Regular Season Game 65: Orlando Magic (30-34) at Cleveland Cavaliers (15-48) - 6:00 PM ET

[The Real Dalic]

Love the justification of this fraud squad in here. This is what happens when a Vucevic is your best player and his sidekick is someone named Fournier. You’ll never be good.

Seriously, I don't say this to anyone. But go away. You're only here to demean the Magic during losses and never say anything positive. You were even talking when the Magic looked like they were gonna lose to the Warriors then crawled back into your hole. I'm 100% certain you aren't a fan of this team at all. Pure definition of a troll.

[NBlue]

I think if you look at the 3 horrible losses -- Bulls, Knicks and last night -- I'd suggest this one was the least horrible. Three games in 4 nights with a TON of energy expended against the Warriors and Pacers and then playing a Cavs team with Love back and very motivated after getting totally destroyed the game before. Sure, we should have won -- but if you look at it in context its really understandable. I'd argue that the Knicks loss was way, way worse and totally awful and unacceptable. I think this loss stings so bad in light of the losses to the Bulls and Knicks and if we would have won those it wouldn't be so bad. Still sucks though.

[Knightro]

I think if you look at the 3 horrible losses -- Bulls, Knicks and last night -- I'd suggest this one was the least horrible. Three games in 4 nights with a TON of energy expended against the Warriors and Pacers and then playing a Cavs team with Love back and very motivated after getting totally destroyed the game before. Sure, we should have won -- but if you look at it in context its really understandable. I'd argue that the Knicks loss was way, way worse and totally awful and unacceptable. I think this loss stings so bad in light of the losses to the Bulls and Knicks and if we would have won those it wouldn't be so bad. Still sucks though.

The Knicks loss was SIGNIFICANTLY worse.

The Magic gave that game away. Leading by 12 going into the 4th and leading by 6 with 6 minutes left.

Orlando lost the lead with almost 11 minutes to go in the game and never got it back because Cavs randomly caught fire from three late in the game.

From the 5:54 mark to the 1:46 mark of the 4th Q the Cavs made 5 of 6 threes (after making just 9-37 24% the previous 3.5 quarters) to essentially ice the game.

[Shady Franchise]

AG could be athletic Draymond Green. We just need to find 3 of the greatest shooters of all time to play with him

I think this statement does a disservice to Draymond's basketball IQ. Even without Gordon's athleticism, Green is a better defender.I mean look at these accomplishments:

3× NBA champion: 2015, 2017, 2018
3× NBA All-Star: 2016, 2017, 2018
2× All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2016
Third team: 2017
NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2017
4× NBA All-Defensive selection:
3× First team: 2015, 2016, 2017
Second team: 2018
NBA steals leader: 2017
Only NBA player to record a triple-double with fewer than 10 points scored

Take out the Championship wins, and arguably the All-Star selections, everything else he's done on his own with defense. Can Gordon really be a Defensive Player of the Year? Can he even make the All-Defensive team? It would have been more realistic if you said Gordon could be an athletic Draymond Green LITE.

[OrlandO]

Love the justification of this fraud squad in here. This is what happens when a Vucevic is your best player and his sidekick is someone named Fournier. You’ll never be good.

Seriously, I don't say this to anyone. But go away. You're only here to demean the Magic during losses and never say anything positive. You were even talking when the Magic looked like they were gonna lose to the Warriors then crawled back into your hole. I'm 100% certain you aren't a fan of this team at all. Pure definition of a troll.

If we make the playoffs the mods better suspend him and any other debbie downers until the season is over. Posters used to get permanently banned here for stinking up the place with an overly negative vibe.

[PrimeThyme]

Idk.. I get why people want to overreact to last nights loss, but this is literally who this team has been all year. They are weird, and Clifford (who I didn’t think coached a good game last night) is still teaching them how to win consistently in the NBA.

Nothing changed after last night. We are still going to be fighting for that 6-8th spot until the very end. Does losing last night hurt our chances of securing a playoff spot? Sure, but to be fair many posters on this board called this season over at the end of January before the winning streak.

They have still far exceeded my expectations I had for them coming into this season.

