Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working

[hollywood6964]

I imagine we will keep the cap hold on Oubre. If we keep our draft pick and the cap hold on Holmes, that will only leave between about $6-$9 million in cap space depending on how high our pick is. If we traded our pick and didn't take any salary back, we would have $15.5 million in cap space with the holds. If we released the Holmes hold it goes up to $17 million.

Here are the draft pick rookie scale contracts...the cap holds on them are 120% of salary because you can pay them anywhere from 80%-120% of hold. I imagine most high picks get the 120%.

So that puts the #1 pick at about $9.6, #2 at about $8.6, #3 at $7.8, #4 at $7, #5 at $6.4, #6 at $5.8 and #7 at $5.3.

So wherever our pick lands, you would subract the associated salary from $15.5 (with Oubre/Holmes holds) and $17 with just Oubre hold.

Doesn't include Dragan. So it will be interesting to see what road they take to create cap space. Obviously trading our pick and adding salary like Jackson, Warren or Johnson are about the only ways to take back a big salary like Jrue in trade. If we don't do a trade, it will come down to either stretching Johnson or trading someone like TJ and not taking money back to create more space (if we keep our pick).

I imagine Bukstein has mapped out a bunch of different scenarios and options with his decision trees or whatever it is they said they used.

What if we sigh Tyler to an extension (i.e. 4/36-ish), wouldn't this reduce his cap hit in the coming year?

I would not put that kind of long term money in him. I'd be thinking of ways to get rid of him this summer. I know this board gets so excited they cannot think straight after every win, but Johnson is a bench player. He'll have ups n downs, but he's a bench player none the less.

[RunDogGun]

I think this team needs some continuity as much as anything, resign Oubre keep the guys you have if you can make a great pickup do it but dont make a stupid signing, ie Ariza, just for the sake of signing someone, Rubio, Rozier, all feel like that type of move to me.

I still think Rubio would be pretty good for this line up of players. The problem is we just dont have the shooters currently for Rubio to work ideally. If we land Zion, I would not have any problem signing Rubio. Rozier is a different story, he just hasnt shown to be a passing guard.

[BobbieL]

I think this team needs some continuity as much as anything, resign Oubre keep the guys you have if you can make a great pickup do it but dont make a stupid signing, ie Ariza, just for the sake of signing someone, Rubio, Rozier, all feel like that type of move to me.

I still think Rubio would be pretty good for this line up of players. The problem is we just dont have the shooters currently for Rubio to work ideally. If we land Zion, I wouldn't not have any problem signing Rubio. Rozier is a different story, he just hasnt shown to be a passing guard.

I still like the idea of Rubio too but he actually might be cost prohibitive at 14 to 16m with the Suns limited cap space. So understanding where the FRP is - do they move it? Are they moving TJ or Josh? What to do with tyler Johnson.

many different possibilities and hopefully Jones and Buk have many different screnarios and not "sign Trevor Ariza for every dollar!"

[phnart]

I really shouldn't try to discuss salary cap after several 8% beers. The 928 Farmhouse Ale from Wanderlust in Flagstaff is pretty awesome.

I think I'm still trying to figure out why this team has played so poorly for the vast majority of the season.

[RunDogGun]

I think this team needs some continuity as much as anything, resign Oubre keep the guys you have if you can make a great pickup do it but dont make a stupid signing, ie Ariza, just for the sake of signing someone, Rubio, Rozier, all feel like that type of move to me.

I still think Rubio would be pretty good for this line up of players. The problem is we just dont have the shooters currently for Rubio to work ideally. If we land Zion, I would not have any problem signing Rubio. Rozier is a different story, he just hasnt shown to be a passing guard.

I still like the idea of Rubio too but he actually might be cost prohibitive at 14 to 16m with the Suns limited cap space. So understanding where the FRP is - do they move it? Are they moving TJ or Josh? What to do with tyler Johnson.

many different possibilities and hopefully Jones and Buk have many different screnarios and not "sign Trevor Ariza for every dollar!"

It is tough when thinking of Ariza, for without him, do we get Oubre? Ideally, we trade for the hole we didnt plug with the draft. Is it possible to do a sign and trade for Rubio?

[BobbieL]

I still think Rubio would be pretty good for this line up of players. The problem is we just dont have the shooters currently for Rubio to work ideally. If we land Zion, I would not have any problem signing Rubio. Rozier is a different story, he just hasnt shown to be a passing guard.

I still like the idea of Rubio too but he actually might be cost prohibitive at 14 to 16m with the Suns limited cap space. So understanding where the FRP is - do they move it? Are they moving TJ or Josh? What to do with tyler Johnson.

many different possibilities and hopefully Jones and Buk have many different screnarios and not "sign Trevor Ariza for every dollar!"

It is tough when thinking of Ariza, for without him, do we get Oubre? Ideally, we trade for the hole we didnt plug with the draft. Is it possible to do a sign and trade for Rubio?

