Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[thebuzzardman]

Anyway, even though I had a laugh at 5 pages based on a retardo article, here I am.

Here's the easy move for the rest of the year:

Play Frank at backup SF for about 24 mpg.
Knox has hit a wall.
They've evaluated Knox at around 30 mpg + ALL SEASON
Knox kind of sucks right now
Knox could use a rest
The Knick's other SF's suck, aren't under contract and probably have less trade value than pessimistic takes on Frank: (Mario/LFT)

DSJr/Mudiay
Trier/Dotson
Knox/Frank
etc

If the team considerings him a wing, the difference in the 2 wing and 3 wing isn't that pronounced, on offense. Then they can have Frank guard whoever they want, though obviously he probably guards the 3 or 2. Just depends on who else is out there with him and the other team.

Actually, now that Fizzle has changed his defensive "philosophy" for like, at LEAST, the 3rd time, the Knicks are switching a LOT on the perimeter, so Frank playing 3 or 4 is probably his best chance to guard a PG, since I think I've seen Vonleh and Mitch D up PG's more than Mudiay or Smith - because of all the switching.

[Knicks Byke]

Plz don’t get suckered by this fake news. Look at the words in the article. Nothing god substance just speculation.

You just don’t want to change your SN again

omg

[Nazrmohamed]

There's 2 guys who are inconsistent offensively and not great playmakers.

One of those guys plays defense.

I'll keep the guy who plays defense and is a good team player as opposed to the legendary Dennis "poor man's Steve Francis" Smith Jr.

I love Frank to death but think that ship has sailed. I just dont understand why he cant just be pencilled in as the backup Pg. Why have this guy moving to every position on the court. You are who you can defend and I'd almost rather just submit to the fact that hes not a starter.....but still a guard than all this SF, PF talk.

[Nazrmohamed]

what's max we can get? top 25 pick?

I'd take that in a heartbeat and it's not cuz I dont like Frank. It's not about what I like. I can like Herzonia, point is if coach and FO doesnt might as well take that value and you never know who drops. What if Kevin Porter Jr drops and now you're looking at Smith and Porter Jr in a backcourt where you've already drafted Zion, RJ or Reddish?

[matchman]

Click bait.

[Fat Kat]

There's 2 guys who are inconsistent offensively and not great playmakers.

One of those guys plays defense.

I'll keep the guy who plays defense and is a good team player as opposed to the legendary Dennis "poor man's Steve Francis" Smith Jr.

I love Frank to death but think that ship has sailed. I just dont understand why he cant just be pencilled in as the backup Pg. Why have this guy moving to every position on the court. You are who you can defend and I'd almost rather just submit to the fact that hes not a starter.....but still a guard than all this SF, PF talk.

Probably because he has a hard time penetrating and has a shaky handle. Frank handles the rock like a wing and shoots like a big. The staff is likely trying to find the best place for his skill set.

[camillepd]

I think Spurs pick Frank up if he's available. The Spurs have 2 late first round picks and I think they give 1 up for Frank. Pop may think he can develop Frank into another Kawhi.

[Fat]

Jarrett jack
Trey Burke
Emanuel mudiay
Alonzo trier
Dennis Smith
Ron baker
Ramon sesssions

All whom have became a priority before Ntilkina and if your Ntilkina that’s not a good look. Y’all think this kid will last here? LOL he most likely will be riding the bench again next year once RJ barret puts his foot through the door if frank even makes it that far.

Ntilkina expections went from batum to George hill to wishing he can become half the player doston is.

I’d hate to see him go because this team is so trash at defense but at the same time I wouldn’t lose no sleep over it

[Fat Kat]

They’re probably envisioning a Andre Roberson role for Frank.

[Jalen Bluntson]

No quotes from team? ✔
No actual sources? ✔
Pure speculation? ✔

Typical Berman clickbait that people should know better than to run with.Trash on trash on trash!

[j4remi]

If they're not gonna give him a consistent role or put effort into developing him, get value while you can. Let him go somewhere the coach will value defensive play.

