Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working

[WeekapaugGroove]

I do think Jackson would have been a better player 20 years ago. Teams these days are much better at picking on non shooting wings and basically not guarding them and mucking up an o.

It's possible he would have looked better on a better team where if he messed up he would get benched. Maybe he forces himself to play more under control. But then again the best he's played these past two years has been when booker has been out he's Josh has actually been asked to do more. So who knows.

The real mystery to me is why he's such a horrible finisher around the rim. I was not expecting that with him.
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[Son of Ra]

Spoiler:

That's one I'd really like to find out somethime. Who shat on my favourite sports team for the next 15 years in advance with that stupid decision? Drafting a p*ssy instead a killer, becouse of fit. Bowie part 2, just worse.
Imagine getting Doncic and paying Nurkic instead of Ariza, then trading for a decent PG with all our draftpicks... We'd be second round material THIS year

Thank you. I made the Bowie comparison a few weeks back and got what on for it.

Bowie the player was actually a GD stud...and no wuss. Bowie the draft pick was a disaster due to injury and of course the emergence of the GOAT. There is a real good docu on him (i think 30-4-30)

Ayton is not a bust, lets be clear. Hes going to get better, as he has already showed some improvement. He has mad potential offensively. This season is a rocky honeymoon for him. He's learning what not to do, what not to say. He' is still a GD kid. Lets not forget that. We cant rewind the clock. Yeah, Luka looks like a special player, but so does Young. That was a good draft as there are 5-6 guys that are going to be around contributing for a while.

Im just not going to b**** about it anymore. I'll spank She-Andre when I see her, but Im done with the wouldashouldacoulda routine and I advise that for all you sourpusses. The rebuild is over, and the remodeling begins. We still have some good GD youngsters as a foundation. This will be an important off season and it can turn out well. Yeah, I know, we cant get the last 5 yrs back.

Furthermore, the more I think on it, the more I get comfortable with Morant. If he grades out, he will be a welcomed addition IMO. Dude has killer in him, is fast as F, with big hops AND a handle... plus his shot isnt broken. A combo of him and Johnson will be just fine IMO. Id then throw some chunky change to Randall or Mirotic. then fill in the gaps. Im on the fence as to what to do with Oubrick and Jackstone, but they do bring attitude, swag and dont dog it. If we become more of a transition team, they will excel.

We'll know more come lotto day and all we need is one more dose of good GD luck. ****, we deserve it. If we dont get 1 or 2... then its move on to a different strategy. But there is no need to check your shoelaces in at the counter.

That is actually why I compared him to Bowie and not Bennet or others real busts. Bowie was a good player had a fine career despite his injuries. Ayton is not a bust, I agree. He's just a wasted pick and relative to what we could have had the wrong pick at number 1.
And it was easily foreseeable. He's struggling and hampered by exactly the things the almost 50% that didn't want him had pointed out pre-draft. It was easy to predict. I've never read such broad consensus, specific concerns about any other prospects in all my years on this forum. And if just ordinary fans can see it you'd think a pro, a GM would be able to.
Sucks that, to say it your style, McDreadful was still in power for this pick.

[phnart]

Serious question: Is there any hope for this team? I'm having a harder and harder time finding positives. I'm getting to the point where the only player I even sort of like is Mikal Bridges. I want to root for Ayton, but he just doesn't seem to care about 65% of the time, which sucks. Booker is a great shooter, but little else. I feel like I keep posting the same thing, but I'm getting to the point where it's very hard to root for them and that bums me out. I've only been a Suns fan for the last 49 years. I did root for the Warriors a little bit in the early 90s after living in the bay area for awhile, but that dried up quickly after moving back to Phoenix. Fed up...bummed...disillusioned...and the worst part is I don't think the owner gives a crap if long time fans like me aren't going to support his team anymore.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[alamin330]

I do think Jackson would have been a better player 20 years ago. Teams these days are much better at picking on non shooting wings and basically not guarding them and mucking up an o.

It's possible he would have looked better on a better team where if he messed up he would get benched. Maybe he forces himself to play more under control. But then again the best he's played these past two years has been when booker has been out he's Josh has actually been asked to do more. So who knows.

