The LeBron Thread (merged)

[coldfish]

The Cavs figured out that you simply have to surround Lebron with shooters. He hates to run a structured offense and he doesn't do particularly well off ball. It sucks for the Cavs from the standpoint that if you build a team around Lebron and then he leaves, it completely collapses. Regardless, Lebron does one thing (play a 4 spread offense with him as the ball handler) and he does it really well. When you try to get into a motion offense or something, he gets outright insubordinate.

It sucks for the Cavs? He led them to their first championship. Whatever they're dealing with now, that's a payoff you make 100 times out of 100 times. Same thing with Miami. They tripled their championship total and made it to the Finals every season with him. Almost half the NBA has never had that kind of success either team enjoyed with him.

He's got his flaws, especially now that he's past peak. The passive-aggressiveness and pouty behavior gets old fast, especially during games. That's compounded by the fact he's prone to making James Harden-like lapses on defense at this point, down to basic lack of effort, which absolutely impacts everybody else's attitude. We're not even a full season into this, and it's absolutely fair to question whether we've made a big mistake hitching our wagon to a player whose timeline we're not even remotely equipped to capitalize on. (And if we strike out this summer, which I've got a sinking feeling we will, it's probably not even a question anymore.)

But over the course of his entire career, LeBron's positives grossly outweigh the negatives. Point taken about being in the East. But be that as it may, you do even a half-way decent job building a team around him, and you're pretty much a lock to make the conference finals. You can count the number of players you can say that about on one hand.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out that you effectively have to create a house of cards around Lebron with him as the middle piece. When he isn't there, the whole thing falls down.

I don't think LA made a mistake by hitching their wagon to Lebron. Like I said, I think they could quickly put build a contender with him as a core piece. Magic just needs to accept what a Lebron-contender team looks like. It doesn't have players like Rondo or Ball on it playing regularly.

[dockingsched]

The Cavs figured out that you simply have to surround Lebron with shooters. He hates to run a structured offense and he doesn't do particularly well off ball. It sucks for the Cavs from the standpoint that if you build a team around Lebron and then he leaves, it completely collapses. Regardless, Lebron does one thing (play a 4 spread offense with him as the ball handler) and he does it really well. When you try to get into a motion offense or something, he gets outright insubordinate.

It sucks for the Cavs? He led them to their first championship. Whatever they're dealing with now, that's a payoff you make 100 times out of 100 times. Same thing with Miami. They tripled their championship total and made it to the Finals every season with him. Almost half the NBA has never had that kind of success either team enjoyed with him.

He's got his flaws, especially now that he's past peak. The passive-aggressiveness and pouty behavior gets old fast, especially during games. That's compounded by the fact he's prone to making James Harden-like lapses on defense at this point, down to basic lack of effort, which absolutely impacts everybody else's attitude. We're not even a full season into this, and it's absolutely fair to question whether we've made a big mistake hitching our wagon to a player whose timeline we're not even remotely equipped to capitalize on. (And if we strike out this summer, which I've got a sinking feeling we will, it's probably not even a question anymore.)

But over the course of his entire career, LeBron's positives grossly outweigh the negatives. Point taken about being in the East. But be that as it may, you do even a half-way decent job building a team around him, and you're pretty much a lock to make the conference finals. You can count the number of players you can say that about on one hand.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out that you effectively have to create a house of cards around Lebron with him as the middle piece. When he isn't there, the whole thing falls down.

I don't think LA made a mistake by hitching their wagon to Lebron. Like I said, I think they could quickly put build a contender with him as a core piece. Magic just needs to accept what a Lebron-contender team looks like. It doesn't have players like Rondo or Ball on it playing regularly.

I don’t think the idea that things fall apart once you remove the center piece superstar is something that’s unique to LeBron. I’m not really sure why that’s even worth bringing up.

[Sedale Threatt]

The Cavs figured out that you simply have to surround Lebron with shooters. He hates to run a structured offense and he doesn't do particularly well off ball. It sucks for the Cavs from the standpoint that if you build a team around Lebron and then he leaves, it completely collapses. Regardless, Lebron does one thing (play a 4 spread offense with him as the ball handler) and he does it really well. When you try to get into a motion offense or something, he gets outright insubordinate.

It sucks for the Cavs? He led them to their first championship. Whatever they're dealing with now, that's a payoff you make 100 times out of 100 times. Same thing with Miami. They tripled their championship total and made it to the Finals every season with him. Almost half the NBA has never had that kind of success either team enjoyed with him.

