as some suggest (I think he was at -0.2 DBPM or DRPM as of a couple weeks ago, which is way ahead of Towns at the same stage, and he didn't become a decent defender until this year). Ayton is actually ahead of the curve, and nobody seems to give a damn. His efficiency is exactly why the numbers put him so much closer to Luka than anybody realizes. He's not as flashy, and he isn't a primary creator in that same way, but he's still a problem on offense even when he doesn't shoot and unlike Luka, may end up a plus on defense if he can keep this up. Hell, if anybody on this freaking team could hit a 3 we may actually win some games and his BPM might improve.

He's still the 2nd best rookie (I love Young and had him very high on my board for Phx but his percentages are terrible on the year), and actually that gap may have closed a little the last few weeks because Luka's shooting has been declining.

I'd put Young at the same level of Ayton. If you consider Ayton's recent improvement on defense then you need to also consider Young's improvement offensively. Above league average efficiency and well above league average 3PT%. But that's me because I put more value in shot creation and team offense initiation, over rebounding and efficient paint offense.

People don't care about Ayton because he can't initiate offense (yet). He's reliant on getting himself in a good position and reliant on the team to get him the ball. With the way the league is and has been going, big men offense (ie offense in the paint) is being diminished, there's just way more value in player who can create for you and they tend to be the ones who are more likely to be talked about. Subjectively, I don't find Ayotn particularly fun to watch either.

Regarding Ayton's defense and this is the same point I've made in the past but being a big C almost makes you the default defensive anchor and that's no small role. For his position and the defensive role of that position, he has to be really good (and he's making good progress) in order to play that defensive role satisfactorily. It isn't the same for wings where you can put a really good defensive anchor behind them to cover up their weakness and still be a top tier defensive team. It's unfair that the margin for error between wings and big men is so different but it is what it is. I don't think Luka has to be more than an average defender for the Mavs to be a top defensive team if you have rim running defensive big behind him. I don't think I can say the same for Ayton.

[AtheJ415]

Click this to expand (twice) to see full stats and Igor's quote....Ayton definitely moving in the right direction here...

Read on Twitter

This isn't being discussed enough. Just to put this in perspective for some who still seem to not be happy with his progress on defense.

70% is like worst in the league bad. That is what Ayton started at.

54-55% is what Gobert does. That's right, the past 2 months he is at Gobert's percentages (though on a few less defended possessions a game). That is a MASSIVE improvement in a very short period of time. He still gets lost a few possessions a game but he is improving in both and that's what you want.

Sure, you may think he's "soft" or "passive" or whatever, but at the end of the day I would rather have a soft anchor defending at 54-55% at the rim relative to a "hard" defender at a league average percentage.

Also, at the end of the day this game is about efficiency. You need guys who can score the most points on the fewest shots, get others open shots, and defend efficiently. Raw totals are a thing of the past. Ayton is already one of the best rookies ever in terms of scoring efficiency and he has created a ton of shots for others as a passer and just by his gravity. His defensive efficiency has not been great, but not nearly as bad as some suggest (I think he was at -0.2 DBPM or DRPM as of a couple weeks ago, which is way ahead of Towns at the same stage, and he didn't become a decent defender until this year). Ayton is actually ahead of the curve, and nobody seems to give a damn. His efficiency is exactly why the numbers put him so much closer to Luka than anybody realizes. He's not as flashy, and he isn't a primary creator in that same way, but he's still a problem on offense even when he doesn't shoot and unlike Luka, may end up a plus on defense if he can keep this up. Hell, if anybody on this freaking team could hit a 3 we may actually win some games and his BPM might improve.

He's still the 2nd best rookie (I love Young and had him very high on my board for Phx but his percentages are terrible on the year), and actually that gap may have closed a little the last few weeks because Luka's shooting has been declining.

I'd put Young at the same level of Ayton. If you consider Ayton's recent improvement on defense then you need to also consider Young's improvement offensively. Above league average efficiency and well above league average 3PT%. But that's me because I put more value in shot creation and team offense initiation, over rebounding and efficient paint offense.

People don't care about Ayton because he can't initiate offense (yet). He's reliant on getting himself in a good position and reliant on the team to get him the ball. With the way the league is and has been going, big men offense (ie offense in the paint) is being diminished, there's just way more value in player who can create for you and they tend to be the ones who are more likely to be talked about. Subjectively, I don't find Ayotn particularly fun to watch either.

Regarding Ayton's defense and this is the same point I've made in the past but being a big C almost makes you the default defensive anchor and that's no small role. For his position and the defensive role of that position, he has to be really good (and he's making good progress) in order to play that defensive role satisfactorily. It isn't the same for wings where you can put a really good defensive anchor behind them to cover up their weakness and still be a top tier defensive team. It's unfair that the margin for error between wings and big men is so different but it is what it is. I don't think Luka has to be more than an average defender for the Mavs to be a top defensive team if you have rim running defensive big behind him. I don't think I can say the same for Ayton.

I'm not talking opinion when I say Ayton is the #2 rookie. The numbers are very clear, even with Young's improvement. Also, I'd argue Ayton does initiate offense in the sense that he passes very well for his size and he also gets everyone a ton of shots due to his gravity, which is one of the best in the league already, and if our team could shoot at all it would lead to a lot of points. When Ayton moves 3-4 players on the defense move EVERY TIME.

You don't need to score points or get assists to create offense if you draw that much attention. Ayton already does.

Luka could easily end up the better player. He is today, but that should have been expected. Ayton has more upside, but we'll have to see if he reaches it. Importance or not, at the end of the day if Ayton keeps his rim protection at the 55% level he's been at the past 2 months (maybe unlikely, but certainly possible) and adds a 3 point shot (which I think is more a matter of time and will occur), that's a defensive anchor center who can stretch the floor and is elite inside. That is an MVP candidate.

Point being, don't let Luka being fantastic distract you from the fact that Ayton's upside is still the highest in the draft and he's showing rapid improvement at the main weakness he has, while Luka's shooting is dropping with the worse cast around him. That gap isn't as big as people think.