Game 64: Los Angeles Clippers (34-29) @ Sacramento Kings (31-30) - 7:00 PM PT

[TheNewEra]

dunno wtf yer talkin' 'bout Willis
perfect rotations

Sham 33 min
Shai 32 min
Bev 31 min
Gallo 30 min
Trezz 30 min
Lou 28 min


overcame meh shooting nights from our top 3 scorers
won it purely on effort
outrebounded them 58-46 and that was the name of that tune

you wanna dog Trezz for Zubac that's your business

Zubac had a good game
but no way I pull Trezz
he's our soul

That stubborn attitude is what limits the team as a whole. It’s been a issue all season and I love Trez but the better player and matchup should be finishing the games if it’s really about winning. Something is going on either Doc is oblivious to the match up issues the past two games and games like these or Harrell is pulling the strings to not come out. Either way it shouldn’t be happening.


To play your game Zubac was a +15 to Harrell’s -10. Beyond that stat anyone who watched the game could see Zubac was the better option these past two games to close and Harrell was struggling during the kings run and all game.

At least the numbers back you up tonight. But I saw the last two games too, and we had the lead in both and nursed it home for the win. I'm sticking with Trezz, who as Clemenza notes on the other thread, has earned the right to close games.

I don't experiment with Zubac in the middle of a playoff chase with a 5-7 point lead. 2-3 bad possessions and you've just thrown it all away. This league is too good to go screwing around. If you noticed, only one of the rookies was out there at crunchtime--Shamet vs the Mavs, and Shai vs the Kings tonight.

Our closers are Lou-Trezz-Gallo-Bev plus whoever's playing the best among the others. You call it stubbornness, I call it continuity and solidity.

He’s earned the right to close games if he’s playing well. If he looks shaken or disengaged like these two games he shouldn’t be on the floor to finish. If guys like SGA, Beverly, Gallonari, and even Williams can sit and rest to see what other guys can bring Harrell should not be immune from it.

Experimenting? It’s an adjustment to Harrell playing poorly which any sports team would do to try and win. Superstars don’t even play whole quarters let alone a whole quarter and a half while being attacked for being undersized. No one cares if they are rookies or not if you want to win put the best options on the floor to win for said playoff push.


Lmao I love your closers logic when Shamet came in for Lou and Gallonari and Beverly came in half way through the 4th. Lou going out and in until the 3:51 mark of this game but it makes sense for Doc Rivers to play Harrell for a quarter and a half uninterrupted? Lol I’m done got the point across Doc is clearly one of the limitations of this team.

[mkwest]

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[esqtvd]

Your argument is not unreasonable, based on the decent game that Zubac was having, but was he the right man for the job? Zubac is still green, and he'll always be lumbering. The Kings have the fastest pace in the league.

From 6:54 to 5:05 in the 4th, we went from a 13-point lead to 5. This is how quickly things can turn in the NBA. That's the key point. You don't screw around with "experiments."

I like Zubac but he's still working into the defensive scheme and he's still relatively inexperienced. I don't bet the game on him. Yet.

So do I bring in the unproven Zubac and risk it all? No, I stick with Trezz, we find our feet, and we nurse the 5-point lead the rest of the way and get the W.

[esqtvd]

ah ye of little faith

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[Galloisdaman]

Huge road win! I have to give props to these guys and the coaches. If people told you this would be the lineup in September would anyone think they would be in the 7th seed in March? A big thing yesterday was the rebounding. Nice to see so many guys help out on the boards. I still would like to see a different starting lineup if they make the playoffs but props to the guys last night for stepping up. 3 games up on Sac. 4 games up on Lebron.

[mkwest]

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Individual Highlights

Danilo Gallinari

Spoiler:

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Landry Shamet

Spoiler:

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[mkwest]

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[Clemenza]

That stubborn attitude is what limits the team as a whole. It’s been a issue all season and I love Trez but the better player and matchup should be finishing the games if it’s really about winning. Something is going on either Doc is oblivious to the match up issues the past two games and games like these or Harrell is pulling the strings to not come out. Either way it shouldn’t be happening.


To play your game Zubac was a +15 to Harrell’s -10. Beyond that stat anyone who watched the game could see Zubac was the better option these past two games to close and Harrell was struggling during the kings run and all game.

At least the numbers back you up tonight. But I saw the last two games too, and we had the lead in both and nursed it home for the win. I'm sticking with Trezz, who as Clemenza notes on the other thread, has earned the right to close games.

