Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Jeff Van Gully]

I don't think Berman has intel with the Knicks thinking, but is anyone really doubting the Knicks are entertaining a thought of trading Frank on draft night?
Everyone on the roster is likely available for the right price.

sure. but that's speculation and message board talk. not responsible journalism.

what he's saying makes sense. but it's not a report. isola did the same in his own way.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Berman is not reliable, but it does seem like Frank may not be in the plans. if things happen a certain way, we could need some extra money in free agency and Frank may be the odd man out.

But you could also look at it like Frank could be a nice fit next to a couple of stars and he projects to be the type of player you would need.

Its really hard to say exactly how things will shake out

To be fair we were talking about Frank not being in the plans this whole year and how KP was a foundation piece and look what happened.

True, things can change fast. There are a lot of variables in play so I dont think its set one way or another.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I think Spurs pick Frank up if he's available. The Spurs have 2 late first round picks and I think they give 1 up for Frank. Pop may think he can develop Frank into another Kawhi.

perfect landing spot for frank, really.

[Jeff Van Gully]

So, another Berman sh*t stirring article, but because it's Frank, got you all to go 5 pages deep in comment eh?

If I was Berman, I'd cut a deal with the people who own this site for click revenue.

thinking too small. theses same convos happen on facebook, twitter, and instragram too.

[thebuzzardman]

TLDR version of my ebook: Who's a better basketball player? THJr or Danny Green?

Dumbass teams, like the Mills Knicks, pick THJr
Smart teams, like the Spurs, pick Danny Green.

Obviously roster composition matters, but in a vacuum. Even at 18 million per (which smart teams don't do) Danny Green is a better player than THJr. Obviously the gap closes because then Danny Green is also overpaid at that point, but he's still just better

Why? Because defending and not playing like a chuckaholic dumbass on offense matters. And Green makes shots.

For the cognitively impaired, in no direct way in this post am I comparing Frank to Danny Green.

Or only vaguely. It's more about the 2nd half of the post. Good teams get their bonafide stars, one who creates for others (or draws a LOT of gravity from defenders on offense) and then gets Green style role players - as many as possible, while avoiding possession wasting, no defense knuckleheads, who also just might lack insight/have ego, in terms of what their role is.

[shtolky]

I literally stopped caring about this once I saw Berman wrote it.

[thebuzzardman]

Berman is not reliable, but it does seem like Frank may not be in the plans. if things happen a certain way, we could need some extra money in free agency and Frank may be the odd man out.

But you could also look at it like Frank could be a nice fit next to a couple of stars and he projects to be the type of player you would need.

Its really hard to say exactly how things will shake out

Sort of going off Frank topic here, but I appreciate the way that Perry has built team depth and organizational depth in a fairly short period of time. Small kudos to Phil for keeping the picks. Sure, low bar, average GM stuff, but it was an important preliminary phase before a real professional GM like Perry took over and took things to the next level. Anyway, even Dotson was picked under Phil, did a WHG pick become Mitch? Or that was the 2nd in the Melo deal? Anyway, holding the picks and the players built up a base of young, cheap guys of various talents and hitting home runs on the Mitch pick and the Trier UDFA were huge. And even having solid shooting, try to play defense, will move the ball guys like Kadeem and Jenkins and maybe Ellenson represent the flexibility to move nearly any guy on the roster for a better/different fit.

I've been harping for a while that I think AD has no interest in anyone but the Lakers, but that the Knicks, likely drafting a SG, and getting Kyrie and KD, will have so much (too much) depth (not that they are all awesome) at 1-3, that the Knicks could easily package up 2 young guys and two "Westchester specials" to the tune of 12-15 million, and add a player or two, who rationalize the roster, but still maintain significant youth.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Berman is not reliable, but it does seem like Frank may not be in the plans. if things happen a certain way, we could need some extra money in free agency and Frank may be the odd man out.

But you could also look at it like Frank could be a nice fit next to a couple of stars and he projects to be the type of player you would need.