I was wondering that / Granted, the Suns still need to be able to sign him outright as the Jazz can just say "bugger off" -- but if maybe a deal like the Bucks pick and Josh Jackson or the Bucks pick and Okobo might be of interest to them to get something back for Rubio. The Suns moving Jackson in that scenario offset 7m of cap space.

[Crives]

Who would be a better fit with booker, Brogdon or Barret?

[RunDogGun]

I still like the idea of Rubio too but he actually might be cost prohibitive at 14 to 16m with the Suns limited cap space. So understanding where the FRP is - do they move it? Are they moving TJ or Josh? What to do with tyler Johnson.

many different possibilities and hopefully Jones and Buk have many different screnarios and not "sign Trevor Ariza for every dollar!"

It is tough when thinking of Ariza, for without him, do we get Oubre? Ideally, we trade for the hole we didnt plug with the draft. Is it possible to do a sign and trade for Rubio?

I was wondering that / Granted, the Suns still need to be able to sign him outright as the Jazz can just say "bugger off" -- but if maybe a deal like the Bucks pick and Josh Jackson or the Bucks pick and Okobo might be of interest to them to get something back for Rubio. The Suns moving Jackson in that scenario offset 7m of cap space.

Yeah, I just dont know what they will think or want. They could have dealt Rubio before the trade deadline, and chose not to.

[BobbieL]

It is tough when thinking of Ariza, for without him, do we get Oubre? Ideally, we trade for the hole we didnt plug with the draft. Is it possible to do a sign and trade for Rubio?

I was wondering that / Granted, the Suns still need to be able to sign him outright as the Jazz can just say "bugger off" -- but if maybe a deal like the Bucks pick and Josh Jackson or the Bucks pick and Okobo might be of interest to them to get something back for Rubio. The Suns moving Jackson in that scenario offset 7m of cap space.

Yeah, I just dont know what they will think or want. They could have dealt Rubio before the trade deadline, and chose not to.

And from the Suns perspective - if they can sign Rubio outright - why are they giving the Bucks pick. In the scenario above - it would probably be the 2nd round pick. Now, Josh Jackson is another thing - thats tangible cap space this coming summer.

I think the two biggest decisions the team has are
1) if the pick is not Zion, do they trade or keep it. It is also 7-8m of cap space if traded
2) Tyler Johnson - there is a value he brings to the team. 19.4m for one year is a tough number but he does have value to the team and probably value in a trade. So I might have to give Jones credit for that one -- easier to trade this summer than Anderson. I truly would probably like to keep him but trying to figure out a number that makes sense from his standpoint and the teams is hard

[RunDogGun]

I was wondering that / Granted, the Suns still need to be able to sign him outright as the Jazz can just say "bugger off" -- but if maybe a deal like the Bucks pick and Josh Jackson or the Bucks pick and Okobo might be of interest to them to get something back for Rubio. The Suns moving Jackson in that scenario offset 7m of cap space.

Yeah, I just dont know what they will think or want. They could have dealt Rubio before the trade deadline, and chose not to.

And from the Suns perspective - if they can sign Rubio outright - why are they giving the Bucks pick. In the scenario above - it would probably be the 2nd round pick. Now, Josh Jackson is another thing - thats tangible cap space this coming summer.

I think the two biggest decisions the team has are
1) if the pick is not Zion, do they trade or keep it. It is also 7-8m of cap space if traded
2) Tyler Johnson - there is a value he brings to the team. 19.4m for one year is a tough number but he does have value to the team and probably value in a trade. So I might have to give Jones credit for that one -- easier to trade this summer than Anderson. I truly would probably like to keep him but trying to figure out a number that makes sense from his standpoint and the teams is hard

Currently we dont have the cap space to sign Rubio if its $14-16 mil contract, unless we unload some players. Much of this will be hashed out once we know where we pick. If we get the top spot again, then we pick Zion, and figure out a trade for a pg, or move enough players to open up space to sign one.

If we get the second spot, and know the third team picking wants RJ, then see if we can get an asset, switch spots, and draft Ja, or just draft Ja at number two. Search for a pf through trade, and possible a vet pg. Re-sign the players we want to keep, and hope for better attitudes and efforts. I am just unsure what we do with our second round pick this year, for we really dont need another rookie or super young player.

[bwgood77]

tj would go great with lebron

I could see a TJ for Ball trade if we land Zion. Sadly we might have to add a pick, and I would really hate to watch TJ go. Also I picture a Cebolos like emergence for TJ if he went to LA.

LA is not going to go for players like that...they are saving cap space and swinging for stars. TJ already is playing about at Ceballos top level. Ceballos was a better rebounder, but outside of that, not much difference.

[King4Day]

Would anyone deal Warren for Brogdon (S&T)?

Helps us remove some salary in order to pay Brogdon a lot of money and also prevents the Bucks from matching if we were to take a chance on signing him to an offer sheet.

No need to stretch Johnson then

[bwgood77]

So what’s the deal with Benders contract if we want to resign him? We cannot offer more yearly then the declined option, but we can add up to 4 years? Can other teams offer more then the declined option?

A three year deal at 4.6 is not looking bad.

Anybody know?

