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Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working

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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1461 » by DirtyDez » Sat Mar 2, 2019 11:33 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:And let me just put this out there.....im telling you straight up that Doncic was McD's man. I dont care what was said, McD was putting it all on himself and taking whatever heat there was away from Sarver like a good employee would. Fact is Sarvers ties to UofA are huge and Ayton would be a big money maker. Im telling you, the reason you saw both Sarver and James Jones at 2 of Doncic's games is because McD told him he has to go and see the kid play live and in person. McD had his mind made up already, but we all know he didnt have the final say as GM and had to convince Sarver and Jones that Doncic was the right pick, hence why they were there (Luka didnt preform that well the 1st game they watched). I truly believe that Doncic and Igor was McD's plan, but Doncic got overruled by Sarver/Jones. Sure McD SAID that Ayton was his choice, but once again it was McD playing the role to try to keep his Boss blame free in whatever situation should arise.
Weird take considering the little weasle mcd was so fond of blaming failures on others and leaking info. I think we'd have heard by now.

Also he used his 1st lotto pick on a C and his biggest UFA signing was a C. Dude liked centers.

Plus after Aytons workout mcd looked like he was about to spring a Woody with excitement.

My guess is the whole organizational wanted Ayton. He looks like a freak in workouts I get the appeal and think plenty of teams would have made the same decision. I"m sure Sarver had final say on this pick simply because there isn't an owner in the league that wouldn't have final say on a move as big as the #1 pick in the draft.

Heck kerrsed weren't you a doncic guy for a second but then went all in Ayton after they win the lottery? It was easy to get caught in the hype.


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Yeah, no chance McD was a Doncic guy. Not sure where this comes from other than Kerrsed being big McD supporter. McD was interviewed multiple times pre draft even before lottery and said they were looking at bigs.....focused on centers, etc. He looked relieved/stoked when we won the lottery.

I don't even think he takes Doncic 2nd if someone else went first. I think he probably takes Bagley. I mean to me it couldn't have been more obvious that McD wanted Ayton, even before the workout.

Plus, if McD really wanted Doncic he and/or some of his people would have surely leaked that out by now through Woj or Gambo or whoever that he wanted Doncic but Sarver insisted on Ayton, just like all the other leaks he's done.


Ayton would’ve been a Sun whether he went to Duke, Kansas or UCLA. If it was about publicity he should’ve taken Doncic who was a global star.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1462 » by Damkac » Sat Mar 2, 2019 11:42 pm

phnart wrote:Serious question: Is there any hope for this team? I'm having a harder and harder time finding positives. I'm getting to the point where the only player I even sort of like is Mikal Bridges. I want to root for Ayton, but he just doesn't seem to care about 65% of the time, which sucks. Booker is a great shooter, but little else. I feel like I keep posting the same thing, but I'm getting to the point where it's very hard to root for them and that bums me out. I've only been a Suns fan for the last 49 years. I did root for the Warriors a little bit in the early 90s after living in the bay area for awhile, but that dried up quickly after moving back to Phoenix. Fed up...bummed...disillusioned...and the worst part is I don't think the owner gives a crap if long time fans like me aren't going to support his team anymore.

Thanks for letting me vent.

I believe a smart GM could fix this team. Just looking at the roster it is not hopeless. There is some talent, there aren't any long term bad contracts (unless you see Booker as one). Needs some serious trades but I think it's possible.

But no smart person will ever want to work for Sarver. As long as he is the owner this team will be s#it.
The only hope for this team is that this MF will sell it.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1463 » by nevetsov » Sun Mar 3, 2019 12:10 am

Warren home to NC for Marvin Williams and their 1st (around 15). CHA do this because they have a plethora of average PFs and TJ is better than anything they will get at 15.

MEM will look to rebuild this off season around JJJ after dumping gasol this offseason. They'll want youth, picks and expirings for Conley, and considering the lack of demand for PGs I think we can land him with a package of the CHA pick (15), MIL pick, Jackson and Tyler's expiring.

Our first is used to address the PF spot:

#1- Zion
#2-4 - if Chicago or Orlando land Zion, flip this pick for either Markannen/Gordon so they can take Morant/Reddish respectively.
#5 and below - ouch, but we could still land a guy like Saric/Isaac for this pick.