I don't experiment with Zubac in the middle of a playoff chase with a 5-7 point lead. 2-3 bad possessions and you've just thrown it all away. This league is too good to go screwing around. If you noticed, only one of the rookies was out there at crunchtime--Shamet vs the Mavs, and Shai vs the Kings tonight.

Our closers are Lou-Trezz-Gallo-Bev plus whoever's playing the best among the others. You call it stubbornness, I call it continuity and solidity.

He’s earned the right to close games if he’s playing well. If he looks shaken or disengaged like these two games he shouldn’t be on the floor to finish. If guys like SGA, Beverly, Gallonari, and even Williams can sit and rest to see what other guys can bring Harrell should not be immune from it.

Experimenting? It’s an adjustment to Harrell playing poorly which any sports team would do to try and win. Superstars don’t even play whole quarters let alone a whole quarter and a half while being attacked for being undersized. No one cares if they are rookies or not if you want to win put the best options on the floor to win for said playoff push.


Lmao I love your closers logic when Shamet came in for Lou and Gallonari and Beverly came in half way through the 4th. Lou going out and in until the 3:51 mark of this game but it makes sense for Doc Rivers to play Harrell for a quarter and a half uninterrupted? Lol I’m done got the point across Doc is clearly one of the limitations of this team.

I agree.. I do think Trez has earned the right to end games but there's a couple of teams where he needs help or a breather- and its going against combos like Gobert/Favors and maybe Jokic/Plumlee.. two teams that are ahead of us in the standings and they wear and tire Trez out which leads to us not rebounding. Trez is high energy but that gets sapped quick against extra tall-all star centers. But it can work out like it did last night when SGA and Shamgod are knocking down jumpers. Well just have to see how it plays out going forward. But definitely there's going to be times like against the Jazz, Nuggets, and so forth where Doc is going to have to trust Zubac more Motley more and go big.. You can't have Trez playing one against three in the paint like he was doing against Gobert, Favors, and even Ingles who's like 6'9". Especially when Zubac is playing well, scoring, rim protecting, and helping us get leads when he's on the floor.

[esqtvd]

At least the numbers back you up tonight. But I saw the last two games too, and we had the lead in both and nursed it home for the win. I'm sticking with Trezz, who as Clemenza notes on the other thread, has earned the right to close games.

I don't experiment with Zubac in the middle of a playoff chase with a 5-7 point lead. 2-3 bad possessions and you've just thrown it all away. This league is too good to go screwing around. If you noticed, only one of the rookies was out there at crunchtime--Shamet vs the Mavs, and Shai vs the Kings tonight.

Our closers are Lou-Trezz-Gallo-Bev plus whoever's playing the best among the others. You call it stubbornness, I call it continuity and solidity.

He’s earned the right to close games if he’s playing well. If he looks shaken or disengaged like these two games he shouldn’t be on the floor to finish. If guys like SGA, Beverly, Gallonari, and even Williams can sit and rest to see what other guys can bring Harrell should not be immune from it.

Experimenting? It’s an adjustment to Harrell playing poorly which any sports team would do to try and win. Superstars don’t even play whole quarters let alone a whole quarter and a half while being attacked for being undersized. No one cares if they are rookies or not if you want to win put the best options on the floor to win for said playoff push.


Lmao I love your closers logic when Shamet came in for Lou and Gallonari and Beverly came in half way through the 4th. Lou going out and in until the 3:51 mark of this game but it makes sense for Doc Rivers to play Harrell for a quarter and a half uninterrupted? Lol I’m done got the point across Doc is clearly one of the limitations of this team.

I agree.. I do think Trez has earned the right to end games but there's a couple of teams where he needs help or a breather- and its going against combos like Gobert/Favors and maybe Jokic/Plumlee.. two teams that are ahead of us in the standings and they wear and tire Trez out which leads to us not rebounding. Trez is high energy but that gets sapped quick against extra tall-all star centers. But it can work out like it did last night when SGA and Shamgod are knocking down jumpers. Well just have to see how it plays out going forward. But definitely there's going to be times like against the Jazz, Nuggets, and so forth where Doc is going to have to trust Zubac more Motley more and go big.. You can't have Trez playing one against three in the paint like he was doing against Gobert, Favors, and even Ingles who's like 6'9". Especially when Zubac is playing well, scoring, rim protecting, and helping us get leads when he's on the floor.

