What exactly makes Tatum more talked about/ranked higher than Pascal Siakim?

[ForeverTFC]

Might just be the Celtics this year but Tatum has came back down to earth quite a bit. Which to me doesnt make a ton of sense since he is still at least the 2nd option on the Celtics

The sophmore slump is a real thing. If this season is Tatum hitting the 2nd year wall, then he and the Celtics (or the Pelicans) will be just fine.

Those who were expecting Tatum to be a lock superstar weren't watching close enough. But his chances of being a perennial all-star are still very high.

[cl2117]

Why are people bringing up potential?

Tatum's potential isn't very high, I've been saying this since last season started. He was already a very polished offensive player even his one year at Duke and his weaknesses will prevent him from taking the next step. He finished with 80th+ percentiles in almost every single play type last season so it's not like he's got a lot of room to grow in the things he already does pretty well (spot up shooting, isolation, etc)

What would actually prevent him from improving on his weaknesses? Nothing. So how can he not have potential to get better when he is only 20 years old and in his second year?

Legitimately one of the dumbest arguments I've seen on the topic.

[The_Hater]

26-27 years of age is widely regarded as the time most high level athletes ENTER their athletic prime .... not start to exit it.

It's also the point when most bigs START to understand and figure out the league, as bigs almost always take longer to develop.

You’re pretty much saying the exact same thing while somehow arguing the opposite.

You enter your prime at 26 which means that <26 are your development years. Dhsilv never said that a players peak ends at age 26, you assumed that, he even added that it flatlines around 26 which means there would be a few seasons at that level.

He said that at 26 you flatline or decline athletically. That's just not true. ENTERING your athletic prime is when athletes are most comfortable in their own skin, and are able to do things they had never done before at a high level

You only posted half of what he wrote. Here’s the full text.

Now remember I said at 26 athletic ability starts to drop or flat line. Certainly a player can get better at their game but at that point the weight lifting, the maturity from going from a kid to teen to man has reached that tipping point

Here it appears he’s was only talking about athleticism, not their overall games and skill level and iq level. And he separated that. And anyone who played sports between ages 21-30 will agree that you don’t generally have the same level of raw athleticism at age 29-30 as they do at a younger age. It does start to decline in the late 20’s.

[LoveMyRaps]

This can't be a real question.

Jason Tatum is clearly as good as Pascal at the age of 20. His value universally around the league is also higher. I love Spicy P, but lets not get carried away.

The "mileage" theory also is one that's played out. Both guys have a bright future and lets leave it at that.

I'm also ok with Pascal being under the radar - means we'll pay him less than max as an FA.

lol what? even celtics fans dont believe that.

[dhsilv2]

No...you think it's younger?

26-27 years of age is widely regarded as the time most high level athletes ENTER their athletic prime .... not start to exit it.

It's also the point when most bigs START to understand and figure out the league, as bigs almost always take longer to develop.

You’re pretty much saying the exact same thing while somehow arguing the opposite.

You enter your prime at 26 which means that <26 are your development years. Dhsilv never said that a players peak ends at age 26, you assumed that, he even added that it flatlines around 26 which means there would be a few seasons at that level.

More to the point is that athletically you're likely done about 26. You can add to your game, but most guys start to drop off athletically. The elite players maintain or their development in skills with their "peak" level body allows some more growth. This is of course all on average, everyone can be a bit different. Guys who's game is low skill high athletics, are in real trouble after 26. Higher skill guys are the opposite.

[TheRealKaboom]

Siakim is way more jacked...so I'm not following the looks thing. Siakim would be way better in a male forward action flick. Tatum would be the guy Siakim was shooting.

Also, don’t forget the prejudicial element that Shaq dropped on national TV at the all star game about about Stephen Curry. There’s truly some resentment in black America over a perception that lighter-skinned black Americans seem to perceived separately and more favorably in many ways including popularity in movies, music and on TV.

Tatum looks like someone Disney would cast. Pascal does not. And this can influence bias in people perceive Star power without even realizing it.

All of this stuff adds up. It’s not the main reason obviously. It may only be a small tiny reason but it contributes on a subconscious level toward how fans view players and star potential. Tatum was seen by some as a future face of the league in part, but obviously not limited to, the fact that he “looks the part” to a lot of people.

If Aminu had Giannis game would he be seen as the face of the sport the way Giannis is?

I get why women might like Tatum...he looks like some kinda young model dude, but men? Siakim is way more manly looking. Guys want to be Arnold, not brad pitt.

It's been scientifically proven that good looking people change the brain chemistry of others when others look at them. Staring at a good looking person regardless of gender releases chemicals in the brain that make the good looking person seem more intelligent, more talented, more capable . . . even if they're none of those things.

Muscles have nothing to do with it, it's about facial attractiveness. Average looking (and ugly) guys can work out until their body looks like the Hulk, and it won't matter. Their faces still lack the brain chemistry altering feature that good looking guys are born with. You can't work out your face, unfortunately for average looking dudes. It's like a gross ugly chick getting a boob job. She's still gross.

This is why a guy like Tatum, who in his second year in the NBA still can't figure out how to average more than a single assist per game, is being called a superstar. Meanwhile Pascal Siakim may as well be invisible, as good of a basketball player as he is.

[everdiso]

It's amazing what sinking some fadeaways can do for a player's rep.

[Sandman88]

Tatum is 20 and Siakam is 24.

Siakam has been playing basketball for lke 7 years, so the age advantage doesn't apply as much here.

[clyde21]

Tatum is 20 and Siakam is 24.