He's got his flaws, especially now that he's past peak. The passive-aggressiveness and pouty behavior gets old fast, especially during games. That's compounded by the fact he's prone to making James Harden-like lapses on defense at this point, down to basic lack of effort, which absolutely impacts everybody else's attitude. We're not even a full season into this, and it's absolutely fair to question whether we've made a big mistake hitching our wagon to a player whose timeline we're not even remotely equipped to capitalize on. (And if we strike out this summer, which I've got a sinking feeling we will, it's probably not even a question anymore.)

But over the course of his entire career, LeBron's positives grossly outweigh the negatives. Point taken about being in the East. But be that as it may, you do even a half-way decent job building a team around him, and you're pretty much a lock to make the conference finals. You can count the number of players you can say that about on one hand.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out that you effectively have to create a house of cards around Lebron with him as the middle piece. When he isn't there, the whole thing falls down.

I don't think LA made a mistake by hitching their wagon to Lebron. Like I said, I think they could quickly put build a contender with him as a core piece. Magic just needs to accept what a Lebron-contender team looks like. It doesn't have players like Rondo or Ball on it playing regularly.

For sure, but you can say that about a ton of stars. For example, look how we fell into the toilet when Magic retired. Fortunately we had a great GM and caught a break with Orlando somehow alienating a 25-year-old superduper star, so we got out of it pretty quickly. But not many teams are going to look good when their talisman leaves/retires/gets hurt/whatever.

At any rate, I do agree that our management did a poor job assembling this roster. I get wanting to actually see how LeBron plays next to, say, second-year Lonzo Ball. But giving roughly $30 million to Rondo, Stephenson, Pope and Michael Freaking Beasley ... it almost makes you want to cry. And it's not like we didn't know we couldn't shoot, independent of needing to play to LeBron's strengths. We've been bad there for a while, and we made zero attempt to address it.

I do think, however, that this is going to be a make-or-break summer for this whole experiment. LeBron will only be a year older, and management should have a clearer idea -- not they shouldn't have already -- of our flaws. If they can't pull off the superstar sweepstakes they've been aiming at for a couple of years now, which seems fairly likely given the chatter regarding Leonard, Durant, etc, I'm pretty comfortable calling this a failure.

[coldfish]

I don’t think the idea that things fall apart once you remove the center piece superstar is something that’s unique to LeBron. I’m not really sure why that’s even worth bringing up.

It was a minor point. Just something to keep in mind about Lebron. People always bring up how bad the teams are without him, particularly in Cleveland. That makes him look like he was carrying a bunch of scrubs. Its more complicated than that. Those teams were custom fit for him and without him, they can't function because he filled such an important role. Its a reality that any team trying to build around Lebron will have to accept.

[Danny Darko]

another big thing here is this dude came here to make money and watch his kid play. He's doing both.

I was fairly pissed at Kobe in his last 4 years for being a ball hog that refused to make his team a cohesive unit or even try to facilitate greatness outside his own (well documented on this site). LeBron is just not even focused, though.

Read on Twitter

[SlimShady83]

another big thing here is this dude came here to make money and watch his kid play. He's doing both.

I was fairly pissed at Kobe in his last 4 years for being a ball hog that refused to make his team a cohesive unit or even try to facilitate greatness outside his own (well documented on this site). LeBron is just not even focused, though.

Read on Twitter

now we have mr load management

I'd rather make the playoffs and get knocked out of the first round - then to miss the playoffs

but maybe that's just me?

[Danny Darko]

another big thing here is this dude came here to make money and watch his kid play. He's doing both.

I was fairly pissed at Kobe in his last 4 years for being a ball hog that refused to make his team a cohesive unit or even try to facilitate greatness outside his own (well documented on this site). LeBron is just not even focused, though.

Read on Twitter

now we have mr load management

I'd rather make the playoffs and get knocked out of the first round - then to miss the playoffs

but maybe that's just me?

Dude I'm with you. If this team makes the playoffs it would show the kind of core determination that sometimes comes together like the dirty dozen. we could ditch the non-working 1 year contracts have a very blue collar approach to the unheralded right new pieces, and not even have to bank on what looks like a FA star class that would not want to join the Lakers.

[SlimShady83]

another big thing here is this dude came here to make money and watch his kid play. He's doing both.

I was fairly pissed at Kobe in his last 4 years for being a ball hog that refused to make his team a cohesive unit or even try to facilitate greatness outside his own (well documented on this site). LeBron is just not even focused, though.

Read on Twitter

now we have mr load management

I'd rather make the playoffs and get knocked out of the first round - then to miss the playoffs

but maybe that's just me?

Dude I'm with you. If this team makes the playoffs it would show the kind of core determination that sometimes comes together like the dirty dozen. we could ditch the non-working 1 year contracts have a very blue collar approach to the unheralded right new pieces, and not even have to bank on what looks like a FA star class that would not want to join the Lakers.