Against the Kings, we were cruising with a double-digit lead when the Kings made a run to get within 5 with 5:00 left. What do you do? Trezz had only played 25 minutes to that point. Do you push the panic button and put in Zubac, who has only played sporadically in his 120-game career and has been in the Clipper system for only a couple weeks?

https://247sports.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/Article/Ivica-Zubac-has-been-up-and-down-for-the-Clippers-so-far-129591675/

His major defect defensively is the same as it has always been, though. There are still too many plays like this, desperation fouls that put cherries on top of possessions he's already lost.

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Yeesh. The ONE THING you don't want to do when you have a lead is turn 2-point baskets into 3-point plays.

Five fouls per 36 minutes aren't apocalyptic, but they put a typically artificial but occasionally literal cap on how many minutes he can play. The Lakers once had to pull him from a game after four minutes and 40 seconds because, in that time, he had already managed to accumulate five fouls.

As previously noted, a game can turn in one or two bad minutes, one or two possessions. This is the quandry Doc faced in the Kings game. We still have a 5-point lead. Two possessions. Do you want to bet it on Zubac, who's been a Clipper for 7 whole games?

Fouls are always bad. Risking fouling out in less than half of a quarter is worse. And if Zubac is ever going to be a major part of a great defense, that is where he is going to have to improve.

And if he keeps struggling this much offensively, that's going to be his only path to a long NBA career. Zubac has fallen off of a cliff as a scorer with the Clippers, making only 47 percent of his field goals as he adjusts to life in a new system. It's more small sample size theater, but his touch around the basket has looked off and some of the choices he's made have been downright weird.

Decision-making usually takes a few weeks to normalize when a player joins a new team. They'll often feel the need to mark their territory early on to establish a role within their new team's framework. But there's never a good reason to attempt an early-possession hook shot with Rudy Gobert in your face, and Zubac is making a choice or two like that per game with the Clippers.

[TheNewEra]

Your argument is not unreasonable, based on the decent game that Zubac was having, but was he the right man for the job? Zubac is still green, and he'll always be lumbering. The Kings have the fastest pace in the league.

From 6:54 to 5:05 in the 4th, we went from a 13-point lead to 5. This is how quickly things can turn in the NBA. That's the key point. You don't screw around with "experiments."

I like Zubac but he's still working into the defensive scheme and he's still relatively inexperienced. I don't bet the game on him. Yet.

So do I bring in the unproven Zubac and risk it all? No, I stick with Trezz, we find our feet, and we nurse the 5-point lead the rest of the way and get the W.

When you consider Harrell has looked disinterested and flustered these past two games Zubac has been a clear better option. We already know Harrell can struggle with longer and taller energy bigs and skill position ones. He got some numbers up with the extended playing time and the team feeding him but these last two games he’s been lacking energy.

Wouldn’t consider Zubac a lumbering player at all he can run the floor well and did a good job keeping up with WCS. He struggled a bit against Giles but he never backed down and his touch in the post is top notch. Zubac for however green he is has already shown to be our best option for rim protection on ball and help and a solid post player

[TheNewEra]

He’s earned the right to close games if he’s playing well. If he looks shaken or disengaged like these two games he shouldn’t be on the floor to finish. If guys like SGA, Beverly, Gallonari, and even Williams can sit and rest to see what other guys can bring Harrell should not be immune from it.

Experimenting? It’s an adjustment to Harrell playing poorly which any sports team would do to try and win. Superstars don’t even play whole quarters let alone a whole quarter and a half while being attacked for being undersized. No one cares if they are rookies or not if you want to win put the best options on the floor to win for said playoff push.


Lmao I love your closers logic when Shamet came in for Lou and Gallonari and Beverly came in half way through the 4th. Lou going out and in until the 3:51 mark of this game but it makes sense for Doc Rivers to play Harrell for a quarter and a half uninterrupted? Lol I’m done got the point across Doc is clearly one of the limitations of this team.

I agree.. I do think Trez has earned the right to end games but there's a couple of teams where he needs help or a breather- and its going against combos like Gobert/Favors and maybe Jokic/Plumlee.. two teams that are ahead of us in the standings and they wear and tire Trez out which leads to us not rebounding. Trez is high energy but that gets sapped quick against extra tall-all star centers. But it can work out like it did last night when SGA and Shamgod are knocking down jumpers. Well just have to see how it plays out going forward. But definitely there's going to be times like against the Jazz, Nuggets, and so forth where Doc is going to have to trust Zubac more Motley more and go big.. You can't have Trez playing one against three in the paint like he was doing against Gobert, Favors, and even Ingles who's like 6'9". Especially when Zubac is playing well, scoring, rim protecting, and helping us get leads when he's on the floor.