Then we match any offer for Oubre and use the MLE on Holmes.

Conley, Melton, Okobo
Booker, Bridges/Daniels
Bridges, Oubre
Zion/Markkanen/AG, Williams
Ayton, Holmes
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1464 » by RaisingArizona » Sun Mar 3, 2019 12:30 am

bwgood77 wrote:I found a good comparison for Josh after his first two years if you look at TS%, BPM (offensive and defensive), VORP, etc...even per 36 or 100 possession numbers somewhat similar..

http://bkref.com/tiny/t4ojb

Edit: JJ is quite worse in VORP I guess, but maybe he can catch up there sat some point and get to the level of a replacement player.

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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1465 » by Blonde » Sun Mar 3, 2019 12:56 am

Barrett with another complete game. 19-10-7 on 44% shooting with 1 steal in a blowout win. A wing duo of Barrett and Bridges would be very complementary just sayin. Don’t see him falling past 2nd.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1466 » by bwgood77 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 1:04 am

Blonde wrote:Barrett with another complete game. 19-10-7 on 44% shooting with 1 steal in a blowout win. A wing duo of Barrett and Bridges would be very complementary just sayin. Don’t see him falling past 2nd.


In this scenario, given that Barrett can be a playmaker and Bridges has shown that as well, that we run Booker/Bridges/Barrett at 1/2/3?

If we could run with elite ball movement with no dedicated primary ball handler this seems like it could theoretically work as long as Booker didn't try do dominate it too much and kept the ball moving.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1467 » by Blonde » Sun Mar 3, 2019 1:19 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Blonde wrote:Barrett with another complete game. 19-10-7 on 44% shooting with 1 steal in a blowout win. A wing duo of Barrett and Bridges would be very complementary just sayin. Don’t see him falling past 2nd.


In this scenario, given that Barrett can be a playmaker and Bridges has shown that as well, that we run Booker/Bridges/Barrett at 1/2/3?

If we could run with elite ball movement with no dedicated primary ball handler this seems like it could theoretically work as long as Booker didn't try do dominate it too much and kept the ball moving.


I’d ease into that lineup, but that would be the long term goal. Trade Josh/Warren and use our capspace on role playing pg and pf, and bring Barrett off the bench for a year. I know you haven’t watched many prospects this year but I think you’d love this kid. It’s well within his projectible outcomes to be a lead playmaker/scorer at a higher level than Booker.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1468 » by bwgood77 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 2:18 am

Blonde wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Blonde wrote:Barrett with another complete game. 19-10-7 on 44% shooting with 1 steal in a blowout win. A wing duo of Barrett and Bridges would be very complementary just sayin. Don’t see him falling past 2nd.


In this scenario, given that Barrett can be a playmaker and Bridges has shown that as well, that we run Booker/Bridges/Barrett at 1/2/3?

If we could run with elite ball movement with no dedicated primary ball handler this seems like it could theoretically work as long as Booker didn't try do dominate it too much and kept the ball moving.


I’d ease into that lineup, but that would be the long term goal. Trade Josh/Warren and use our capspace on role playing pg and pf, and bring Barrett off the bench for a year. I know you haven’t watched many prospects this year but I think you’d love this kid. It’s well within his projectible outcomes to be a lead playmaker/scorer at a higher level than Booker.


Oh yeah, I know he's a much higher rated prospect than Booker was. I still don't like that he's not a great 3 pt shooter these days. In general I would look for elite 3 pt shooters in college and stop going after guys who we think or hope can develop that shot.

It's encouraging he's up to 35% in conference play, but at Duke with a team loaded with options, you should get a lot of good shots.

I also don't want any people who dribble the air out of the ball, and I can't say that I know enough about him to know if he does that, but I have heard some "plays more for himself than the team".

I'm done with iso players are really want guys who play smart team ball. But the assists are nice to see.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1469 » by Blonde » Sun Mar 3, 2019 3:47 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Blonde wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
In this scenario, given that Barrett can be a playmaker and Bridges has shown that as well, that we run Booker/Bridges/Barrett at 1/2/3?

If we could run with elite ball movement with no dedicated primary ball handler this seems like it could theoretically work as long as Booker didn't try do dominate it too much and kept the ball moving.