The real mystery to me is why he's such a horrible finisher around the rim. I was not expecting that with him.
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He’s not strong enough. He should work on his core strengthening this offseason which will help him finish. If he gets bumped in the air he has a hard time keeping balance and it affects the layup or dunk. He will be basically money at the rim in 2-3 years when his strength is there

[handsome salary]

63 games in and now officially once again missing the playoffs. Very bottom of the entire league. On pace for very worst season in franchise history. So **** tired of hearing excuse after excuse after excuse after each loss and how lessons are learned for next game.

It's extremely hard to give any **** about any player or coach on this team. They all look like total losers with many years of bottom dwelling ahead.
Congratulations on pissing on any flame of hope, Suns front office.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I do think Jackson would have been a better player 20 years ago. Teams these days are much better at picking on non shooting wings and basically not guarding them and mucking up an o.

It's possible he would have looked better on a better team where if he messed up he would get benched. Maybe he forces himself to play more under control. But then again the best he's played these past two years has been when booker has been out he's Josh has actually been asked to do more. So who knows.

The real mystery to me is why he's such a horrible finisher around the rim. I was not expecting that with him.
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He’s not strong enough. He should work on his core strengthening this offseason which will help him finish. If he gets bumped in the air he has a hard time keeping balance and it affects the layup or dunk. He will be basically money at the rim in 2-3 years when his strength is there

Yeah I think that does come into play and hurts him on the defensive end too. I also don't think his touch is very good and that impacts his shooting on all levels.

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[alamin330]

I do think Jackson would have been a better player 20 years ago. Teams these days are much better at picking on non shooting wings and basically not guarding them and mucking up an o.

It's possible he would have looked better on a better team where if he messed up he would get benched. Maybe he forces himself to play more under control. But then again the best he's played these past two years has been when booker has been out he's Josh has actually been asked to do more. So who knows.

The real mystery to me is why he's such a horrible finisher around the rim. I was not expecting that with him.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

He’s not strong enough. He should work on his core strengthening this offseason which will help him finish. If he gets bumped in the air he has a hard time keeping balance and it affects the layup or dunk. He will be basically money at the rim in 2-3 years when his strength is there

Yeah I think that does come into play and hurts him on the defensive end too. I also don't think his touch is very good and that impacts his shooting on all levels.

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Oh his touch is terrible. But that’s where a vet would help him improve. Teach him how to make his shot go in at different angles how to get your shot off when you get bumped or over shot blockers and how to draw fouls. He’s currently not learning any of this from anyone

[WeekapaugGroove]

He’s not strong enough. He should work on his core strengthening this offseason which will help him finish. If he gets bumped in the air he has a hard time keeping balance and it affects the layup or dunk. He will be basically money at the rim in 2-3 years when his strength is there

Yeah I think that does come into play and hurts him on the defensive end too. I also don't think his touch is very good and that impacts his shooting on all levels.

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Oh his touch is terrible. But that’s where a vet would help him improve. Teach him how to make his shot go in at different angles how to get your shot off when you get bumped or over shot blockers and how to draw fouls. He’s currently not learning any of this from anyone

See I'm not sure touch is something that you can significantly improve. It might be like accuracy with QBs where you can make minor improvement by improving mechanics but a large part is innate ability that you either have or not. Look at a guy like TJ his touch around the paint and at the line has always been great and I think that helped him when he extended his range this year.

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[Saberestar]

He’s not strong enough. He should work on his core strengthening this offseason which will help him finish. If he gets bumped in the air he has a hard time keeping balance and it affects the layup or dunk. He will be basically money at the rim in 2-3 years when his strength is there

Yeah I think that does come into play and hurts him on the defensive end too. I also don't think his touch is very good and that impacts his shooting on all levels.

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Oh his touch is terrible. But that’s where a vet would help him improve. Teach him how to make his shot go in at different angles how to get your shot off when you get bumped or over shot blockers and how to draw fouls. He’s currently not learning any of this from anyone

I do not think his bad touch or his bad overall play it is because there are not good veterans on this team.

Some people say that young players just need time and experience to get better...OK... and what about all these guys from the last few seasons??

Kendall Marshall
Archie Goodwin
Alex Len
Tyler Ennis
Marquese Chriss
Dragan Bender

All those players WERE bad and ARE bad.

