What exactly makes Tatum more talked about/ranked higher than Pascal Siakim?

[Jazztop]

Siakam is better now and there’s nothing to indicate that he won’t be in 5 years.

Sometimes people overrate youth. And like someone already pointed out - Siakam has had way less basketball experience overall.

[The Flying Gent]

Youth is so extremely overrated. People look at the performances of new players in the league and simply assume that certain progress from that point is likely if not inevitable. It makes no sense at all.

[johanliebert]

This is one of those threads that wont age well.

I dont understand the lack of experience argument with siakim as he wont be able to catch up lol. Fact is tatun at 19 was more advanced as an offensive player..not 20 at 19.

When you start late you cant go back in time or outwork pros like tatum to make up for it.

And when did siakim become the consensus better player?

[johanliebert]

26?????
You're kidding right?

No...you think it's younger?

No you’re right on point here. 25-29 is generally considered the peak years for an NBA players, there have been studies about this but I don’t have a link.

But remember that having watched Lowry and Derozan improve much later than what is normal has skewed the perceptions of many Raptor fans. And with Siakam, the fact that he picked up the sport much later in life may have moved his development curve forward as well. That seems to be what is happening right now. Time will tell on that.

Your developmental curve doesnt move forward if you start late..thats why he has no natural scoring ability.

Hes 6'10 and very athletic thats how he scores.

Also his bros played college ball i dont believe he started at 15..maybe he started organized ball

[Jazztop]

This is one of those threads that wont age well.

And when did siakim become the consensus better player?

Since we had computers to upload stats, eyes to watch games and (for some of us) a brain to analyze both.

[LakersSoul]

Youth is so extremely overrated. People look at the performances of new players in the league and simply assume that certain progress from that point is likely if not inevitable. It makes no sense at all.

I guess, in most comparisons, it’s the difference between part-time amateur player in college as opposed to a full-time NBA professional with all the tools and staff needed to help you focus on your trait.

That and NBA prime age hardly goes up so you only have a certain number of years before you decline in 99.9% of cases.

[pingpongrac]

This is one of those threads that wont age well.

I dont understand the lack of experience argument with siakim as he wont be able to catch up lol. Fact is tatun at 19 was more advanced as an offensive player..not 20 at 19.

When you start late you cant go back in time or outwork pros like tatum to make up for it.

And when did siakim become the consensus better player?

Siakam has been the better player by almost every single metric.

Siakam: 55 FG%, 37 3FG%, 79 FT%, 7.0 REB, 2.9 AST, 1.0 STL, 0.7 BLK, 16.3 PPG, 18.8 PER, 63 TS%, .178 ws/48, 2.8 VORP, 3.85 RPM (2.00 ORPM, 1.85 DRPM)
Tatum: 46 FG%, 38 3FG%, 86 FT%, 6.2 REB, 1.8 AST, 1.0 STL, 0.8 BLK, 16.3 PPG, 15.9 PER, 56 TS%, .114 ws/48, 0.8 VORP, 0.85 RPM (0.14.ORPM, 0.71 DRPM)

They're pretty close in box score stats (Siakam with a very slight edge overall), but Siakam's impact completely blows away Tatum's impact.

[The_Hater]

No...you think it's younger?

No you’re right on point here. 25-29 is generally considered the peak years for an NBA players, there have been studies about this but I don’t have a link.

But remember that having watched Lowry and Derozan improve much later than what is normal has skewed the perceptions of many Raptor fans. And with Siakam, the fact that he picked up the sport much later in life may have moved his development curve forward as well. That seems to be what is happening right now. Time will tell on that.

Your developmental curve doesnt move forward if you start late..thats why he has no natural scoring ability.

What? Of course it does. The development curve is there as the most common arc most athletes. It’s an aggregate or an avaerage. That doesn’t meant that 100% of all athletes have the exact same development curve and Siakam is proving that in real time.

If you had never picked up a basketball in your life but decided to pick up the sport at age 26-27 and played and practiced every day, are you saying that you wouldn’t be able to show any improvement whatsoever because their development curve is over? What if you picked up the sport at age 30?

And your comment about his scoring ability is just plain odd since he’s shows improvement in this area almost by the month.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

No you’re right on point here. 25-29 is generally considered the peak years for an NBA players, there have been studies about this but I don’t have a link.