[VFX]

I think if you look at the 3 horrible losses -- Bulls, Knicks and last night -- I'd suggest this one was the least horrible. Three games in 4 nights with a TON of energy expended against the Warriors and Pacers and then playing a Cavs team with Love back and very motivated after getting totally destroyed the game before. Sure, we should have won -- but if you look at it in context its really understandable. I'd argue that the Knicks loss was way, way worse and totally awful and unacceptable. I think this loss stings so bad in light of the losses to the Bulls and Knicks and if we would have won those it wouldn't be so bad. Still sucks though.

The Knicks loss was SIGNIFICANTLY worse.

The Magic gave that game away. Leading by 12 going into the 4th and leading by 6 with 6 minutes left.

Orlando lost the lead with almost 11 minutes to go in the game and never got it back because Cavs randomly caught fire from three late in the game.

From the 5:54 mark to the 1:46 mark of the 4th Q the Cavs made 5 of 6 threes (after making just 9-37 24% the previous 3.5 quarters) to essentially ice the game.

It’s not so much about the loss to the Cavs specifically. It’s moreso the fact that losing to the three obviously tanking teams takes away from the great wins Orlando was able to string together. The wins are also slightly mitigated because none of the playoff teams were at full strength (their superstars nonetheless) despite what anyone wants to notice. That being said, I was most proud of the Pacers win in Indiana.

[PrimeThyme]

Clifford said tonights loss was due to us not being ready to play. So it had a lot to do with effort.

This team isn’t ready to be a playoff contender. That much is obvious from the terrible losses they’ve taken and their approach to games they should be winning .

Your right. Not only are they not a playoff contender, but the Magic are not even a good team. They are currently 30-35 and it is unusual for sub-500/losing teams to even make the playoffs. We are just better than we have been over the last 7 years. We have been so bad over said time that the slightest improvement seems massive. Bottom line, as constructed, we are currently not a good NBA team.

No, but I still think the future is bright. Vuc and Evan are just hitting their primes, we have young guys like Isaac and AG years away from their primes contributing and playing meaningful minutes, two other top 6 lottery picks in Fultz and Bamba with (if they both get healthy) huge upside on the back burner waiting to get healthy, and a very good coach in Clifford that can hopefully put it all together.

Compare our situation to the other teams we are fighting with like Char, Detroit, And Miami and I think we easily have the brightest future and most room for growth.

If you asked me before the season started where we would stand on March 4th I would have laughed and told you we would probably be tanking for a top 5 draft pick. I’m actually quite optimistic about the direction this team is headed. I did not expect that to be the case.

[VFX]

This team isn’t ready to be a playoff contender. That much is obvious from the terrible losses they’ve taken and their approach to games they should be winning .

Your right. Not only are they not a playoff contender, but the Magic are not even a good team. They are currently 30-35 and it is unusual for sub-500/losing teams to even make the playoffs. We are just better than we have been over the last 7 years. We have been so bad over said time that the slightest improvement seems massive. Bottom line, as constructed, we are currently not a good NBA team.

No, but I still think the future is bright. Vuc and Evan are just hitting their primes, we have young guys like Isaac and AG years away from their primes contributing and playing meaningful minutes, two other top 6 lottery picks in Fultz and Bamba with (if they both get healthy) huge upside on the back burner waiting to get healthy, and a very good coach in Clifford that can hopefully put it all together.

Compare our situation to the other teams we are fighting with like Char, Detroit, And Miami and I think we easily have the brightest future and most room for growth.

If you asked me before the season started where we would stand on March 4th I would have laughed and told you we would probably be tanking for a top 5 draft pick. I’m actually quite optimistic about the direction this team is headed. I did not expect that to be the case.

We definitely have a brighter future than a lot of those teams you named. Most of this goes back to how people view the potential of Fultz, Isaac, and Bamba moving forward.

[Popsicle1228]

This team isn’t ready to be a playoff contender. That much is obvious from the terrible losses they’ve taken and their approach to games they should be winning .

Your right. Not only are they not a playoff contender, but the Magic are not even a good team. They are currently 30-35 and it is unusual for sub-500/losing teams to even make the playoffs. We are just better than we have been over the last 7 years. We have been so bad over said time that the slightest improvement seems massive. Bottom line, as constructed, we are currently not a good NBA team.

