Joel Embiid - The Prophecy is Realized

[kingofthecourt67]

How about taking out Ben also as well. Simmons was so negative in the Boston series last year. And it was Horford defending Simmons most of the time. It was tj who was more effective. Since the sorta of have respect tj dribble penetration and pull up 15 foot jumper. Simmons they just ignore him and sag off into the paint.

There must be some alternative universe I must have been in... because this continual insistence that he had a "bad series" against the Celtics and that they stopped him that I keep seeing pop up all the time... isn't actually supported by fact.

Ben had 1 bad game the entire 5 game series where he scored 1 point that seems to be the only game everyone remembers. In the other 4 games he scored 18,16, 19 and 18. Above his average for the season and at 51% shooting. Also averaged 9 rebounds and 6 assists in those 4 games.

If that's Ben being "shut down" by Boston and a negative for the entire series then I can't wait to see him when he is a "positive".

Yup. Must be. Because he absolutely was bad in that series. Him scoring in the teens for a handful of games doesn't really change that. The Celtics turned him into an offensive liability.

Yep. Also conveniently leaves out TOs. He was outplayed by TJ. If we played TJ over him, I think we have a chance to win the series. And that’s okay, he’s young. It’s okay for him to struggle in that situation.

[kuclas]

The sixers need embiid back. They are barely winning games after all star break. Winning. Yes. 4-2 without him. But long term success depends on him. Honestly it’s not the 27 points. It’s his defense that’s so essential to the team. They got away with vuc not being able to score against smaller butler/Scott tonight. But it’s not gonna to last. As evident against Portland and gsw were those bigs had their way.

[Simmons25]

There must be some alternative universe I must have been in... because this continual insistence that he had a "bad series" against the Celtics and that they stopped him that I keep seeing pop up all the time... isn't actually supported by fact.

Ben had 1 bad game the entire 5 game series where he scored 1 point that seems to be the only game everyone remembers. In the other 4 games he scored 18,16, 19 and 18. Above his average for the season and at 51% shooting. Also averaged 9 rebounds and 6 assists in those 4 games.

If that's Ben being "shut down" by Boston and a negative for the entire series then I can't wait to see him when he is a "positive".

Yup. Must be. Because he absolutely was bad in that series. Him scoring in the teens for a handful of games doesn't really change that. The Celtics turned him into an offensive liability.

Yep. Also conveniently leaves out TOs. He was outplayed by TJ. If we played TJ over him, I think we have a chance to win the series. And that’s okay, he’s young. It’s okay for him to struggle in that situation.

I didn't "conveniently" leave out turnovers but if you really want to go there he averaged 1.7 more turnovers a game in the Boston series than over the entire regular season. In fact he only averaged under 2 more turnovers a game over Joel Embiid in that series... and Ben was the main ball handler and the distributer. Hardly earth shattering stats.

And yes... definitely outplayed by TJ. TJ averaged 22 minutes per game in the playoffs averaging 8 pts and only 3.6 assists against a team that not only didn't even plan for him but probably didn't even see him out there. TJ had only 1 good game... Ben had 1 bad game... and it just goes to show you how short people's memories are that both of those games are remembered for the entire series.

[kingofthecourt67]

Yup. Must be. Because he absolutely was bad in that series. Him scoring in the teens for a handful of games doesn't really change that. The Celtics turned him into an offensive liability.

Yep. Also conveniently leaves out TOs. He was outplayed by TJ. If we played TJ over him, I think we have a chance to win the series. And that’s okay, he’s young. It’s okay for him to struggle in that situation.

I didn't "conveniently" leave out turnovers but if you really want to go there he averaged 1.7 more turnovers a game in the Boston series than over the entire regular season. In fact he only averaged under 2 more turnovers a game over Joel Embiid in that series... and Ben was the main ball handler and the distributer. Hardly earth shattering stats.

And yes... definitely outplayed by TJ. TJ averaged 22 minutes per game in the playoffs averaging 8 pts and only 3.6 assists against a team that not only didn't even plan for him but probably didn't even see him out there. TJ had only 1 good game... Ben had 1 bad game... and it just goes to show you how short people's memories are that both of those games are remembered for the entire series.

Ahh yes, pretty sure I’ve had this discussion with you before. To keep it short, I suggest watching the entirety of the games rather than just focusing on Ben Simmons. I don’t need numbers thrown at me and conveniently spun because it was obvious to anybody watching that TJ played better.

[Simmons25]

Yep. Also conveniently leaves out TOs. He was outplayed by TJ. If we played TJ over him, I think we have a chance to win the series. And that’s okay, he’s young. It’s okay for him to struggle in that situation.

I didn't "conveniently" leave out turnovers but if you really want to go there he averaged 1.7 more turnovers a game in the Boston series than over the entire regular season. In fact he only averaged under 2 more turnovers a game over Joel Embiid in that series... and Ben was the main ball handler and the distributer. Hardly earth shattering stats.