Its really hard to say exactly how things will shake out

Sort of going off Frank topic here, but I appreciate the way that Perry has built team depth and organizational depth in a fairly short period of time. Small kudos to Phil for keeping the picks. Sure, low bar, average GM stuff, but it was an important preliminary phase before a real professional GM like Perry took over and took things to the next level. Anyway, even Dotson was picked under Phil, did a WHG pick become Mitch? Or that was the 2nd in the Melo deal? Anyway, holding the picks and the players built up a base of young, cheap guys of various talents and hitting home runs on the Mitch pick and the Trier UDFA were huge. And even having solid shooting, try to play defense, will move the ball guys like Kadeem and Jenkins and maybe Ellenson represent the flexibility to move nearly any guy on the roster for a better/different fit.

I've been harping for a while that I think AD has no interest in anyone but the Lakers, but that the Knicks, likely drafting a SG, and getting Kyrie and KD, will have so much (too much) depth (not that they are all awesome) at 1-3, that the Knicks could easily package up 2 young guys and two "Westchester specials" to the tune of 12-15 million, and add a player or two, who rationalize the roster, but still maintain significant youth.

The Mitch pick came from the Melo trade. I def like that we have been accumulating picks, while keeping our own and stocking up on young/hungry/unproven players....basically taking a lot of low risk, with low/medium/high reward moves.

What happens this offseason will obviously be huge and probably the defining moment of this front office. There are a lot of different ways this can go. Hope for the best, prepare for the worse. I am not really sold either way on how we will do. It always feels different, but there have also been times where we have been in somewhat similiar positions

[BadNewsBarnes]

We get rid of Frank, we Stalinize PMFJB once and for all...I think we need to do this, although it's not the majority opinion.

[thebuzzardman]

Berman is not reliable, but it does seem like Frank may not be in the plans. if things happen a certain way, we could need some extra money in free agency and Frank may be the odd man out.

But you could also look at it like Frank could be a nice fit next to a couple of stars and he projects to be the type of player you would need.

Its really hard to say exactly how things will shake out

Sort of going off Frank topic here, but I appreciate the way that Perry has built team depth and organizational depth in a fairly short period of time. Small kudos to Phil for keeping the picks. Sure, low bar, average GM stuff, but it was an important preliminary phase before a real professional GM like Perry took over and took things to the next level. Anyway, even Dotson was picked under Phil, did a WHG pick become Mitch? Or that was the 2nd in the Melo deal? Anyway, holding the picks and the players built up a base of young, cheap guys of various talents and hitting home runs on the Mitch pick and the Trier UDFA were huge. And even having solid shooting, try to play defense, will move the ball guys like Kadeem and Jenkins and maybe Ellenson represent the flexibility to move nearly any guy on the roster for a better/different fit.

I've been harping for a while that I think AD has no interest in anyone but the Lakers, but that the Knicks, likely drafting a SG, and getting Kyrie and KD, will have so much (too much) depth (not that they are all awesome) at 1-3, that the Knicks could easily package up 2 young guys and two "Westchester specials" to the tune of 12-15 million, and add a player or two, who rationalize the roster, but still maintain significant youth.

The Mitch pick came from the Melo trade. I def like that we have been accumulating picks, while keeping our own and stocking up on young/hungry/unproven players....basically taking a lot of low risk, low/medium/high reward moves.

What happens this offseason will obviously be huge and probably the defining moment of this front office. There are a lot of different ways this can go.

Since this is more fun than "Frank sucks!/Is great!", I'm going to keep it going.