Siakam has been playing basketball for lke 7 years, so the age advantage doesn't apply as much here.

would it still 'not apply' when Siakam is 30 and Tatum is 26?

[hoosierdaddy34]

People need to stop doing this as Siakem is almost 25, he is very near his ceiling. If a 21 or 22 year old are anywhere close in skills to 25 year old, it’s really not that close. The 21 or 22 year old will be far better.

Siakem isn’t an all-star level player. He is and will be a very good NBA player for his career. And that ok.

[LAL]

Tatum is 20 and Siakam is 24.

Siakam has been playing basketball for lke 7 years, so the age advantage doesn't apply as much here.

would it still 'not apply' when Siakam is 30 and Tatum is 26?

Those expecting Tatum to overtake Siakam are gonna be waiting a lot time if their current development curves hold. Siakam is currently better and improving faster, so something is gonna have to change for Tatum to overtake him unless he wants to catch him on Siakam’s way down (which may not be for 10 more years).

[Sandman88]

Tatum carried the Celtics to a game 7 against LeBron.

Siakam got swept.

Maybe thats why?

I guess you just started watching Ball last year? We're talkin about this year where...you know..Siakam is a leading MIP candidate. No one is disputing tatum was better last year.

[GeorgeMarcus]

People need to stop doing this as Siakem is almost 25, he is very near his ceiling. If a 21 or 22 year old are anywhere close in skills to 25 year old, it’s really not that close. The 21 or 22 year old will be far better.

Siakem isn’t an all-star level player. He is and will be a very good NBA player for his career. And that ok.

Siakam may be approaching his ceiling, but the fact that Tatum regressed from 19 to 20 is something to consider. Different players have different development trajectories.

[Hoopz Afrik]

Sometimes we overstate age when gauging potential especially for folks who got a late start to basketball. After seeing the leap Siakam made from year 2 to year 3, it's seems like a ridiculous notion to suggest that he's closed to or at his ceiling just because he's 24 years old. I could see if he was 28 or 29, but he's still pretty damn young and has a lot more to learn on the basketball court and about the NBA.

[bigtimeRC3]

tatum ceiling is tobias harris. theres nothing that spectacular about his game.

[GQ Hot Dog]

Considering Tatum flattening out from his 1st to 2nd season and Siakam's big leap toward the second half of this season they have pretty similar impact. The age difference is not insubstantial though giving Tatum more value.

[dhsilv2]

Also, don’t forget the prejudicial element that Shaq dropped on national TV at the all star game about about Stephen Curry. There’s truly some resentment in black America over a perception that lighter-skinned black Americans seem to perceived separately and more favorably in many ways including popularity in movies, music and on TV.

Tatum looks like someone Disney would cast. Pascal does not. And this can influence bias in people perceive Star power without even realizing it.

All of this stuff adds up. It’s not the main reason obviously. It may only be a small tiny reason but it contributes on a subconscious level toward how fans view players and star potential. Tatum was seen by some as a future face of the league in part, but obviously not limited to, the fact that he “looks the part” to a lot of people.

If Aminu had Giannis game would he be seen as the face of the sport the way Giannis is?

I get why women might like Tatum...he looks like some kinda young model dude, but men? Siakim is way more manly looking. Guys want to be Arnold, not brad pitt.

It's been scientifically proven that good looking people change the brain chemistry of others when others look at them. Staring at a good looking person regardless of gender releases chemicals in the brain that make the good looking person seem more intelligent, more talented, more capable . . . even if they're none of those things.

Muscles have nothing to do with it, it's about facial attractiveness. Average looking (and ugly) guys can work out until their body looks like the Hulk, and it won't matter. Their faces still lack the brain chemistry altering feature that good looking guys are born with. You can't work out your face, unfortunately for average looking dudes. It's like a gross ugly chick getting a boob job. She's still gross.

This is why a guy like Tatum, who in his second year in the NBA still can't figure out how to average more than a single assist per game, is being called a superstar. Meanwhile Pascal Siakim may as well be invisible, as good of a basketball player as he is.

Not sure I'd consider either good looking guys. And the fix for most women is loosing weight, but I digress. Siakim looks more like a guy I'd expect to see in a movie. I'm not sure it's a factor at all here. It's likely a lot more to do with where they play, the playoffs, and Bill Simmons.

[hoosierdaddy34]

People need to stop doing this as Siakem is almost 25, he is very near his ceiling. If a 21 or 22 year old are anywhere close in skills to 25 year old, it’s really not that close. The 21 or 22 year old will be far better.

Siakem isn’t an all-star level player. He is and will be a very good NBA player for his career. And that ok.

Siakam may be approaching his ceiling, but the fact that Tatum regressed from 19 to 20 is something to consider. Different players have different development trajectories.

A “Sophmore Slump” isn’t uncommon for a 2nd year player and isn’t indicative at all of any young player. As the NBA gets a scouting report on guys the defense gets tougher. Some guys don’t have any other wrinkles in their game to over come that. Some guys are able to adjust and develop past those defensive strategies. 2 years of data isn’t nearly enough time to make any sort of conclusions on any young high pedigree player, especially if they are under 22. Also you have the physical maturity and additional strength advantages that come with NBA player development that are working for the younger player.

[dukes_wild]

tatum ceiling is tobias harris. theres nothing that spectacular about his game.

Yep.

Harris is a very good comp for Tatum, it's been my comparison for him since I first saw him at Duke.

[reload141]

Tatum is 20 and Siakam is 24.

Siakam has been playing basketball for lke 7 years, so the age advantage doesn't apply as much here.

It does, you just fail to acknowledge it.