But remember that having watched Lowry and Derozan improve much later than what is normal has skewed the perceptions of many Raptor fans. And with Siakam, the fact that he picked up the sport much later in life may have moved his development curve forward as well. That seems to be what is happening right now. Time will tell on that.

Your developmental curve doesnt move forward if you start late..thats why he has no natural scoring ability.

What? Of course it does. The development curve is there as the most common arc most athletes. It’s an aggregate or an avaerage. That doesn’t meant that 100% of all athletes have the exact same development curve and Siakam is proving that in real time.

If you had never picked up a basketball in your life but decided to pick up the sport at age 26-27 and played and practiced every day, are you saying that you wouldn’t be able to show any improvement whatsoever because their development curve is over? What if you picked up the sport at age 30?

And your comment about his scoring ability is just plain odd since he’s shows improvement in this area almost by the month.

well to be frank, i don't think we have seen a player like Siakam, with late player development in the sport to be as good as he is.

we get the motor - that can't be taught. natural court sense like knowing where people are on the court - can't be taught.

but his improvement in shooting, handling the ball, post moves - are all phenomenal vs a guy like Tatum - who's had more time to development into the game.

Siakam's development isn't the rule - he's the exception

[King Ken]

In order to be like Siakam, you must have a natural feel for the game. Giannis had it. Hakeem had it. Embiid had it. If you don't have it, you better have start playing since you were 5.

[The_Hater]

Your developmental curve doesnt move forward if you start late..thats why he has no natural scoring ability.

What? Of course it does. The development curve is there as the most common arc most athletes. It’s an aggregate or an avaerage. That doesn’t meant that 100% of all athletes have the exact same development curve and Siakam is proving that in real time.

If you had never picked up a basketball in your life but decided to pick up the sport at age 26-27 and played and practiced every day, are you saying that you wouldn’t be able to show any improvement whatsoever because their development curve is over? What if you picked up the sport at age 30?

And your comment about his scoring ability is just plain odd since he’s shows improvement in this area almost by the month.

well to be frank, i don't think we have seen a player like Siakam, with late player development in the sport to be as good as he is.

we get the motor - that can't be taught. natural court sense like knowing where people are on the court - can't be taught.

but his improvement in shooting, handling the ball, post moves - are all phenomenal vs a guy like Tatum - who's had more time to development into the game.

Siakam's development isn't the rule - he's the exception

Exactly. The thing is, the Raptor’s have now had 3 such players in recent years because both Lowry and Derozan showed later than expected development. Not as much improvement as Siakam, but still outside the normal curve. I’m guessing some Raptor fans are going to expect this all the time now.

[6ixSideSniper]

This is the one line where you're wrong. He's 20, Pascal is 24. Pascal has a more developed body. Hence why a lot people will say age.

I disagree. Tatum developed early. He pretty much has his adult body already. He had it last year too. Siakim is still skinny and has more room to add strength and weight without sacrificing his athleticism.

Wow. You're not at all biased in this opinion by any chance are you? Lol

I just think he doesn’t know how life works in general.

[RaptorPride]

What? Of course it does. The development curve is there as the most common arc most athletes. It’s an aggregate or an avaerage. That doesn’t meant that 100% of all athletes have the exact same development curve and Siakam is proving that in real time.

If you had never picked up a basketball in your life but decided to pick up the sport at age 26-27 and played and practiced every day, are you saying that you wouldn’t be able to show any improvement whatsoever because their development curve is over? What if you picked up the sport at age 30?

And your comment about his scoring ability is just plain odd since he’s shows improvement in this area almost by the month.

well to be frank, i don't think we have seen a player like Siakam, with late player development in the sport to be as good as he is.

we get the motor - that can't be taught. natural court sense like knowing where people are on the court - can't be taught.

but his improvement in shooting, handling the ball, post moves - are all phenomenal vs a guy like Tatum - who's had more time to development into the game.

Siakam's development isn't the rule - he's the exception

Exactly. The thing is, the Raptor’s have now had 3 such players in recent years because both Lowry and Derozan showed later than expected development. Not as much improvement as Siakam, but still outside the normal curve. I’m guessing some Raptor fans are going to expect this all the time now.

It could be how we develop players.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

What? Of course it does. The development curve is there as the most common arc most athletes. It’s an aggregate or an avaerage. That doesn’t meant that 100% of all athletes have the exact same development curve and Siakam is proving that in real time.