Yup, Knox might not be all that. Frank either. Or one or both surprise in a few years. But they have some abilities, other teams feel that, and are cost controlled.
But the subtler aspects, at least to the MSM, is the extra 2nd rounders - that become Mitch. That the team located Trier. And Mitch, in terms of willingness to ignore the "unconventional". Have the Knicks ever had late draft success? Sure. Have they located some "ok" players in other ways - Copeland etc? Sure. But Perry, at exactly right time, right after Phil kept the picks, really boosted the asset base by drafting Knox (again, didn't trade it) and then getting Trier/Mitch.
And pivoting away from KP - I mean, it sucked the homegrown guy had to go, but to get back a legitimate asset in DSJr (yes, him and KP aren't the same), free up 30 million dollars over two seasons, AND get two first round picks in the next 4 years? Even if those picks are in the 20's - they are a big deal.

The good teams have enough attractive semi attractive players to further build the team. They always seems to have extra picks to be able to put into a deal to get a guy.

I mean, Sacramento sort of floundered around but waited a bit for some guys to mature, were lucky to be bad enough to get Fox, but also (without looking it up) under Divacs made some quit deals that really helped them turn the final corner to a playoff team, even a low one.

No analogy of Perry to Sactown, as I don't really know what his input there was in a brief period of time. But unless the Knicks trade everything for AD (which I just don't think happens), Knicks feel like they are about where Sactown was a year ago.

[thebuzzardman]

We get rid of Frank, we Stalinize PMFJB once and for all...I think we need to do this, although it's not the majority opinion.

Dotson
Kornet

Though, keeping to totalitarian political themes, I think Perry had operatives contact the powers in Sacramento to arrange a Giles hit on Kornet, achieving his goal through subterfuge, while maintaining plausible deniability.

Looks for Dotson to get submarined shooting a 3 this Saturday. Uncle Perry doesn't f*ck around.

[newyorker4ever]

I’ll burn all this **** down

How don’t they see the defensive potential of Mitch + Frank.

This is my biggest issue and i've been saying this but Fiz keeps talking about defense but barely played Frank when he was healthy and now they wanna look into trade Frank. We only have a few guys on this team that play defense right now and Frank is obviously one of them so why trade him. If we are gonna get some max guys in here that will do most of our scoring then they will need defenders on the court with them which Frank would be perfect for at PG, SG or SF which he can easily defend at all 3 positions.

[whocares1]

I’ll burn all this **** down

How don’t they see the defensive potential of Mitch + Frank.

This is my biggest issue and i've been saying this but Fiz keeps talking about defense but barely played Frank when he was healthy and now they wanna look into trade Frank. We only have a few guys on this team that play defense right now and Frank is obviously one of them so why trade him. If we are gonna get some max guys in here that will do most of our scoring then they will need defenders on the court with them which Frank would be perfect for at PG, SG or SF which he can easily defend at all 3 positions.

It’s not just Fiz it’s management. They acquired Mudiay and Trey Burke last season when it was supposed to be Frank that needed to get the bulk of the minutes once they gave up on the season. They don’t view him as a legitimate point guard, but I agree that his versatility and defensive ability should make him a guy that they’d like to keep as a glue guy.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Sort of going off Frank topic here, but I appreciate the way that Perry has built team depth and organizational depth in a fairly short period of time. Small kudos to Phil for keeping the picks. Sure, low bar, average GM stuff, but it was an important preliminary phase before a real professional GM like Perry took over and took things to the next level. Anyway, even Dotson was picked under Phil, did a WHG pick become Mitch? Or that was the 2nd in the Melo deal? Anyway, holding the picks and the players built up a base of young, cheap guys of various talents and hitting home runs on the Mitch pick and the Trier UDFA were huge. And even having solid shooting, try to play defense, will move the ball guys like Kadeem and Jenkins and maybe Ellenson represent the flexibility to move nearly any guy on the roster for a better/different fit.

I've been harping for a while that I think AD has no interest in anyone but the Lakers, but that the Knicks, likely drafting a SG, and getting Kyrie and KD, will have so much (too much) depth (not that they are all awesome) at 1-3, that the Knicks could easily package up 2 young guys and two "Westchester specials" to the tune of 12-15 million, and add a player or two, who rationalize the roster, but still maintain significant youth.