No, but I still think the future is bright. Vuc and Evan are just hitting their primes, we have young guys like Isaac and AG years away from their primes contributing and playing meaningful minutes, two other top 6 lottery picks in Fultz and Bamba with (if they both get healthy) huge upside on the back burner waiting to get healthy, and a very good coach in Clifford that can hopefully put it all together.

Compare our situation to the other teams we are fighting with like Char, Detroit, And Miami and I think we easily have the brightest future and most room for growth.

If you asked me before the season started where we would stand on March 4th I would have laughed and told you we would probably be tanking for a top 5 draft pick. I’m actually quite optimistic about the direction this team is headed. I did not expect that to be the case.

Absolutely. I agree with everything you just said. I was just pointing to the here and now. Overall I am happy with the growth that has occurred this season with respect to multiple players. I am likewise happy with the ability of the new coaching staff to make this team play together and ultimately better. I have not been this excited to be a Magic fan since Dwight left.

[NBlue]

AG could be athletic Draymond Green. We just need to find 3 of the greatest shooters of all time to play with him

I think this statement does a disservice to Draymond's basketball IQ. Even without Gordon's athleticism, Green is a better defender.I mean look at these accomplishments:

3× NBA champion: 2015, 2017, 2018
3× NBA All-Star: 2016, 2017, 2018
2× All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2016
Third team: 2017
NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2017
4× NBA All-Defensive selection:
3× First team: 2015, 2016, 2017
Second team: 2018
NBA steals leader: 2017
Only NBA player to record a triple-double with fewer than 10 points scored

Take out the Championship wins, and arguably the All-Star selections, everything else he's done on his own with defense. Can Gordon really be a Defensive Player of the Year? Can he even make the All-Defensive team? It would have been more realistic if you said Gordon could be an athletic Draymond Green LITE.

I think there is a legitimate argument to make that although AG is good he will never make it to the level of Green. That said, this ain't it.
Dray never achieved any of the foregoing at the age of 23 where AG is now. He also achieved none of those without vastly superior teammates Steph Curr & Klay Thompson and the last two years with KD. Let me know how AG does with those guys or how Dray does without them...

If we traded AG for Draymond today - straight up -- I don't think it makes either team particularly better. Maybe that's me and I'm not saying AG is better than Dray - he is not - I am though suggesting Dray's unique skills benefit the team he is on probably more than any other team in the league fwiw

[Shady Franchise]

AG could be athletic Draymond Green. We just need to find 3 of the greatest shooters of all time to play with him

I think this statement does a disservice to Draymond's basketball IQ. Even without Gordon's athleticism, Green is a better defender.I mean look at these accomplishments:

3× NBA champion: 2015, 2017, 2018
3× NBA All-Star: 2016, 2017, 2018
2× All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2016
Third team: 2017
NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2017
4× NBA All-Defensive selection:
3× First team: 2015, 2016, 2017
Second team: 2018
NBA steals leader: 2017
Only NBA player to record a triple-double with fewer than 10 points scored

Take out the Championship wins, and arguably the All-Star selections, everything else he's done on his own with defense. Can Gordon really be a Defensive Player of the Year? Can he even make the All-Defensive team? It would have been more realistic if you said Gordon could be an athletic Draymond Green LITE.

I think there is a legitimate argument to make that although AG is good he will never make it to the level of Green. That said, this ain't it.
Dray never achieved any of the foregoing at the age of 23 where AG is now. He also achieved none of those without vastly superior teammates Steph Curr & Klay Thompson and the last two years with KD. Let me know how AG does with those guys or how Dray does without them...

If we traded AG for Draymond today - straight up -- I don't think it makes either team particularly better. Maybe that's me and I'm not saying AG is better than Dray - he is not - I am though suggesting Dray's unique skills benefit the team he is on probably more than any other team in the league fwiw

Not quite sure what you're trying to get out of that question, when you know it's impossible to answer. Gordon could become an athletic version of Green, fine. I could see it, but I think it's highly unlikely. And about Green playing with 3 star players, I think it helps Green's legacy more than hurts it because he's able to stand out and make all of these accolades while playing with three other great offensive and defensive players. Put him on the Magic, and I believe he'd have a similar impact because of his IQ, grit and craftiness.