Against the Kings, we were cruising with a double-digit lead when the Kings made a run to get within 5 with 5:00 left. What do you do? Trezz had only played 25 minutes to that point. Do you push the panic button and put in Zubac, who has only played sporadically in his 120-game career and has been in the Clipper system for only a couple weeks?

https://247sports.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/Article/Ivica-Zubac-has-been-up-and-down-for-the-Clippers-so-far-129591675/

His major defect defensively is the same as it has always been, though. There are still too many plays like this, desperation fouls that put cherries on top of possessions he's already lost.

Read on Twitter

Yeesh. The ONE THING you don't want to do when you have a lead is turn 2-point baskets into 3-point plays.

Five fouls per 36 minutes aren't apocalyptic, but they put a typically artificial but occasionally literal cap on how many minutes he can play. The Lakers once had to pull him from a game after four minutes and 40 seconds because, in that time, he had already managed to accumulate five fouls.

As previously noted, a game can turn in one or two bad minutes, one or two possessions. This is the quandry Doc faced in the Kings game. We still have a 5-point lead. Two possessions. Do you want to bet it on Zubac, who's been a Clipper for 7 whole games?

Fouls are always bad. Risking fouling out in less than half of a quarter is worse. And if Zubac is ever going to be a major part of a great defense, that is where he is going to have to improve.

And if he keeps struggling this much offensively, that's going to be his only path to a long NBA career. Zubac has fallen off of a cliff as a scorer with the Clippers, making only 47 percent of his field goals as he adjusts to life in a new system. It's more small sample size theater, but his touch around the basket has looked off and some of the choices he's made have been downright weird.

Decision-making usually takes a few weeks to normalize when a player joins a new team. They'll often feel the need to mark their territory early on to establish a role within their new team's framework. But there's never a good reason to attempt an early-possession hook shot with Rudy Gobert in your face, and Zubac is making a choice or two like that per game with the Clippers.

None of this goes with the stats that have been shown. Zubac has been amazing addition and is playing overall like one of the better bigs. He also took the early hook shot because he made it earlier against Gobert 5:04 in the first.

[esqtvd]

None of this goes with the stats that have been shown. Zubac has been amazing addition and is playing overall like one of the better bigs.

It's ok if you don't want to respond to anything in the quoted article. But I also think people--especially Doc critics/haters--see only flaws in their targets [now Trezz is the whipping boy at the moment] and have rose-colored glasses when it comes to the 2nd-stringers they think should be playing instead.

The question is not whether Trezz struggles with much bigger guys. The question is whether Zubac is the better man for the job, especially in the scenario being discussed. I'm hopeful about Zubac but he's been far from knocking me out. I'm not alone.

This is the shot in question. "Downright weird."

https://247sports.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/Article/Ivica-Zubac-has-been-up-and-down-for-the-Clippers-so-far-129591675/

Zubac has fallen off of a cliff as a scorer with the Clippers, making only 47 percent of his field goals as he adjusts to life in a new system. It's more small sample size theater, but his touch around the basket has looked off and some of the choices he's made have been downright weird.

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Zubac had good stats for the last 2 games. Doc is not ready to hand him the keys in crunchtime and I quite agree. But maybe someday, maybe even someday soon. But it's going to take more than 2 games. If we were losing, I might be more willing to gamble.

[Clemenza]

He’s earned the right to close games if he’s playing well. If he looks shaken or disengaged like these two games he shouldn’t be on the floor to finish. If guys like SGA, Beverly, Gallonari, and even Williams can sit and rest to see what other guys can bring Harrell should not be immune from it.

Experimenting? It’s an adjustment to Harrell playing poorly which any sports team would do to try and win. Superstars don’t even play whole quarters let alone a whole quarter and a half while being attacked for being undersized. No one cares if they are rookies or not if you want to win put the best options on the floor to win for said playoff push.


Lmao I love your closers logic when Shamet came in for Lou and Gallonari and Beverly came in half way through the 4th. Lou going out and in until the 3:51 mark of this game but it makes sense for Doc Rivers to play Harrell for a quarter and a half uninterrupted? Lol I’m done got the point across Doc is clearly one of the limitations of this team.