And yes... definitely outplayed by TJ. TJ averaged 22 minutes per game in the playoffs averaging 8 pts and only 3.6 assists against a team that not only didn't even plan for him but probably didn't even see him out there. TJ had only 1 good game... Ben had 1 bad game... and it just goes to show you how short people's memories are that both of those games are remembered for the entire series.

Ahh yes, pretty sure I’ve had this discussion with you before. To keep it short, I suggest watching the entirety of the games rather than just focusing on Ben Simmons. I don’t need numbers thrown at me and conveniently spun because it was obvious to anybody watching that TJ played better.

Of course.. resorting to the old "you don't know basketball you only watch Ben Simmons rubbish" instead of actually presenting an argument.

Ben did not get "shut down" the entire series. The stats proved it. He was at his average for most of that series except for 1 game. It doesn't matter what it "looked like". You've just a prisoner of the moment in a series where someone was looking for a scapegoat and had a whole off-season of Celtics fans trolling over his 1 point game to get reminded of it.

[Bum Adebayo]

This Ben hate has gone too far really.

[kingofthecourt67]

I didn't "conveniently" leave out turnovers but if you really want to go there he averaged 1.7 more turnovers a game in the Boston series than over the entire regular season. In fact he only averaged under 2 more turnovers a game over Joel Embiid in that series... and Ben was the main ball handler and the distributer. Hardly earth shattering stats.

And yes... definitely outplayed by TJ. TJ averaged 22 minutes per game in the playoffs averaging 8 pts and only 3.6 assists against a team that not only didn't even plan for him but probably didn't even see him out there. TJ had only 1 good game... Ben had 1 bad game... and it just goes to show you how short people's memories are that both of those games are remembered for the entire series.

Ahh yes, pretty sure I’ve had this discussion with you before. To keep it short, I suggest watching the entirety of the games rather than just focusing on Ben Simmons. I don’t need numbers thrown at me and conveniently spun because it was obvious to anybody watching that TJ played better.

Of course.. resorting to the old "you don't know basketball you only watch Ben Simmons rubbish" instead of actually presenting an argument.

Ben did not get "shut down" the entire series. The stats proved it. He was at his average for most of that series except for 1 game. It doesn't matter what it "looked like". You've just a prisoner of the moment in a series where someone was looking for a scapegoat and had a whole off-season of Celtics fans trolling over his 1 point game to get reminded of it.

How am I a "prisoner of the moment" if I have been saying this for 10 months after the end of the playoff series? To quantify a bit what was pretty apparent from the series...Let me know who you think player 1 and player 2 are respectively.

+/- of games 1-5 in order:
Player 1: -21, -23, -11, +5, -13
Player 2: +5, +16, -1, +18, +3

Off rating/Def rating against the Celtics
Player 1: 98.9/115.7
Player 2: 109.8/91.9

My argument isn't rubbish if you keep citing ppg and saying they're close to his season average while ignoring a pretty apparent negative impact he had on that series. Not all 15 point games are the same. He was a liability against the Celtics. That does not mean I am a Ben Simmons hater or think we should trade him or that he will never lead us to a championship. It simply is what it is.

[youngcrev]

This Ben hate has gone too far really.

It's not "Ben hate" to say he was bad in the series against Boston. I've got nothing but love for the guy. Now... Some of his overzealous fans are another story.

[Bum Adebayo]

This Ben hate has gone too far really.

It's not "Ben hate" to say he was bad in the series against Boston. I've got nothing but love for the guy. Now... Some of his overzealous fans are another story.

He played well overall, his 1pt game was an anomally, and +/- stats are useless and don't reflect the reality of what happened. So it is a narrative at this point that he was bad.

[kuclas]

This Ben hate has gone too far really.

It's not "Ben hate" to say he was bad in the series against Boston. I've got nothing but love for the guy. Now... Some of his overzealous fans are another story.

He played well overall, his 1pt game was an anomally, and +/- stats are useless and don't reflect the reality of what happened. So it is a narrative at this point that he was bad.

There are tons of spacing issues with Celtics when Ben is in the game. They sag off him. Almost a defacto double team on embiid. Even this year. When u watch the game tape. Simmons man sags off. Simmons tries to move to the opposite post area as embiid. That doesn’t help either.

Than embiid get the ball in the mid post 15 feet away from the basket trying to back down Horford. It’s just not an effective game plan. Part of it is on embiid. He needs to establish low post position deep and faster.

Part of it is brett brown coaching style.

But part of it is Simmons spacing issue.

It’s a freaking mess.

I don’t like to see embiid get the ball so far out. Waste shot clock time. His options are drop off handoff to Reddick or try to back down Horford and he’s slow at that. But with Simmons not a threat to shoot Celtics help defense is aided for cheat man over if embiid gets too low in the post.