[PrimeThyme]

AG could be athletic Draymond Green. We just need to find 3 of the greatest shooters of all time to play with him

I think this statement does a disservice to Draymond's basketball IQ. Even without Gordon's athleticism, Green is a better defender.I mean look at these accomplishments:

3× NBA champion: 2015, 2017, 2018
3× NBA All-Star: 2016, 2017, 2018
2× All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2016
Third team: 2017
NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2017
4× NBA All-Defensive selection:
3× First team: 2015, 2016, 2017
Second team: 2018
NBA steals leader: 2017
Only NBA player to record a triple-double with fewer than 10 points scored

Take out the Championship wins, and arguably the All-Star selections, everything else he's done on his own with defense. Can Gordon really be a Defensive Player of the Year? Can he even make the All-Defensive team? It would have been more realistic if you said Gordon could be an athletic Draymond Green LITE.

Agreed. AG's defense is improving though. Especially this year. Clifford is the first coach that has gotten AG to fully buy into that side of the court. Even in the offseason press conferences Clifford would make it known publically that his goal for AG is first team defense.

I'm interested to see (if AG is indeed here for the long term) what Clifford can continue to do with him defensively. You have to keep in mind that Dray came into this league at the age AG is now as a 4-year college guy and was a much more polished player. AG has always had the tools defensively to be a great defender, he just hasn't been able to put it all together just yet.

I think we are going to continue to see improvements from him on that end. I would not rule out multiple All-defensive selections just yet.

With all that said though, there are certain intangibles that special defenders have in this league that can't just be taught imo. Isaac to me has those intangibles and can potentially become a peak Draymond type defender while im not convinced that AG can.

[NBlue]

I think this statement does a disservice to Draymond's basketball IQ. Even without Gordon's athleticism, Green is a better defender.I mean look at these accomplishments:

3× NBA champion: 2015, 2017, 2018
3× NBA All-Star: 2016, 2017, 2018
2× All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2016
Third team: 2017
NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2017
4× NBA All-Defensive selection:
3× First team: 2015, 2016, 2017
Second team: 2018
NBA steals leader: 2017
Only NBA player to record a triple-double with fewer than 10 points scored

Take out the Championship wins, and arguably the All-Star selections, everything else he's done on his own with defense. Can Gordon really be a Defensive Player of the Year? Can he even make the All-Defensive team? It would have been more realistic if you said Gordon could be an athletic Draymond Green LITE.

I think there is a legitimate argument to make that although AG is good he will never make it to the level of Green. That said, this ain't it.
Dray never achieved any of the foregoing at the age of 23 where AG is now. He also achieved none of those without vastly superior teammates Steph Curr & Klay Thompson and the last two years with KD. Let me know how AG does with those guys or how Dray does without them...

If we traded AG for Draymond today - straight up -- I don't think it makes either team particularly better. Maybe that's me and I'm not saying AG is better than Dray - he is not - I am though suggesting Dray's unique skills benefit the team he is on probably more than any other team in the league fwiw

Not quite sure what you're trying to get out of that question, when you know it's impossible to answer. Gordon could become an athletic version of Green, fine. I could see it, but I think it's highly unlikely. And about Green playing with 3 star players, I think it helps Green's legacy more than hurts it because he's able to stand out and make all of these accolades while playing with three other great offensive and defensive players. Put him on the Magic, and I believe he'd have a similar impact because of his IQ, grit and craftiness.

All of his accolades are for his defense. He is inarguably a great defensive player. However, he has clear weaknesses in his game at the offensive end that would cause him much greater issues if he wasn't playing with 3 hall of famers. My point is that Green has a unique skillset that is maximized in Golden State. If you put him on the Magic today I don't think his basketball ability is winning us any more games than AG. Now his experience and veteran savvy may certainly help us as a team and I'm not discounting that but the fact of the matter is it helps Green immensely that he plays with that firepower around him.