The same can be said (or not hopefully) about Josh Jackson. Some players do not progress and are the same all their career.

Right now it looks like he is not good enough to play a big role on any team. He is pretty close to be on that list IMO.

[alamin330]

Yeah I think that does come into play and hurts him on the defensive end too. I also don't think his touch is very good and that impacts his shooting on all levels.

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Oh his touch is terrible. But that’s where a vet would help him improve. Teach him how to make his shot go in at different angles how to get your shot off when you get bumped or over shot blockers and how to draw fouls. He’s currently not learning any of this from anyone

See I'm not sure touch is something that you can significantly improve. It might be like accuracy with QBs where you can make minor improvement by improving mechanics but a large part is innate ability that you either have or not. Look at a guy like TJ his touch around the paint and at the line has always been great and I think that helped him when he extended his range this year.

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I disagree. I think vets would teach him how to slow down and not go full speed for every shot in the paint. Teach him how to spin the ball and at what angles off the glass. Also teach him how much arch he should use for floaters. I think he is having to learn this all on his own by trial and error as opposed to being taught the better way by Vets

[alamin330]

Yeah I think that does come into play and hurts him on the defensive end too. I also don't think his touch is very good and that impacts his shooting on all levels.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Oh his touch is terrible. But that’s where a vet would help him improve. Teach him how to make his shot go in at different angles how to get your shot off when you get bumped or over shot blockers and how to draw fouls. He’s currently not learning any of this from anyone

I do not think his bad touch or his bad overall play it is because there are not good veterans on this team.

Some people say that young players just need time and experience to get better...OK... and what about all these guys from the last few seasons??

Kendall Marshall
Archie Goodwin
Alex Len
Tyler Ennis
Marquese Chriss
Dragan Bender

All those players WERE bad and ARE bad.

The same can be said (or not hopefully) about Josh Jackson. Some players do not progress and are the same all their career.

Right now it looks like he is not good enough to play a big role on any team. He is pretty close to be on that list IMO.

What terrible comparisons. Jury is still out on Chriss and bender too.

[Ghost of Kleine]

And let me just put this out there.....im telling you straight up that Doncic was McD's man. I dont care what was said, McD was putting it all on himself and taking whatever heat there was away from Sarver like a good employee would. Fact is Sarvers ties to UofA are huge and Ayton would be a big money maker. Im telling you, the reason you saw both Sarver and James Jones at 2 of Doncic's games is because McD told him he has to go and see the kid play live and in person. McD had his mind made up already, but we all know he didnt have the final say as GM and had to convince Sarver and Jones that Doncic was the right pick, hence why they were there (Luka didnt preform that well the 1st game they watched). I truly believe that Doncic and Igor was McD's plan, but Doncic got overruled by Sarver/Jones. Sure McD SAID that Ayton was his choice, but once again it was McD playing the role to try to keep his Boss blame free in whatever situation should arise.

Kerrsed is absolutely right!!!.......

This is what I've been saying too. Sarver has ultimate and final say over everything, and wouldn't have really been willing to relinquish control to anyone, even, Mcd.

Ayton was always Sarvers' first choice! Don't discount the Uof A boosters/ alumni connection and the Arizona hometown draw....Sarvers' a business man with a business mindset.

The Arizona times, And alumni connections were the deciding factor in the end. And when McD disagreed,

He and Sarver had a falling out, as Sarver being true to his nature after Mcd had the perfect coach for his choice in Doncic locked down in Kokoskov, But Sarver meddles yet again and overruled McD and made the call for Ayton.

Now I hope that Ayton figures it all out and becomes great, But the determining factor in this overall franchise's fall from grace leads directly back to Sarver and his need to exert control over all of his employees.


Ayton was his (Sarvers' ) choice, and when things didn't go to Sarvers' plans.......He and Mcd were seen arguing. Later Mcd gets fired and becomes Sarvers' scapegoat.

But that's usually what a g.m. is anyways, once things don't go good for a franchise.

[Crives]

Yeah I think that does come into play and hurts him on the defensive end too. I also don't think his touch is very good and that impacts his shooting on all levels.