Actually just had a fun idea

Why not tank the rest of the season get a really really high pick. hopefully top 4 is possible?

Then trade Lebron to who ever gets the number 1/2 pick ? wonder if they would? hahaha

[BEazy]

Only way LeBron gets traded is if he tells the front office he wants out.

[Danny Darko]

now we have mr load management

I'd rather make the playoffs and get knocked out of the first round - then to miss the playoffs

but maybe that's just me?

Dude I'm with you. If this team makes the playoffs it would show the kind of core determination that sometimes comes together like the dirty dozen. we could ditch the non-working 1 year contracts have a very blue collar approach to the unheralded right new pieces, and not even have to bank on what looks like a FA star class that would not want to join the Lakers.

Actually just had a fun idea

Why not tank the rest of the season get a really really high pick. hopefully top 4 is possible?

Then trade Lebron to who ever gets the number 1/2 pick ? wonder if they would? hahaha

4.8% to get a top 4 pick for us. Welcome to our dystopian present.

[SlimShady83]

Dude I'm with you. If this team makes the playoffs it would show the kind of core determination that sometimes comes together like the dirty dozen. we could ditch the non-working 1 year contracts have a very blue collar approach to the unheralded right new pieces, and not even have to bank on what looks like a FA star class that would not want to join the Lakers.

Actually just had a fun idea

Why not tank the rest of the season get a really really high pick. hopefully top 4 is possible?

Then trade Lebron to who ever gets the number 1/2 pick ? wonder if they would? hahaha

4.8% to get a top 4 pick for us. Welcome to our dystopian present.

Soooo you saying we have a chance? - insert dumb dumber scene here lol

[SlimShady83]

Only way LeBron gets traded is if he tells the front office he wants out.

Yeh I know it's just wishful thinking

[milesfides]

If you had to boil it down to one thing, it's Lebron's age. That's it. It has contributed to his biggest problem, which is his lack of defense, which has contributed to the biggest team problem, which is the team's lack of defense.

Beyond giving up points on a possession or even the course of one game, his now routinely discussed poor defense has had a broad and deep detrimental impact. Team defense needs to be tight and on a string - the game has evolved to exploit one late rotation. Lebron doesn't even try to rotate. And that lack of ability and effort has absolutely killed the team's trust on the floor. When Lebron messes up, yet he suggests that it was somebody else's fault, it's both confusing and demoralizing. It also emboldens opponents against him and our team; it really does give opponents confidence. Role players have really gone off against us.

Remember, Lebron was once a defensive player of the year candidate. He absolutely dominated on defense which was critical to his team being a championship contender.

Here comes the objection: "Yeah, but he's not that guy anymore. Come on, he's 34 and in his 17th year" - exactly. He's too old. It's not a surprise, but the question is, how realistic is it to build a contender with that liability?

Can we get defensive specialists to surround him? Sure. But for what? Why are we making excuses for a $40m a year player?

Doesn't matter what Lebron's stats are. Look at what James Harden has done, but who cares? He doesn't play defense and they'll be trashed in the playoffs. Impressed by Lebron's assists and rebounds? Russell Westbrook has averaged a triple double for three seasons. So what? It's Paul George who is the MVP candidate, for his play on both ends of the floor.

There is no underlying narrative here. We suck because he sucks. He's getting attacked in the media because that's exactly what it is.

There's no player, not Tyson Chandler or Lonzo Ball, or coaching scheme or rotation who can hide this fact anymore.

The NBA is too hard, too difficult to win with a no-defense prima donna.

[thebigbird]

If you had to boil it down to one thing, it's Lebron's age. That's it. It has contributed to his biggest problem, which is his lack of defense, which has contributed to the biggest team problem, which is the team's lack of defense.

Beyond giving up points on a possession or even the course of one game, his now routinely discussed poor defense has had a broad and deep detrimental impact. Team defense needs to be tight and on a string - the game has evolved to exploit one late rotation. Lebron doesn't even try to rotate. And that lack of ability and effort has absolutely killed the team's trust on the floor. When Lebron messes up, yet he suggests that it was somebody else's fault, it's both confusing and demoralizing. It also emboldens opponents against him and our team; it really does give opponents confidence. Role players have really gone off against us.

Remember, Lebron was once a defensive player of the year candidate. He absolutely dominated on defense which was critical to his team being a championship contender.

Here comes the objection: "Yeah, but he's not that guy anymore. Come on, he's 34 and in his 17th year" - exactly. He's too old. It's not a surprise, but the question is, how realistic is it to build a contender with that liability?

Can we get defensive specialists to surround him? Sure. But for what? Why are we making excuses for a $40m a year player?