If you had never picked up a basketball in your life but decided to pick up the sport at age 26-27 and played and practiced every day, are you saying that you wouldn’t be able to show any improvement whatsoever because their development curve is over? What if you picked up the sport at age 30?

And your comment about his scoring ability is just plain odd since he’s shows improvement in this area almost by the month.

well to be frank, i don't think we have seen a player like Siakam, with late player development in the sport to be as good as he is.

we get the motor - that can't be taught. natural court sense like knowing where people are on the court - can't be taught.

but his improvement in shooting, handling the ball, post moves - are all phenomenal vs a guy like Tatum - who's had more time to development into the game.

Siakam's development isn't the rule - he's the exception

Exactly. The thing is, the Raptor’s have now had 3 such players in recent years because both Lowry and Derozan showed later than expected development. Not as much improvement as Siakam, but still outside the normal curve. I’m guessing some Raptor fans are going to expect this all the time now.

Derozan and Lowry have been playing ball forever, they needed all the assistants to further develop their games and controlling their game since Derozan would be Wiggins without great coaching. Lowry would be Felton if he didn't have a great organization backing him.

Raps have had probably some of the best bench of assistants in the last 4 years.

[Tron Carter]

Siakim is way more jacked...so I'm not following the looks thing. Siakim would be way better in a male forward action flick. Tatum would be the guy Siakim was shooting.

Also, don’t forget the prejudicial element that Shaq dropped on national TV at the all star game about about Stephen Curry. There’s truly some resentment in black America over a perception that lighter-skinned black Americans seem to perceived separately and more favorably in many ways including popularity in movies, music and on TV.

Tatum looks like someone Disney would cast. Pascal does not. And this can influence bias in people perceive Star power without even realizing it.

All of this stuff adds up. It’s not the main reason obviously. It may only be a small tiny reason but it contributes on a subconscious level toward how fans view players and star potential. Tatum was seen by some as a future face of the league in part, but obviously not limited to, the fact that he “looks the part” to a lot of people.

If Aminu had Giannis game would he be seen as the face of the sport the way Giannis is?

neither of them are particularly good looking. one is just lighter.

colorism

[Yoshun]

It's really not surprising considering what Tatum did last season. He was a key player in Boston's deep playoff run and he did it as a rookie. It shouldn't surprise anyone there would be high expectations for him.

People will notice Siakim more when Toronto makes a splash in the playoffs this year.

[demcanes26]

Siakam is better now and there’s nothing to indicate that he won’t be in 5 years.

Sometimes people overrate youth. And like someone already pointed out - Siakam has had way less basketball experience overall.

General managers overrate youth, but that because they are looking to have a player in his prime for longer. This isn't just an age thing, it's also a money thing. For example, both Anthony Davis and Draymond Green are going to be FA in 2020. Davis will be 26, and Green will be 29. If both guys are max players, and had the same skills, you would want to pay Davis first.

[Romeiro Celtic]

Tatum is 20 and Siakam is 24.

Siakam started playing basketball at 17.

Tatum's been playing since he was a little kid.

That doesn't change that the room for development for Tatum is 4 years bigger than Siakam

[Romeiro Celtic]

Age difference is definitely a huge factor. Just imagine Tatum in 4 years.

His game has barely changed from last year.
After working with Kobe this past summer, I thought he'd take his game to another level this season but its been a disappointment.

Not his fault, the whole team has been a huge disappointment, coaching hasn't helped either.

[Wigginstime]

Didn't read the entire thread but this is an extremely simple answer (FYI - I'm not a Celtics fan)

Tatum Hype = 2018 NBA playoffs

1. Tatum was the youngest player in the history of the NBA to lead a conference finals team in scoring.

2. Tatum is only one of 4 players in the history of the NBA to average more than 15ppg in the playoffs under the age of 20.

3. The only other player in the history of the NBA who had the level of playoff contributions that Tatum did last year at his age was a 20 year old Magic Johnson who averaged 18.3 ppg on 52% eFG% compared with 19 year old Tatums 18.5 ppgs on 52% eFG%

Tatum has been disappointing this season and hasn't shown any significant growth but you can't down play he had a historic playoff performance for a 19 year old. You can argue Tatum was simply in the right place at the right time; however, what he did in the playoffs as the leading scorer on the Celtics at the age of 19 has never happened in the entire history of the NBA.