[Ben Simmons]

You need to change your location. Now it's just "Ben Simmons". It should be "Ben Simmons dick".

i wish

LOL... So you're a female poster?

yeah same as half the world, not a big deal to be a female poster

[kuclas]

So if embiid is out tonight and “may travel with the team” Friday to Houston.

I’m just hoping to have him back by Sunday vs Indiana.

Nothing would surprise me at this point.

[youngcrev]

This Ben hate has gone too far really.

It's not "Ben hate" to say he was bad in the series against Boston. I've got nothing but love for the guy. Now... Some of his overzealous fans are another story.

He played well overall, his 1pt game was an anomally, and +/- stats are useless and don't reflect the reality of what happened. So it is a narrative at this point that he was bad.

I disagree. The +/- was pretty reflective of what I saw out there. Most of the board was pissed at Brett for bringing him back in the for TJ in that one game down the stretch. Bad decision in terms of trying to win the game, but I'm assuming he was looking at it as a potential growth moment for Ben. They were able to take away the transition game, played way off him in the half court and then stayed home on shooters when he got in the paint and just played him straight up.

Feels like he's worked a ton on his post game this year to help combat that. Still could be an issue if Horford is on him.

[gdog2004]

The sixers need embiid back. They are barely winning games after all star break. Winning. Yes. 4-2 without him. But long term success depends on him. Honestly it’s not the 27 points. It’s his defense that’s so essential to the team. They got away with vuc not being able to score against smaller butler/Scott tonight. But it’s not gonna to last. As evident against Portland and gsw were those bigs had their way.

I am PRO Embiid always but Vucevic kills Embiid almost every-time they play.

[gdog2004]

Ahh yes, pretty sure I’ve had this discussion with you before. To keep it short, I suggest watching the entirety of the games rather than just focusing on Ben Simmons. I don’t need numbers thrown at me and conveniently spun because it was obvious to anybody watching that TJ played better.

Of course.. resorting to the old "you don't know basketball you only watch Ben Simmons rubbish" instead of actually presenting an argument.

Ben did not get "shut down" the entire series. The stats proved it. He was at his average for most of that series except for 1 game. It doesn't matter what it "looked like". You've just a prisoner of the moment in a series where someone was looking for a scapegoat and had a whole off-season of Celtics fans trolling over his 1 point game to get reminded of it.

How am I a "prisoner of the moment" if I have been saying this for 10 months after the end of the playoff series? To quantify a bit what was pretty apparent from the series...Let me know who you think player 1 and player 2 are respectively.

+/- of games 1-5 in order:
Player 1: -21, -23, -11, +5, -13
Player 2: +5, +16, -1, +18, +3

Off rating/Def rating against the Celtics
Player 1: 98.9/115.7
Player 2: 109.8/91.9

My argument isn't rubbish if you keep citing ppg and saying they're close to his season average while ignoring a pretty apparent negative impact he had on that series. Not all 15 point games are the same. He was a liability against the Celtics. That does not mean I am a Ben Simmons hater or think we should trade him or that he will never lead us to a championship. It simply is what it is.

You are 100% right. This is what I hate about stats...guys can cherry pick a few things and say "SEE _____ played pretty well.."
Anyone with eyes can see the Celtics give Ben fits. He and Robert Covington(another stat warrior) were the reason they lost to the Celtics. I love Simmons and want him to be a Sixer forever(assuming he puts in work to improve) but his ineffectiveness is a big reason they lost. The Celtics and the Raptors prevent Ben from being Ben.

[kuclas]

The eye test also says embiid holds the ball too long. Should be less than 5 seconds. If he can’t get an advantage pass it back out. Or stop dribbling against Boston. Boston eggs him on knowing he has tunnel vision.

[Bum Adebayo]

And eggs him on knowing he can't beat Horford. Needs to get past that if he wants to be in that MVP conversation as he said.

[thenbaman]

He can beat hortford,lol

[kingofthecourt67]

This Ben hate has gone too far really.

It's not "Ben hate" to say he was bad in the series against Boston. I've got nothing but love for the guy. Now... Some of his overzealous fans are another story.

He played well overall, his 1pt game was an anomally, and +/- stats are useless and don't reflect the reality of what happened. So it is a narrative at this point that he was bad.

Don’t reflect reality based on what?

[phillynative]

This Embiid vs Horford reminds me of when Shaq played against Hakeem in his earlier years with orlando. Horford and Hakeem have similar physical and the defensive IQ. Hakeem had that same mixture as Horford . The strong lower body strength to hold off the post up , the length to still contest the shot and the veteran savy to know when how to defend. Hakeem bated Shaq the same way Horford does Joel. It's up to Embiid to know when to post up and when not to. As Shaq gained more experience he learned how to drop step, spin and turn around hook around strong veteran defenders like Hakeem.

Embiid is not as strong or athletic as Shaq was but he's just as big and more offensively versatile. I think it would save him some energy if he used his length more with spot ups and faceups when the post is too crowded or isn't working for him.