I think we can sign him for what his option would have been, but in order to do so after going over the cap (with Bird rights), we would have to retain his cap hold, which is around $5.9 million, so if we kept the cap holds for our pick, Oubre and Holmes, that basically wipes out our cap space.

We could maybe sign him for the room MLE after free agency, but I'm not a cap expert so I don't know all the rules on all of this, so I'm kind of just guessing based on my limited knowledge.

[RunDogGun]

tj would go great with lebron

I could see a TJ for Ball trade if we land Zion. Sadly we might have to add a pick, and I would really hate to watch TJ go. Also I picture a Cebolos like emergence for TJ if he went to LA.

LA is not going to go for players like that...they are saving cap space and swinging for stars. TJ already is playing about at Ceballos top level. Ceballos was a better rebounder, but outside of that, not much difference.

Well Ced was 19/6.5 when he left the Suns to LA, he just seemed to become more of a star when going to LA, and his three point percentage made a huge change. That is all I meant by "emergence".

I was just commenting on Bum's comment. They can do all the swinging they want, they just might have a tough time hitting.

[bwgood77]

I could see a TJ for Ball trade if we land Zion. Sadly we might have to add a pick, and I would really hate to watch TJ go. Also I picture a Cebolos like emergence for TJ if he went to LA.

LA is not going to go for players like that...they are saving cap space and swinging for stars. TJ already is playing about at Ceballos top level. Ceballos was a better rebounder, but outside of that, not much difference.

Well Ced was 19/6.5 when he left the Suns to LA, he just seemed to become more of a star when going to LA, and his three point percentage made a huge change. That is all I meant by "emergence".

I was just commenting on Bum's comment. They can do all the swinging they want, they just might have a tough time hitting.

Well he didn't really shoot the 3 at all in Phx. Made like 2 3s in 4 years. He only really had one decent year from 3 on reasonable volume in LA (his first year)...after that he was non factor from there.

Anyway, LeBron went to LA to hopefully play with another couple of superstars. If for some reason they can't find starts I imagine they surround him with one year contracts again.

[Crives]

So what’s the deal with Benders contract if we want to resign him? We cannot offer more yearly then the declined option, but we can add up to 4 years? Can other teams offer more then the declined option?

A three year deal at 4.6 is not looking bad.

Anybody know?

I think we can sign him for what his option would have been, but in order to do so after going over the cap (with Bird rights), we would have to retain his cap hold, which is around $5.9 million, so if we kept the cap holds for our pick, Oubre and Holmes, that basically wipes out our cap space.

We could maybe sign him for the room MLE after free agency, but I'm not a cap expert so I don't know all the rules on all of this, so I'm kind of just guessing based on my limited knowledge.

Thanks. Do you know if other teams can sign him for more then his option would have been?

[LukasBMW]

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/comments/axnzpr/phoenix_suns_2019_cap_space_scenarios/

I'm offering NOP our pick (unless top 2) + JJ + Tyler Johnson + the bucks pick for Jrue.

Then, even if we keep Oubre and Holmes, that gives us $16.2 mil in cap space to add a power forward. (Or 17.8 to add a power forward/center if we waive Holmes).

That's ideal.

I wonder if 16.2m would be enough to grab Julius Randle? We'd be stacked and ridiculously versatile.

Jrue
Book/Bridges
Oubre
TJ/Randle
Ayton/Holmes

[LukasBMW]

Would anyone deal Warren for Brogdon (S&T)?

Helps us remove some salary in order to pay Brogdon a lot of money and also prevents the Bucks from matching if we were to take a chance on signing him to an offer sheet.

No need to stretch Johnson then

I love TJ, but I'd trade TJ and our pick (as long as it is not top 2) for Brogdon in a S&T. He's exactly what we need. Him or Jrue.

[King4Day]

Would anyone deal Warren for Brogdon (S&T)?

Helps us remove some salary in order to pay Brogdon a lot of money and also prevents the Bucks from matching if we were to take a chance on signing him to an offer sheet.

No need to stretch Johnson then

I love TJ, but I'd trade TJ and our pick (as long as it is not top 2) for Brogdon in a S&T. He's exactly what we need. Him or Jrue.

It would have to be a heavily protected pick IMO. If we're going to overpay for him, why give up more than a player who can actually help the Bucks? Especially when they've already paid Bledsoe an extension and will run into cap issues.

I think Warren for Brogdon straight up is fair. I'd throw in their own pick back if that will move the needle.

[bwgood77]

Anybody know?

I think we can sign him for what his option would have been, but in order to do so after going over the cap (with Bird rights), we would have to retain his cap hold, which is around $5.9 million, so if we kept the cap holds for our pick, Oubre and Holmes, that basically wipes out our cap space.

We could maybe sign him for the room MLE after free agency, but I'm not a cap expert so I don't know all the rules on all of this, so I'm kind of just guessing based on my limited knowledge.

Thanks. Do you know if other teams can sign him for more then his option would have been?

Yes, I think they can. We basically made him an UFA but couldn't circumvent his rookie salary scale by declining and signing him for more now.