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Oh his touch is terrible. But that’s where a vet would help him improve. Teach him how to make his shot go in at different angles how to get your shot off when you get bumped or over shot blockers and how to draw fouls. He’s currently not learning any of this from anyone

See I'm not sure touch is something that you can significantly improve. It might be like accuracy with QBs where you can make minor improvement by improving mechanics but a large part is innate ability that you either have or not. Look at a guy like TJ his touch around the paint and at the line has always been great and I think that helped him when he extended his range this year.

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Time for Josh to give up on the layups and try to dunk everything!
.... a lot of his misses are point blank, not the crazy circus shots TJ takes to the bank driving to the basket. He should definitely be able to improve this subset of his shots as he gets stronger, and that could be a 10%+ bump to his fg% as he is able to get so many high % shots at the rim with his athleticism.

[bwgood77]

And let me just put this out there.....im telling you straight up that Doncic was McD's man. I dont care what was said, McD was putting it all on himself and taking whatever heat there was away from Sarver like a good employee would. Fact is Sarvers ties to UofA are huge and Ayton would be a big money maker. Im telling you, the reason you saw both Sarver and James Jones at 2 of Doncic's games is because McD told him he has to go and see the kid play live and in person. McD had his mind made up already, but we all know he didnt have the final say as GM and had to convince Sarver and Jones that Doncic was the right pick, hence why they were there (Luka didnt preform that well the 1st game they watched). I truly believe that Doncic and Igor was McD's plan, but Doncic got overruled by Sarver/Jones. Sure McD SAID that Ayton was his choice, but once again it was McD playing the role to try to keep his Boss blame free in whatever situation should arise.

Weird take considering the little weasle mcd was so fond of blaming failures on others and leaking info. I think we'd have heard by now.

Also he used his 1st lotto pick on a C and his biggest UFA signing was a C. Dude liked centers.

Plus after Aytons workout mcd looked like he was about to spring a Woody with excitement.

My guess is the whole organizational wanted Ayton. He looks like a freak in workouts I get the appeal and think plenty of teams would have made the same decision. I"m sure Sarver had final say on this pick simply because there isn't an owner in the league that wouldn't have final say on a move as big as the #1 pick in the draft.

Heck kerrsed weren't you a doncic guy for a second but then went all in Ayton after they win the lottery? It was easy to get caught in the hype.


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Yeah, no chance McD was a Doncic guy. Not sure where this comes from other than Kerrsed being big McD supporter. McD was interviewed multiple times pre draft even before lottery and said they were looking at bigs.....focused on centers, etc. He looked relieved/stoked when we won the lottery.

I don't even think he takes Doncic 2nd if someone else went first. I think he probably takes Bagley. I mean to me it couldn't have been more obvious that McD wanted Ayton, even before the workout.

Plus, if McD really wanted Doncic he and/or some of his people would have surely leaked that out by now through Woj or Gambo or whoever that he wanted Doncic but Sarver insisted on Ayton, just like all the other leaks he's done.

[RaisingArizona]

Oh his touch is terrible. But that’s where a vet would help him improve. Teach him how to make his shot go in at different angles how to get your shot off when you get bumped or over shot blockers and how to draw fouls. He’s currently not learning any of this from anyone

I do not think his bad touch or his bad overall play it is because there are not good veterans on this team.

Some people say that young players just need time and experience to get better...OK... and what about all these guys from the last few seasons??

Kendall Marshall
Archie Goodwin
Alex Len
Tyler Ennis
Marquese Chriss
Dragan Bender

All those players WERE bad and ARE bad.

The same can be said (or not hopefully) about Josh Jackson. Some players do not progress and are the same all their career.

Right now it looks like he is not good enough to play a big role on any team. He is pretty close to be on that list IMO.

What terrible comparisons. Jury is still out on Chriss and bender too.

Both got their rookie extensions declined as a lotto pick. That's a pretty epic fail on their part. Nobody here wanted them to suck but that's the reality of the situation.

[alamin330]

I do not think his bad touch or his bad overall play it is because there are not good veterans on this team.

Some people say that young players just need time and experience to get better...OK... and what about all these guys from the last few seasons??

Kendall Marshall
Archie Goodwin
Alex Len
Tyler Ennis
Marquese Chriss
Dragan Bender

All those players WERE bad and ARE bad.