[NYKHardKnock]

If Frank is traded it’s in a huge package for AD

[WargamesX]

Berman?

Berman knows nothing. When was the last time his rumors turned out true?

[thebuzzardman]

So. I like Frank. I like players who play defense. Defense is important. Obviously it's only 1/2 the game, just like offense. Still, I like players who know their role, stay in it, tend not to hurt the team, and play defense while doing that.

Since the topic is new and has enough eyes, I figure I'll go on a little bit about the roster construction in general and the team moving forward.

The anti Frank crowd has some points. The pro Frank crowd has some points. The sober majority in the middle has points. Frank has use if he's retained. He has use if he's traded.

NOTE: All "positive" Frank statements and takes moving forward assume he acquires a consistent jumper. Frank without a useful jumper is nearly as useless as Knox, just in an inverse way. Obviously, since both are young guys who are projects, it sort of makes sense to let them go through 3 full seasons, since that would put them at approximately 22 years old. Since guys are on a team for 4 years as a rookie, there's an opportunity to assess them that long before cutting bait and getting something.
Obviously, it's not completely wrong to make the assessment after 1 or 2 years either

Also, there are obvious scenarios where clearing the salary spot could matter and that applies to every Knick making between 3.5 and 6 million - whatever all the young guys are making.

So, Frank has use,probably not starting, with a jumper, as long as the other guard can attack the rim. Obviously it would be better if Frank could learn to do that more, but just taking what he can do now and adding a jumper. Trier is a guy who can do that. DSJr can do that. Irving could do that. That isn't advocating for keeping Frank INSTEAD of those guys, just that he could play X amount of minutes next to guys like that. Since he's hands down the teams best perimeter defender (sorry Dot) - that's worth keeping. Sure, you can say "Dotson defends and hits 3's" but I don't think it makes Frank automatically expendable then. But between Dot and Kadeem, sure, the Knicks could move Frank. Since Frank defends as well as Kadeem at age 20, it might be worth exploring if he can bring his offense to the "Kadeem" level by age 22. BUT Kadeem costs nearly nothing and Frank costs 5 million, so if it's the difference between adding some "youngish" frontcourt guy who isn't a complete stiff, then yeah, send Frank packing. Or Knox.

Obviously the team was looking for guards who could attack downhill more, as it's not a Frank strength. It doesn't mean that don't think he'll ever do it. Or maybe it does. I think it's the trait they most want in a PG (well, gee, doesn't most of the league?) so they tried iterative versions - Burke, then Mudiay, then DSJr. Honestly, why they even bother with Mudiay when, in a sense, they have the "much better version" in DSJr, I don't know. BTW, that's not knocking DSJr - it's just if that getting to the rim, creating own shot, some athleticism and some floor vision is what you look for in a PG - then DSJr has that all over Mudiay, all day, every day. And while DSJr is only "ok" defensively, he's NOTICEABLY better than Mudiay.

Anyway, here's why Frank would be a solid keeper. It's also why it's ok to trade him, as long as a similar player comes back.

What's the NBA mostly about? Talent. And generally, that talent is concentrated in two, maybe 3 players on the team. Sure, the bench can't SUCK, but most winning teams have the higher end talent in a couple of guys, generally guys who can create for themselves and others (at least one of them) and then have quality role players around them.

What's a quality role player?
Well, since the NBA isn't a perfect world and there isn't an unlimited supply of talented players OR the right kind of role players, teams will compromise. For instance, they might have a big man who's all defense but pretty bad on offense. Some of those guys even get large paydays. And then go on to become dbag right wing politicians. Anyhoo, other teams decide to roll with a role player who can pick and roll, but not defend anything. Say hello to Ene Kanter and WHG. Or maybe a guard who scores, but doesn't defend. Like Trey Burke.

The smart teams don't blow too much money on limited players. They also seem to be able to locate and value role players who:
Defend
Stay in their lane in terms of scheme
Move the ball (even if not for assists!!!!!)
Make jumpers (mostly)
Don't give away too many f*cking plays.