I’d ease into that lineup, but that would be the long term goal. Trade Josh/Warren and use our capspace on role playing pg and pf, and bring Barrett off the bench for a year. I know you haven’t watched many prospects this year but I think you’d love this kid. It’s well within his projectible outcomes to be a lead playmaker/scorer at a higher level than Booker.


Oh yeah, I know he's a much higher rated prospect than Booker was. I still don't like that he's not a great 3 pt shooter these days. In general I would look for elite 3 pt shooters in college and stop going after guys who we think or hope can develop that shot.

It's encouraging he's up to 35% in conference play, but at Duke with a team loaded with options, you should get a lot of good shots.

I also don't want any people who dribble the air out of the ball, and I can't say that I know enough about him to know if he does that, but I have heard some "plays more for himself than the team".

I'm done with iso players are really want guys who play smart team ball. But the assists are nice to see.


For what it’s worth, people had the same concerns about Doncic’s shooting at this time last year, but it was obvious from watching that he was a world class shooter. I won’t put Barrett at that level, but with guys who do a heavy amount of self creation, have smooth mechanics, and can get their shot off whenever, I have a high degree of confidence in their shooting at the next level.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1470 » by bwgood77 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 4:54 am

Blonde wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Blonde wrote:
I’d ease into that lineup, but that would be the long term goal. Trade Josh/Warren and use our capspace on role playing pg and pf, and bring Barrett off the bench for a year. I know you haven’t watched many prospects this year but I think you’d love this kid. It’s well within his projectible outcomes to be a lead playmaker/scorer at a higher level than Booker.


Oh yeah, I know he's a much higher rated prospect than Booker was. I still don't like that he's not a great 3 pt shooter these days. In general I would look for elite 3 pt shooters in college and stop going after guys who we think or hope can develop that shot.

It's encouraging he's up to 35% in conference play, but at Duke with a team loaded with options, you should get a lot of good shots.

I also don't want any people who dribble the air out of the ball, and I can't say that I know enough about him to know if he does that, but I have heard some "plays more for himself than the team".

I'm done with iso players are really want guys who play smart team ball. But the assists are nice to see.


For what it’s worth, people had the same concerns about Doncic’s shooting at this time last year, but it was obvious from watching that he was a world class shooter. I won’t put Barrett at that level, but with guys who do a heavy amount of self creation, have smooth mechanics, and can get their shot off whenever, I have a high degree of confidence in their shooting at the next level.


FT% not great though, so not good indicator. I'd feel better if he was like 80%+ from there, but again Doncic not great there either.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1471 » by Frank Lee » Sun Mar 3, 2019 4:59 am

Dont try to talk yourself into these guys. That pick is a goner if we dont get Zion or Ja.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1472 » by bwgood77 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 5:17 am

No idea if we trade the pick...it's pretty rare for top 5 or 6 picks to get traded for a player..though I guess a 6th pick was traded for Jrue and a 7th pick for Butler. I could see it for Jrue maybe. I'd be happy to end up with Brandon Clarke though if we draft 5-7.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1473 » by DirtyDez » Sun Mar 3, 2019 5:31 am

bwgood77 wrote:No idea if we trade the pick...it's pretty rare for top 5 or 6 picks to get traded for a player..though I guess a 6th pick was traded for Jrue and a 7th pick for Butler. I could see it for Jrue maybe. I'd be happy to end up with Brandon Clarke though if we draft 5-7.


Wiggins for Love
Jeff Green for Ray Allen

Yeah it’s pretty rare....

Edit: the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1474 » by bwgood77 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 5:40 am

DirtyDez wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:No idea if we trade the pick...it's pretty rare for top 5 or 6 picks to get traded for a player..though I guess a 6th pick was traded for Jrue and a 7th pick for Butler. I could see it for Jrue maybe. I'd be happy to end up with Brandon Clarke though if we draft 5-7.


Wiggins for Love
Jeff Green for Ray Allen

Yeah it’s pretty rare....

Edit: the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye


I guess every one of those trades was when a team was going into a total rebuild...Sonics, Timberwolves, Sixers, and Bulls. So if that's what the Pelicans are doing, we will see. I think it might depend on what package the Pelicans get back from AD on whether or not they trade Jrue....I didn't think they would trade him since they would likely get a good package back but they gave indications they would, so we'll see.