Doesn't matter what Lebron's stats are. Look at what James Harden has done, but who cares? He doesn't play defense and they'll be trashed in the playoffs. Impressed by Lebron's assists and rebounds? Russell Westbrook has averaged a triple double for three seasons. So what? It's Paul George who is the MVP candidate, for his play on both ends of the floor.

There is no underlying narrative here. We suck because he sucks. He's getting attacked in the media because that's exactly what it is.

There's no player, not Tyson Chandler or Lonzo Ball, or coaching scheme or rotation who can hide this fact anymore.

The NBA is too hard, too difficult to win with a no-defense prima donna.

Lebron sucks

It just keeps getting more and more laughable. No big time free agent had signed with the Lakers since Shaq 22 years ago, yet you think people will come flocking to the Lakers if you trade a top-2 player of all-time after he committed long-term to the team. It's completely absurd.

[madmaxmedia]

Here comes the objection: "Yeah, but he's not that guy anymore. Come on, he's 34 and in his 17th year" - exactly. He's too old. It's not a surprise, but the question is, how realistic is it to build a contender with that liability?

It would have been a lot easier to build a playoff team, had the Lakers been willing to sign guys who wanted more than 1-year contracts. But they obviously went all-in on saving cap space for next season, and that's the judgement call they will all have to live with. I don't think it's quite accurate when some say, well they could easily have just signed Randle/Lopez/etc. to big 1-year deals, because those players may or may not have accepted 1-year deals (at least at the beginning of free agency.) I mean offering Randle a 1-year is basically confirming to him them he's still not in the Lakers' future plans, which is what drove him away in the first place.

Also, Lebron being a Mr. CEO type (which I don't have a problem with generally) has had a big impact on his leadership position on the team. All these trade rumors inevitably come back to him in the minds of his teammates, how is he gonna be the guy who leads and rallies his team? Half of them are on 1-year deals, the other half was just offered in a trade for 1 guy.

I get that they're pros and should always play hard, yada yada. But leadership, morale, and team cohesion are important, or the whole will be never greater than the sum of the parts. This team is bad enough right now that the whole is actually LESS than the sum of the parts. I don't blame Lebron 100% for this, in that the actions and plans of Maginka basically magnified all the downsides of signing 34-year old business tycoon Lebron (and the groin injury nullified a lot of the positives.)

[Kilroy]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lebron-hasnt-lost-la-fans-%e2%80%94-he-never-had-them/vi-BBUpMfc

[Danny Darko]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lebron-hasnt-lost-la-fans-%e2%80%94-he-never-had-them/vi-BBUpMfc

That might be the most accurate thing I've heard Wiley say in years.

[Kilroy]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lebron-hasnt-lost-la-fans-%e2%80%94-he-never-had-them/vi-BBUpMfc

That might be the most accurate thing I've heard Wiley say in years.

Agreed... He nailed it. Posting a link really doesn't do it justice...

[milesfides]

100% nailed it.

Lebron is a disgrace to the purple and gold because he's using the Lakers to advance Lebron Inc. He won't ever, ever sacrifice for the team. He doesn't play hard, he doesn't battle, and for all his stat-padding, he can't cheat the eye test.

It's Kobe's town because as flawed as Kobe was, as a player and human being, the guy earned our respect and admiration.

Lebron on the other hand is a disgrace. It's a shame. I'm ashamed and embarrassed that he's a Laker. I bleed purple and gold, even in the toughest years, but this is the year that I'm embarrassed to be associated in any way with this leech. He's got no heart so he feeds on the lifeblood of others.

Forget passing the torch to Lebron. We need Kobe to come out of retirement to stick one last dagger in this vampire.

[thebigbird]

100% nailed it.

Lebron is a disgrace to the purple and gold because he's using the Lakers to advance Lebron Inc. He won't ever, ever sacrifice for the team. He doesn't play hard, he doesn't battle, and for all his stat-padding, he can't cheat the eye test.

It's Kobe's town because as flawed as Kobe was, as a player and human being, the guy earned our respect and admiration.

Lebron on the other hand is a disgrace. It's a shame. I'm ashamed and embarrassed that he's a Laker. I bleed purple and gold, even in the toughest years, but this is the year that I'm embarrassed to be associated in any way with this leech. He's got no heart so he feeds on lifeblood of others.

Forget passing the torch to Lebron. We need Kobe to come out of retirement to stick one last dagger in this vampire.

You're embarrassed that Lebron is a Laker but weren't embarrassed about the Lakers being represented by a rapist all those years? Being a sexual predator isn't a "flaw".

Warned. Stop trolling or get board banned... Choice is yours. - Kilroy

Cosigned- DD