The Mitch pick came from the Melo trade. I def like that we have been accumulating picks, while keeping our own and stocking up on young/hungry/unproven players....basically taking a lot of low risk, low/medium/high reward moves.

What happens this offseason will obviously be huge and probably the defining moment of this front office. There are a lot of different ways this can go.

Since this is more fun than "Frank sucks!/Is great!", I'm going to keep it going.

Yup, Knox might not be all that. Frank either. Or one or both surprise in a few years. But they have some abilities, other teams feel that, and are cost controlled.
But the subtler aspects, at least to the MSM, is the extra 2nd rounders - that become Mitch. That the team located Trier. And Mitch, in terms of willingness to ignore the "unconventional". Have the Knicks ever had late draft success? Sure. Have they located some "ok" players in other ways - Copeland etc? Sure. But Perry, at exactly right time, right after Phil kept the picks, really boosted the asset base by drafting Knox (again, didn't trade it) and then getting Trier/Mitch.
And pivoting away from KP - I mean, it sucked the homegrown guy had to go, but to get back a legitimate asset in DSJr (yes, him and KP aren't the same), free up 30 million dollars over two seasons, AND get two first round picks in the next 4 years? Even if those picks are in the 20's - they are a big deal.

The good teams have enough attractive semi attractive players to further build the team. They always seems to have extra picks to be able to put into a deal to get a guy.

I mean, Sacramento sort of floundered around but waited a bit for some guys to mature, were lucky to be bad enough to get Fox, but also (without looking it up) under Divacs made some quit deals that really helped them turn the final corner to a playoff team, even a low one.

No analogy of Perry to Sactown, as I don't really know what his input there was in a brief period of time. But unless the Knicks trade everything for AD (which I just don't think happens), Knicks feel like they are about where Sactown was a year ago.

Yeah, it does give us more options and a lot of room to operate. We have never even been close to having this much flexibility in terms of combined future picks, cap space and young players. We can keep everyone, or package them for an upgrade if needed. And I think that is more or less where Frank probably stands right now which is the right mind set to have. In the right deal and in the right situation he should be moved, and the same can be said for most of our players (except Mitch).

[Phish Tank]

I’ll burn all this **** down

How don’t they see the defensive potential of Mitch + Frank.

This is my biggest issue and i've been saying this but Fiz keeps talking about defense but barely played Frank when he was healthy and now they wanna look into trade Frank. We only have a few guys on this team that play defense right now and Frank is obviously one of them so why trade him. If we are gonna get some max guys in here that will do most of our scoring then they will need defenders on the court with them which Frank would be perfect for at PG, SG or SF which he can easily defend at all 3 positions.

because Fiz and the FO only care about dunks, crossovers, and "aggressiveness." That's why they bust a nut over Knox in the draft workouts

[Synciere]

the chances you find a younger better defensive higher upside player in the mid to late 20's in the draft is slim to non...so whats the rush to trade him.

If its for a bigger piece and need the salary to match I would totally get that...for a simple swap of a late 1st rounder (just because you aren't the regime that drafted him). Is, for a lack of a better term, "stupid"

The rush to trade him is probably that his value could continue to tank. He may get better, but he may end up being just this guy.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Sort of going off Frank topic here, but I appreciate the way that Perry has built team depth and organizational depth in a fairly short period of time. Small kudos to Phil for keeping the picks. Sure, low bar, average GM stuff, but it was an important preliminary phase before a real professional GM like Perry took over and took things to the next level. Anyway, even Dotson was picked under Phil, did a WHG pick become Mitch? Or that was the 2nd in the Melo deal? Anyway, holding the picks and the players built up a base of young, cheap guys of various talents and hitting home runs on the Mitch pick and the Trier UDFA were huge. And even having solid shooting, try to play defense, will move the ball guys like Kadeem and Jenkins and maybe Ellenson represent the flexibility to move nearly any guy on the roster for a better/different fit.