I was thinking what if the Lakers won the lottery. They'd surely trade Zion for AD...and might be able to keep many of their other young players in that case.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1475 » by starbosa10 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 5:54 am

bwgood77 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:No idea if we trade the pick...it's pretty rare for top 5 or 6 picks to get traded for a player..though I guess a 6th pick was traded for Jrue and a 7th pick for Butler. I could see it for Jrue maybe. I'd be happy to end up with Brandon Clarke though if we draft 5-7.


Wiggins for Love
Jeff Green for Ray Allen

Yeah it’s pretty rare....

Edit: the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye


I guess every one of those trades was when a team was going into a total rebuild...Sonics, Timberwolves, Sixers, and Bulls. So if that's what the Pelicans are doing, we will see. I think it might depend on what package the Pelicans get back from AD on whether or not they trade Jrue....I didn't think they would trade him since they would likely get a good package back but they gave indications they would, so we'll see.

I was thinking what if the Lakers won the lottery. They'd surely trade Zion for AD...and might be able to keep many of their other young players in that case.

If Lakers jump from 13 to 1 I'm done with basketball
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1476 » by JDJ26 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 5:55 am

Damkac wrote:
phnart wrote:Serious question: Is there any hope for this team? I'm having a harder and harder time finding positives. I'm getting to the point where the only player I even sort of like is Mikal Bridges. I want to root for Ayton, but he just doesn't seem to care about 65% of the time, which sucks. Booker is a great shooter, but little else. I feel like I keep posting the same thing, but I'm getting to the point where it's very hard to root for them and that bums me out. I've only been a Suns fan for the last 49 years. I did root for the Warriors a little bit in the early 90s after living in the bay area for awhile, but that dried up quickly after moving back to Phoenix. Fed up...bummed...disillusioned...and the worst part is I don't think the owner gives a crap if long time fans like me aren't going to support his team anymore.

Thanks for letting me vent.

I believe a smart GM could fix this team. Just looking at the roster it is not hopeless. There is some talent, there aren't any long term bad contracts (unless you see Booker as one). Needs some serious trades but I think it's possible.

But no smart person will ever want to work for Sarver. As long as he is the owner this team will be s#it.
The only hope for this team is that this MF will sell it.


Like I said before I wish Elon Musk could buy the team. PayPal is our jersey sponsor which was his first company. The Suns could get sponsored by PayPal and Tesla. I don't think he would be as hands on as Sarver and money definitely wouldn't be an issue.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1477 » by bwgood77 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 6:15 am

starbosa10 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Wiggins for Love
Jeff Green for Ray Allen

Yeah it’s pretty rare....

Edit: the Wizards traded the 5th pick for Mike Miller and Randy Foye


I guess every one of those trades was when a team was going into a total rebuild...Sonics, Timberwolves, Sixers, and Bulls. So if that's what the Pelicans are doing, we will see. I think it might depend on what package the Pelicans get back from AD on whether or not they trade Jrue....I didn't think they would trade him since they would likely get a good package back but they gave indications they would, so we'll see.

I was thinking what if the Lakers won the lottery. They'd surely trade Zion for AD...and might be able to keep many of their other young players in that case.

If Lakers jump from 13 to 1 I'm done with basketball


Last time the odds were flatter, before they changed it to the most recent system, the Magic won for the 2nd year in a row with a 1.5% chance. That was only with 11 teams though (they had 11th best odds)...the following year those odds got trimmed to .5%

With the new odds, 12th worst has 1.5% or about 7% to jump top 4. 13th worst is 1% or about 4.5% for top 4.

Odds are not good, though those odds that got stripped from top 3 really got distributed, so anyone in the bottom 8 or 9 has a reasonably good chance. 8th worst has about half as much chance as 3 worst teams do. 7th worst more than half as good of chance (7.5%)
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1478 » by Bogyo » Sun Mar 3, 2019 10:09 am

Frank Lee wrote:Dont try to talk yourself into these guys. That pick is a goner if we dont get Zion or Ja.


