Taurean Prince

jayu70 · Post #461 » by **jayu70** » Wed Mar 6, 2019 5:55 pm

graymule wrote::D

And, he is now a father. More reason to do well!!

CONGRATULATIONS !

For the 2nd time. He has a daughter too, maybe around 3 years.

graymule · Post #462 » by **graymule** » Wed Mar 6, 2019 6:04 pm

jayu70 wrote:
graymule wrote::D

And, he is now a father. More reason to do well!!

CONGRATULATIONS !

For the 2nd time. He has a daughter too, maybe around 3 years.

One of each !!

:nod:

Post #463 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:10 pm

From The Athletic (abridged):

Q: Is Taurean Prince a part of the Hawks’ future? Before this season, he was a main option. Now, he appears to be an afterthought.

A: This is one of the big questions heading into the offseason. Prince is eligible for a rookie extension this summer. If he doesn’t get an extension, he’ll play out next season before being a restricted free agent in 2020. Prince’s shooting numbers are slightly up almost across the board when you.

The problem is his defense. The Hawks are better defensively when he’s not on the floor. According to Cleaning The Glass, the Hawks’ five most used combos with Prince in them all have a double-digit negative rating. Travis Schlenk said the Hawks partly drafted Prince as a stopper on defense. He hasn’t been that this season.

Prince is also 25 years old. He’s “old” for his draft class. What we know about Prince right now is the Hawks tried shopping him before the trade deadline. I expect the team will make some calls in the offseason, especially around the draft, and see what they can get in return for Prince.

I’d be very surprised if he got a rookie extension this offseason.

Atlantaholic · Post #464 » by **Atlantaholic** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:06 am

Yea, as the article that was posted states the problem with Taurean is his defense. His value on offense is basically that of a 3-D guy, but without the D you are just left with a player that isn't good enough offensively to justify a significant role on a good team. It's strange because it seemed like a given during his rookie year that he would develop into a great defender. Being 25 and a three year veteran, it seems unlikely he can turn around that part of his game to the point where we are gonna need it to be. I'd say move on.

King Ken · Post #465 » by **King Ken** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 am

Atlantaholic wrote:Yea, as the article that was posted states the problem with Taurean is his defense. His value on offense is basically that of a 3-D guy, but without the D you are just left with a player that isn't good enough offensively to justify a significant role on a good team. It's strange because it seemed like a given during his rookie year that he would develop into a great defender. Being 25 and a three year veteran, it seems unlikely he can turn around that part of his game to the point where we are gonna need it to be. I'd say move on.

His defensive improvement has been much better since ASB but TP always seems to have these big leaps around this time of the year. Next year, he needs to do it from beginning to end.

shakes0 · Post #466 » by **shakes0** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:49 am

sometimes I find myself daydreaming of a day in the hopefully not too distant future when I never have to see this ball hogging selfish clown suit up for the Hawks ever again.

observer1995 · Post #467 » by **observer1995** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:38 am

shakes0 wrote:sometimes I find myself daydreaming of a day in the hopefully not too distant future when I never have to see this ball hogging selfish clown suit up for the Hawks ever again.

I think he gets traded this offseason, and what's interesting is his value is still somehow decent but most of us clearly don't see it. I kinda think you can get close to similar value to what was gotten with Teague, especially if you get into a three team deal, which means...hello another 19th pick potentially lol!

Nathan2331 · Post #468 » by **Nathan2331** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:23 am

What do y'all think of Prince and maybe the Cleveland pick for Monte Morris and the Nuggets first?

jayu70 · Post #469 » by **jayu70** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:21 am

Nathan2331 wrote:What do y'all think of Prince and maybe the Cleveland pick for Monte Morris and the Nuggets first?

Nuggets don't have their 2019 1st, traded it to Brooklyn in the Faried trade.

shakes0 · Post #470 » by **shakes0** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:52 pm

Nathan2331 wrote:What do y'all think of Prince and maybe the Cleveland pick for Monte Morris and the Nuggets first?

Why would Denver trade either of those pieces straight up for Prince, let alone both of them? Morris is lightyears better than Prince. And there isn't a team in the league that would give up a 1st rounder for this bum.

If anyone offered a 2nd rounder for Prince I would take that and run before that team smartened up and changed their mind.

Nathan2331 · Post #471 » by **Nathan2331** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:55 pm

shakes0 wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:What do y'all think of Prince and maybe the Cleveland pick for Monte Morris and the Nuggets first?

Why would Denver trade either of those pieces straight up for Prince, let alone both of them? Morris is lightyears better than Prince. And there isn't a team in the league that would give up a 1st rounder for this bum.