I've been harping for a while that I think AD has no interest in anyone but the Lakers, but that the Knicks, likely drafting a SG, and getting Kyrie and KD, will have so much (too much) depth (not that they are all awesome) at 1-3, that the Knicks could easily package up 2 young guys and two "Westchester specials" to the tune of 12-15 million, and add a player or two, who rationalize the roster, but still maintain significant youth.

Good for you that you spin it to yourself so positively. I see a trail of errors through the Pills era, some fortune, some good opportunistic strikes (often playing catch up on the errors) and, more generally, a total lack of planning.

Now, I do agree that keeping well away from long term plans and simply acting in the moment as often as possible (which is kinda what Deeez Knicks praises in his reply to this post of yours) is/can be a very valid strategy. I personally typically don't love it - but I know that's just my aesthetic preference, nothing more.

The real question is are those small decisions adding up to something better than random. But probably the sample size isn't enough to call the Pills 'good' or 'bad' whatever the outcome this summer.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Watch on YouTube

If he can just become an average offensive player and keep playing defense like this then damn frank would be such an impact player.

ugh. straight virtuosic on the defensive end. kid just needs some time in the wood shed to work out some scoring kinks. not even offense, because his passing and IQ are already good.

doesn't necessarily make him an ideal PG in the traditional sense... but a very valuable guard. would really hate to give up on him right now.

[Capn'O]

I think Spurs pick Frank up if he's available. The Spurs have 2 late first round picks and I think they give 1 up for Frank. Pop may think he can develop Frank into another Kawhi.

I could see this.

As a corollary - when Pop comes calling for your young player, you should hang up the phone.

[thebuzzardman]

Sort of going off Frank topic here, but I appreciate the way that Perry has built team depth and organizational depth in a fairly short period of time. Small kudos to Phil for keeping the picks. Sure, low bar, average GM stuff, but it was an important preliminary phase before a real professional GM like Perry took over and took things to the next level. Anyway, even Dotson was picked under Phil, did a WHG pick become Mitch? Or that was the 2nd in the Melo deal? Anyway, holding the picks and the players built up a base of young, cheap guys of various talents and hitting home runs on the Mitch pick and the Trier UDFA were huge. And even having solid shooting, try to play defense, will move the ball guys like Kadeem and Jenkins and maybe Ellenson represent the flexibility to move nearly any guy on the roster for a better/different fit.

I've been harping for a while that I think AD has no interest in anyone but the Lakers, but that the Knicks, likely drafting a SG, and getting Kyrie and KD, will have so much (too much) depth (not that they are all awesome) at 1-3, that the Knicks could easily package up 2 young guys and two "Westchester specials" to the tune of 12-15 million, and add a player or two, who rationalize the roster, but still maintain significant youth.

Good for you that you spin it to yourself so positively. I see a trail of errors through the Pills era, some fortune, some good opportunistic strikes (often playing catch up on the errors) and, more generally, a total lack of planning.

Now, I do agree that keeping well away from long term plans and simply acting in the moment as often as possible (which is kinda what Deeez Knicks praises in his reply to this post of yours) is/can be a very valid strategy. I personally typically don't love it - but I know that's just my aesthetic preference, nothing more.

The real question is are those small decisions adding up to something better than random. But probably the sample size isn't enough to call the Pills 'good' or 'bad' whatever the outcome this summer.

I sort of delineate from Mills to Perry.

I'm not giving any special credit to Phil. He screwed up several things.
I look at Mills as being in charge for a few months and he f*cked it totally, with Baker's deal, and of course, THJr.

Perry comes in and has to clean up. He's not perfect, but I'd say he's been more than solid.

Obviously, I wish there was better syncing of vision between him and the coach regarding tanking during the Jefe year, there it is.
Tank harder, play young guys sooner after KP goes down. It's not all roses. But especially starting this offseason, very solid. 1 year deals, trading KP for DSJr and cap space and two picks. Adding G-League players who are ok. I can see an actual plan. I guess quibble over the Noah stretch but at least it's understandable after the fact.