The same can be said (or not hopefully) about Josh Jackson. Some players do not progress and are the same all their career.

Right now it looks like he is not good enough to play a big role on any team. He is pretty close to be on that list IMO.

What terrible comparisons. Jury is still out on Chriss and bender too.

Both got their rookie extensions declined as a lotto pick. That's a pretty epic fail on their part. Nobody here wanted them to suck but that's the reality of the situation.

That has more to do with the pay increases that they’ll get as 4 and 8 pick more than them being busts. They will still be in the league next year on a much cheaper contract than what was on the rookie scale.

[bwgood77]

I found a good comparison for Josh after his first two years if you look at TS%, BPM (offensive and defensive), VORP, etc...even per 36 or 100 possession numbers somewhat similar..

http://bkref.com/tiny/t4ojb

Edit: JJ is quite worse in VORP I guess, but maybe he can catch up there sat some point and get to the level of a replacement player.

[sunskerr]

We need to trade Jackson for a guard if possible. But he’s so bad it’s probably impossible.

[Ghost of Kleine]

And let me just put this out there.....im telling you straight up that Doncic was McD's man. I dont care what was said, McD was putting it all on himself and taking whatever heat there was away from Sarver like a good employee would. Fact is Sarvers ties to UofA are huge and Ayton would be a big money maker. Im telling you, the reason you saw both Sarver and James Jones at 2 of Doncic's games is because McD told him he has to go and see the kid play live and in person. McD had his mind made up already, but we all know he didnt have the final say as GM and had to convince Sarver and Jones that Doncic was the right pick, hence why they were there (Luka didnt preform that well the 1st game they watched). I truly believe that Doncic and Igor was McD's plan, but Doncic got overruled by Sarver/Jones. Sure McD SAID that Ayton was his choice, but once again it was McD playing the role to try to keep his Boss blame free in whatever situation should arise.

Weird take considering the little weasle mcd was so fond of blaming failures on others and leaking info. I think we'd have heard by now.

Also he used his 1st lotto pick on a C and his biggest UFA signing was a C. Dude liked centers.

Plus after Aytons workout mcd looked like he was about to spring a Woody with excitement.

My guess is the whole organizational wanted Ayton. He looks like a freak in workouts I get the appeal and think plenty of teams would have made the same decision. I"m sure Sarver had final say on this pick simply because there isn't an owner in the league that wouldn't have final say on a move as big as the #1 pick in the draft.

Heck kerrsed weren't you a doncic guy for a second but then went all in Ayton after they win the lottery? It was easy to get caught in the hype.


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Yeah, no chance McD was a Doncic guy. Not sure where this comes from other than Kerrsed being big McD supporter. McD was interviewed multiple times pre draft even before lottery and said they were looking at bigs.....focused on centers, etc. He looked relieved/stoked when we won the lottery.

I don't even think he takes Doncic 2nd if someone else went first. I think he probably takes Bagley. I mean to me it couldn't have been more obvious that McD wanted Ayton, even before the workout.

Plus, if McD really wanted Doncic he and/or some of his people would have surely leaked that out by now through Woj or Gambo or whoever that he wanted Doncic but Sarver insisted on Ayton, just like all the other leaks he's done.

I'm sure that the reason it wasn't leaked was because ever since Sarver took ownership control of the team, they have been very tight lipped and cryptic over all transactions.

Also, what else is the g.m. supposed to say when the owner wants the U of A guy?

Is he supposed to come out and challenge the owner and get himself fired right on the spot?.......


He's got to go along with the owner if he wants to keep his job after all. And I'm sure he was relieved by getting the first pick, only in the belief that Sarver would finally get off his back, snd quit meddling and finally start to let him do his job, but that never happened, as Sarvers' ego would never let him relinquish control to any of his personnel.

A good indicator of this being true is in the fact that even now, Jones is just a puppet mouthpiece for Sarver still with no direct title or authority!

Sarver still relishes complete control in all things as evidenced by the team's lousy projectors and still no improvement halfway through the season still.

Also, why else would he have hired a coach in Kokoskov who has direct ties and familiarity with Doncic??