If anyone offered a 2nd rounder for Prince I would take that and run before that team smartened up and changed their mind.

As much as you don't like Prince, he's a SF with size that is a near 40% shooter from 3 and plays decent defense. I think that's more valuable than a steady backup PG.

kg01 · Post #472 » by **kg01** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:07 pm

Nathan2331 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:What do y'all think of Prince and maybe the Cleveland pick for Monte Morris and the Nuggets first?

Why would Denver trade either of those pieces straight up for Prince, let alone both of them? Morris is lightyears better than Prince. And there isn't a team in the league that would give up a 1st rounder for this bum.

If anyone offered a 2nd rounder for Prince I would take that and run before that team smartened up and changed their mind.
As much as you don't like Prince, he's a SF with size that is a near 40% shooter from 3 and plays decent defense. I think that's more valuable than a steady backup PG.

Yeah. @shakes, don't mistaken his bad play (for us) with him being a bad player. To me, his poor play is more a sign of role issues. Meaning he's not fitting into the role that's been defined for him.

Seems to be falling back into the 'get mine' disease that plagued him early on. On a playoff team, I think he'd be great in the role they'd need him to be in. Less shots, better defense - that's where he needs to be at.

We don't have the structure to force him into that. A place like DEN does since they have more established "stars" ahead of him. Here, he probably thinks he's on a higher rung on the ladder than he actually is.

I think a change of scenery would do him a world of good. I can see a lot of GM's having a similar line of thinking.

REHawksFan · Post #473 » by **REHawksFan** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:10 pm

Nathan2331 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:What do y'all think of Prince and maybe the Cleveland pick for Monte Morris and the Nuggets first?

Why would Denver trade either of those pieces straight up for Prince, let alone both of them? Morris is lightyears better than Prince. And there isn't a team in the league that would give up a 1st rounder for this bum.

If anyone offered a 2nd rounder for Prince I would take that and run before that team smartened up and changed their mind.
As much as you don't like Prince, he's a SF with size that is a near 40% shooter from 3 and plays decent defense. I think that's more valuable than a steady backup PG.

Out of 170 players in the entire NBA that have averaged 25+ min/game this year, Taurean Prince ranks:

138th in Defensive Rating at 114
149th in Defensive Win Shares at 0.7
132nd in Defensive Plus Minus at -1.4

He doesn't play decent defense.

Nathan2331 · Post #474 » by **Nathan2331** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:12 pm

REHawksFan wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:

Why would Denver trade either of those pieces straight up for Prince, let alone both of them? Morris is lightyears better than Prince. And there isn't a team in the league that would give up a 1st rounder for this bum.

If anyone offered a 2nd rounder for Prince I would take that and run before that team smartened up and changed their mind.
As much as you don't like Prince, he's a SF with size that is a near 40% shooter from 3 and plays decent defense. I think that's more valuable than a steady backup PG.

Out of 170 players in the entire NBA that have averaged 25+ min/game this year, Taurean Prince ranks:

138th in Defensive Rating at 114
149th in Defensive Win Shares at 0.7
132nd in Defensive Plus Minus at -1.4

He doesn't play decent defense.

So do you think Monte Morris is more valuable because I don't.

observer1995 · Post #475 » by **observer1995** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:13 pm

shakes0 wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:What do y'all think of Prince and maybe the Cleveland pick for Monte Morris and the Nuggets first?

Why would Denver trade either of those pieces straight up for Prince, let alone both of them? Morris is lightyears better than Prince. And there isn't a team in the league that would give up a 1st rounder for this bum.

If anyone offered a 2nd rounder for Prince I would take that and run before that team smartened up and changed their mind.

You'll be surprised. For some outsiders, they may very well still see him as a more valuable piece than Trae because of how he looks (6'8" wing that has a good defensive rep, albeit undeserved, and is a great shooter), although that's definitely incorrect if you dive in. Even some outsiders that do buy Trae think that Taurean is a very good piece.

I think his value is slightly less than Teague, which would mean you can get into a 3 team deal and get a decent pick.

REHawksFan · Post #476 » by **REHawksFan** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:24 pm

Nathan2331 wrote:
REHawksFan wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:As much as you don't like Prince, he's a SF with size that is a near 40% shooter from 3 and plays decent defense. I think that's more valuable than a steady backup PG.

Out of 170 players in the entire NBA that have averaged 25+ min/game this year, Taurean Prince ranks:

138th in Defensive Rating at 114
149th in Defensive Win Shares at 0.7
132nd in Defensive Plus Minus at -1.4

He doesn't play decent defense.
So do you think Monte Morris is more valuable because I don't.