Every player has lapses. Mitch falls asleep on P&R's. DSJr lolligags it here and there. Frank overplays a guy who goes right around him. Or gets lost in a P&R too. And so on. And EVERY player gets beat when a times the offensive player just makes the better play over good defense. A good team wants it's players putting maximum defensive effort all game because of the odds of it working out eventually, plus the CUMULATIVE effect later in the game. See, Riley, Pat, Knicks.
What good teams have is players that aren't just giving possessions away and not players who give possessions away on both offense and defense every game.

You know why I don't like Mudiay, THJr, Burke (to an extent), Current version of Knox?
These are players who give away possessions, literally just give them away, on BOTH sides of the ball. At least 4 per game. Minimum.
They also, to varying degrees, aren't that great at moving the ball, either.

BTW, Frank gives away possessions too, right now, by brickings shots. At least he's solid taking care of the ball, can pass a little, and will move it.
Hey, I just described LFT. The difference is, Frank feels less inclined to wilfully toss away offensive possessions like LFT does.
Enes Kanter could have made the list, but generally was efficient on offense, didn't put up "that's a horrible possession" shot too often. Since he was absolute sieve on defense, he gets honorable mention.

Anyway, if I think the Knicks are going to be able to land a couple of gifted players, I'll take another year to see if Frank gets a jumper. If he does, he's worth 24 valuable mpg. Which is "ok" picking at 8th. Could've been better, there's lots worse picks there too. If stays the same, he has continued value at 10-15 mpg as a perimeter stopper. Disappointing, but hey. Would move him easily in right deal or after rookie deal is up in 2 years.

Most interesting scenario? If moving Frank frees money enough money to fit Danny Green on the team in a "win now" scenario? Yeah. I'd do that.

Better yet? If Frank could get moved for Brandon Clark in the draft, who has a lot of the same attributes but at PF/SF instead? I'd drive Frank to the airport.

So, a lot of these various Frank takes in the forum are on point. Sure would be nice if some of them were less obnoxious, but hey, it's RealGM Knicks!

[thebuzzardman]

So, another Berman sh*t stirring article, but because it's Frank, got you all to go 5 pages deep in comment eh?

If I was Berman, I'd cut a deal with the people who own this site for click revenue.

Says me who posted 8 times in here, to include one e-book

[F N 11]

Click bait.

Smart person alert

[F N 11]

So, another Berman sh*t stirring article, but because it's Frank, got you all to go 5 pages deep in comment eh?

If I was Berman, I'd cut a deal with the people who own this site for click revenue.

Says me who posted 8 times in here, to include one e-book

Draft whispers and Kidd hint lmao Dude is a joke. How sorry do you have to be? It has 50 retweets for a reason. Dude is a clown.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Berman is not reliable, but it does seem like Frank may not be in the plans. if things happen a certain way, we could need some extra money in free agency and Frank may be the odd man out.

But you could also look at it like Frank could be a nice fit next to a couple of stars and he projects to be the type of player you would need.

Its really hard to say exactly how things will shake out

[RaZzMaTaZz]

the signs were there all year that they didn't love frank.....the signs are also there that they like mudiay. my question is, can we kill the sign maker ?

Kinda says more about the evaluators than the players

The evaluators that got us Mitch & Trier...

Spoiler:

.

Well Frank and Dotson( Who I like) where chosen by Phil and Gaines.

Mitch, Trier, & Knox was Perry and his team.

Cant fault Perry if he wants to deal Frank it wasn't his pick.

[WargamesX]

Berman is not reliable, but it does seem like Frank may not be in the plans. if things happen a certain way, we could need some extra money in free agency and Frank may be the odd man out.

But you could also look at it like Frank could be a nice fit next to a couple of stars and he projects to be the type of player you would need.

Its really hard to say exactly how things will shake out

To be fair we were talking about Frank not being in the plans this whole year and how KP was a foundation piece and look what happened.