I'd agree it has a 90%+ chance of happening. However, if we trade 1-2 of our wings for a PF or PG and let Oubre sign elsewhere (if he gets anything above 12 m/y I'm not matching), then we could take a rookie wing, have him play behind Book/Bridges/whoever is left. Especially if we land 2 or 3 and Barrett is there, you take this into strong consideration. I don't think he would be a lot worse as a bench player in his first year than JJ or Oubre are now. All would have their faults, and if we are a better team becouse of a trade and an FA signing at PF/PG, we could easily afford a high-end wing rookie in our rotation, especially as a 6th man scorer/creator off the bench.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1479 » by Blonde » Sun Mar 3, 2019 11:03 am

Thinking about the Celtics rebuild, they had Paul Pierce and a young Rajon Rondo. They traded their #5 pick and scraps for a slightly past his prime Ray Allen. Then traded Al Jefferson, scraps, and 2 first round picks for Kevin Garnett.

The modern equivalent of this would be a bottom dwelling team with a star trading for Beal and AD. Lakers obviously make sense if they jump up in the lottery. I would say Mavericks but they traded like 3 future picks already. Suns could make sense but neither Booker nor Ayton are stars now - maybe in 2 or 3 years time they are though. Probably don’t have the assets to get both either, especially not without giving up one or both of Mikal or Ayton. And it wouldn’t be worth trading for AD without having a guy like Beal already here.

I don’t think there will be anymore overnight contenders formed by trade. They’re all either made slowly over time through draft (Spurs/Denver/GS/Bucks) or via free agency (Miami/possibly Knicks next year).

Suns are stuck in a position where they need to rely on all three methods of draft/trade/free agency because they haven’t seen great success with any. We’ve drafted a few keepers, step 2 would be to trade for a star, and then step 3 is sign a star free agent. The problem is that we probably can’t make both those steps at the same time, and we can’t do step 3 first because no stars want to sign here. So yeah, by all means trade our pick for a star, but they better be worth it. And I mean like Jrue is probably the worst player I would trade it for. I think the slow growth via drafting method is probably the most likely to bring success for this team, but I get that everyone is understandably impatient.
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Re: Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working 

Post#1480 » by Kerrsed » Sun Mar 3, 2019 11:14 am

I look at the draft this way:

1. We get the top pick and take Zion.
2. We get the 2nd pick and take Ja.
3. We get the 3rd pick and take Ja (Its almost certain that if a team besides us gets #2 they are going Barrett)
4. We get the 4th pick and there is a 50/50 chance that Ja is there. Teams will be split between him and Reddish.
5. Ja wont be there so trade down for Clarke and a win now player.

The biggest issue with #5 is that no one knows where Clarke will be going. Out of all the updated sites i have checked, Tankathon has him the highest at #11. Pretty much every other site has him going in the mid to late 20's with even a few knocking him back to the 2nd round. 247sports has him st #20, SI has him at #27, thebiglead.com has him at #24, draftsite.com has him at #30, nbcsports doesnt even have him in the 1st round, and NBA draft has him at #43. For the few that dont have mocks and just rankings or bigboards, The Stepien has him buried somewhere in tier 4 (Behind 25+ other players) and the Ringer has him at #14 on their "Big Board".

I think its pretty safe to say that he will be taken somewhere between #14-#45. So what teams in that rather large spot (Most likely playoff teams) would be willing to part with a nice player for us along with their pick for a young hopeful stud in Reddish/Culver/Hayes/Langford/Hunter ?

One idea that could prove to be rather interesting is dealing with Boston. They have 3 non lotto 1st round picks, ones that will be included in the rumored Anthony Davis trade. Unfortunately the draft (June 20th) is way before the FA and trade moratorium (July 6th) so we couldnt deal with the Pelicans in a 3 way. We could do a trade with the Pelicans straight up once we find out where we stand at the lotto, and offer something like Johnson/#4-#6 for Holiday/And the Pelicans pick (So far slated to be around #10), which gives them the option of then maybe flipping (Getting out of) Johnsons expiring in the Davis trade with Boston taking both Davis and Johnson for Whatever they are offering.

Other teams in that late lottery/mid 1st we could target would be (And who i would be interested in):
Miami - Dragic/#10 for #4/Johnson
Cleveland - Love/#21 for #4/Johnson

Other than those 2 its rather slim picking. But if we could walk away with Dargic/Clarke or Love/Clarke for missing out on Zion and Ja (While also shedding Johnsons dead weight), i would consider that a major win.
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