I haven't said a word about Monte Morris. To be honest, I haven't watched enough of him to make any determination. I have watched nearly all of Taurean Prince this year though so I feel pretty confident about my opinion of him.

Here's another note on his defense:

The lineup of Trae / Huerter / Prince / Collins / Dedmon has given up 124.2 pts / 100 poss this year.

IF you take Prince out and put in Bembry, the defensive rating drops to 121.7 pts / 100 poss.
IF you take Prince out and put in Baze, the defensive rating drops to 107.5 pts / 100 poss.

So TP simply doesn't work with the rest of the guys defensively to the tune of they are 16.7 pts / 100 poss WORSE with him on the court compared to Baze.

benhillboy · Post #477 » by **benhillboy** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:47 pm

Only Omari has a worse on court +- per 100 than TP. He may be the worse offensive rebounder at the 3 in the league. He’s missed 24 games yet his absence is never felt. And I’ll still admit that his raw numbers look damn good (13-4-2-1, .541 efg) for the relative peanuts he’s making (2.5 milly).

I’m confident TP isn’t in Schlenk’s future plans and said GM will find a sound way to upgrade the wings. I just can’t take much more of his painfully unathletic drives into the lane when Bembry is dunking backwards and pinning shots to the glass, regardless of his numerous nut-ups.

shakes0 · Post #478 » by **shakes0** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:00 pm

kg01 wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:
shakes0 wrote:
Why would Denver trade either of those pieces straight up for Prince, let alone both of them? Morris is lightyears better than Prince. And there isn't a team in the league that would give up a 1st rounder for this bum.

If anyone offered a 2nd rounder for Prince I would take that and run before that team smartened up and changed their mind.
As much as you don't like Prince, he's a SF with size that is a near 40% shooter from 3 and plays decent defense. I think that's more valuable than a steady backup PG.

Yeah. @shakes, don't mistaken his bad play (for us) with him being a bad player. To me, his poor play is more a sign of role issues. Meaning he's not fitting into the role that's been defined for him.

Seems to be falling back into the 'get mine' disease that plagued him early on. On a playoff team, I think he'd be great in the role they'd need him to be in. Less shots, better defense - that's where he needs to be at.

We don't have the structure to force him into that. A place like DEN does since they have more established "stars" ahead of him. Here, he probably thinks he's on a higher rung on the ladder than he actually is.

I think a change of scenery would do him a world of good. I can see a lot of GM's having a similar line of thinking.

Fair enough, maybe on a winning team he can find a role. But, with his talent level being what it is, how much of a role would that be? At best he's a bottom of the 2nd unit type of player. Personally, I don't see him as being good enough to be a rotation player on any playoff team.

He's definitely not worth a first round pick or a player like Monta Morris though. Might be able to get a 2nd rounder for him, but that's all I see.

shakes0 · Post #479 » by **shakes0** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:04 pm

Nathan2331 wrote:
REHawksFan wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:As much as you don't like Prince, he's a SF with size that is a near 40% shooter from 3 and plays decent defense. I think that's more valuable than a steady backup PG.

Out of 170 players in the entire NBA that have averaged 25+ min/game this year, Taurean Prince ranks:

138th in Defensive Rating at 114
149th in Defensive Win Shares at 0.7
132nd in Defensive Plus Minus at -1.4

He doesn't play decent defense.
So do you think Monte Morris is more valuable because I don't.

Is a quality back up PG who is currently doing a great job in that role for one of the best teams in the league more valuable than a selfish chucker who isn't even good enough to play for Atlanta? Is that a serious question? :lol:

What does Prince do better than Morris on a basketball court?

Nathan2331 · Post #480 » by **Nathan2331** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:44 pm

shakes0 wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:
REHawksFan wrote:
Out of 170 players in the entire NBA that have averaged 25+ min/game this year, Taurean Prince ranks:

138th in Defensive Rating at 114
149th in Defensive Win Shares at 0.7
132nd in Defensive Plus Minus at -1.4

He doesn't play decent defense.
So do you think Monte Morris is more valuable because I don't.

Is a quality back up PG who is currently doing a great job in that role for one of the best teams in the league more valuable than a selfish chucker who isn't even good enough to play for Atlanta? Is that a serious question?

What does Prince do better than Morris on a basketball court?

Play SF, which has more positional value in the NBA. They already have Murray, it'd be easier for them to sign a back up PG to replace Morris' minutes than it would be to sign a starting SF. I'm not disputing Prince's questionable impact.