I agree.. I do think Trez has earned the right to end games but there's a couple of teams where he needs help or a breather- and its going against combos like Gobert/Favors and maybe Jokic/Plumlee.. two teams that are ahead of us in the standings and they wear and tire Trez out which leads to us not rebounding. Trez is high energy but that gets sapped quick against extra tall-all star centers. But it can work out like it did last night when SGA and Shamgod are knocking down jumpers. Well just have to see how it plays out going forward. But definitely there's going to be times like against the Jazz, Nuggets, and so forth where Doc is going to have to trust Zubac more Motley more and go big.. You can't have Trez playing one against three in the paint like he was doing against Gobert, Favors, and even Ingles who's like 6'9". Especially when Zubac is playing well, scoring, rim protecting, and helping us get leads when he's on the floor.

Against the Kings, we were cruising with a double-digit lead when the Kings made a run to get within 5 with 5:00 left. What do you do? Trezz had only played 25 minutes to that point. Do you push the panic button and put in Zubac, who has only played sporadically in his 120-game career and has been in the Clipper system for only a couple weeks?

https://247sports.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/Article/Ivica-Zubac-has-been-up-and-down-for-the-Clippers-so-far-129591675/

His major defect defensively is the same as it has always been, though. There are still too many plays like this, desperation fouls that put cherries on top of possessions he's already lost.

Read on Twitter

Yeesh. The ONE THING you don't want to do when you have a lead is turn 2-point baskets into 3-point plays.

Five fouls per 36 minutes aren't apocalyptic, but they put a typically artificial but occasionally literal cap on how many minutes he can play. The Lakers once had to pull him from a game after four minutes and 40 seconds because, in that time, he had already managed to accumulate five fouls.

As previously noted, a game can turn in one or two bad minutes, one or two possessions. This is the quandry Doc faced in the Kings game. We still have a 5-point lead. Two possessions. Do you want to bet it on Zubac, who's been a Clipper for 7 whole games?

Fouls are always bad. Risking fouling out in less than half of a quarter is worse. And if Zubac is ever going to be a major part of a great defense, that is where he is going to have to improve.

And if he keeps struggling this much offensively, that's going to be his only path to a long NBA career. Zubac has fallen off of a cliff as a scorer with the Clippers, making only 47 percent of his field goals as he adjusts to life in a new system. It's more small sample size theater, but his touch around the basket has looked off and some of the choices he's made have been downright weird.

Decision-making usually takes a few weeks to normalize when a player joins a new team. They'll often feel the need to mark their territory early on to establish a role within their new team's framework. But there's never a good reason to attempt an early-possession hook shot with Rudy Gobert in your face, and Zubac is making a choice or two like that per game with the Clippers.

You can't twist the entire narrative by showing Zubac committing a foul on Gobert which is going to happen anyways from a younger player going up against an all star caliber player during a game. Nobody saying Zubac is the next coming of Olajuwon or Shaq and we can knit pick every player on the team possession by possession with a youtube clip attached to support any narrative were trying to convey whether good or bad. We're just trying to match height, get rebounds, and get breathers for the finishers in games where the Lou/Trez Show is on shutdown status in the forth quarter.

[esqtvd]

You can't twist the entire narrative by showing Zubac committing a foul on Gobert which is going to happen anyways from a younger player going up against an all star caliber player during a game. Nobody saying Zubac is the next coming of Olajuwon or Shaq and we can knit pick every player on the team possession by possession with a youtube clip attached to support any narrative were trying to convey whether good or bad. We're just trying to match height, get rebounds, and get breathers for the finishers in games where the Lou/Trez Show is on shutdown status in the forth quarter.

Not twisting anything, brother. Agree in principle. But Zubac fouls like crazy and is shooting under 50% as a Clipper, which is crap for a low-post-only big. He IS improving but I'm still afraid to give him any 4th quarter minutes especially when we have the lead.

Zubac committing a foul on Gobert which is going to happen anyways from a younger player going up against an all star caliber player during a game

That's exactly the point.

I agree about getting Trezz a breather. But a game can swing 5-7 points in the minute you take him out. Doc chose not to bet on Zubac vs Gobert. And Trezz only played 27 minutes vs. The Jazz. I'd feel you better if it was 37.

If you examine the rest of the game record, we lost the Utah game because Gallo and Lou shot horribly. Lou even missed 4 straight FTs, which is theoretically impossible, yet it happened.

The Clips were not down about this one. Missed a LOT of shots, on the Jazz home court, and still almost stole one.