My guess is that McD got overruled in his decisions so much by Sarver going against his vision for the team in Doncic and Kokoskov, along with other possible meddling that he finally couldn't take it anymore, and they had a blow up( as indicated by the photo of their argument, Later, McD gets fired.

In the end, we may never truly know, But if I had to wager, I would put my money on Sarvers' penchant for total authoritarian control over any and all decisions as he has repeatedly shown, and as has been indicated in numerous reports by former as well as current employees.


Now I do like Ayton, and am an Ayton guy, But all reasonable indications point to McD trying to line things up for Doncic with Kokoskov, And then being overruled by "dick"tator Sarver for his U of A guy in Ayton.

[bwgood77]

Weird take considering the little weasle mcd was so fond of blaming failures on others and leaking info. I think we'd have heard by now.

Also he used his 1st lotto pick on a C and his biggest UFA signing was a C. Dude liked centers.

Plus after Aytons workout mcd looked like he was about to spring a Woody with excitement.

My guess is the whole organizational wanted Ayton. He looks like a freak in workouts I get the appeal and think plenty of teams would have made the same decision. I"m sure Sarver had final say on this pick simply because there isn't an owner in the league that wouldn't have final say on a move as big as the #1 pick in the draft.

Heck kerrsed weren't you a doncic guy for a second but then went all in Ayton after they win the lottery? It was easy to get caught in the hype.


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Yeah, no chance McD was a Doncic guy. Not sure where this comes from other than Kerrsed being big McD supporter. McD was interviewed multiple times pre draft even before lottery and said they were looking at bigs.....focused on centers, etc. He looked relieved/stoked when we won the lottery.

I don't even think he takes Doncic 2nd if someone else went first. I think he probably takes Bagley. I mean to me it couldn't have been more obvious that McD wanted Ayton, even before the workout.

Plus, if McD really wanted Doncic he and/or some of his people would have surely leaked that out by now through Woj or Gambo or whoever that he wanted Doncic but Sarver insisted on Ayton, just like all the other leaks he's done.

I'm sure that the reason it wasn't leaked was because ever since Sarver took ownership control of the team, they have been very tight lipped and cryptic over all transactions.

Also, what else is the g.m. supposed to say when the owner wants the U of A guy?

Is he supposed to come out and challenge the owner and get himself fired right on the spot?.......


He's got to go along with the owner if he wants to keep his job after all.

Also, why else would he have hired a coach in Kokoskov who has direct ties and familiarity with Doncic??

My guess is that McD got overruled in his decisions so much by Sarver going against his vision for the team in Doncic and Kokoskov, along with other possible meddling that he finally couldn't take it anymore, and they had a blow up( as indicated by the photo of their argument, Later, McD gets fired.

In the end, we may never truly know, But if I had to wager, I would put my money on Sarvers' penchant for total authoritarian control over any and all decisions as he has repeatedly shown, and as has been indicated in numerous reports by former as well as current employees.


Now I do like Ayton, and am an Ayton guy, But all reasonable indications point to McD trying to line things up for Doncic with Kokoskov, And then being overruled by "dick"tator Sarver for his U of A guy in Ayton.

This just seems like ridiculous speculation. The coaching hire was a decision made by Sarver, Jones and McD. Sarver was a UA guy. Anyone who watched enough UA closely knew Ayton had serious alarming deficiencies....I...McD couldn't stop talking about Cs.

My whole post that made Kerrsed come up with his wild theories was on McD building a team with no playmakers and shooters...over 5 years.

I mean it's a cop out and easy for a GM to say he was overruled on all his decisions by Sarver, and certainly Sarver is too involved, but McD has to take responsibility for all his crappy moves and picks. Every other GM does.

I didn't mean for my post to get into a "who wanted who between Sarver and McD"....just that McD, over 5 years, built a putrid team full of a bunch of non shooters and non playmakers.

I've accepted the Ayton pick. Wouldn't have been my pick but I somewhat understood arguments for it and if somehow he can change his mentality and aggressiveness (probably hard things to change), he can be a monster.

Our only really solid pick over the past 3 drafts has been Bridges, who apparently is really the only one rumored to have been who Sarver wanted and McD didn't.

But thank God we have one guy who is a great defender, solid playmaker and shooter in Bridges. No other player on our team is good or great at all 3 of those things.