Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Mecca]

Can you get a defender at franks salary?

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Kadeem Allen. Not sure if Torrey Craig is unrestricted next year.

I’d rather have Craig over Frank tbh. More bounce, aggression, grit.

[Mecca]

Knox and Frank ain’t it. It’s Mitch & DSJ as the true core pieces. Trier and DDot as secondary core pieces.

[Phish Tank]

Can you get a defender at franks salary?

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Kadeem Allen. Not sure if Torrey Craig is unrestricted next year.

I’d rather have Craig over Frank tbh. More bounce, aggression, grit.

a near 30 year old guard? Yikes.

That would be terrible GMing of you

[Mecca]

Kadeem Allen. Not sure if Torrey Craig is unrestricted next year.

I’d rather have Craig over Frank tbh. More bounce, aggression, grit.

a near 30 year old guard? Yikes.

That would be terrible GMing of you

I take it back. I thought Craig was like 20. Where has he been?

[Phish Tank]

I’d rather have Craig over Frank tbh. More bounce, aggression, grit.

a near 30 year old guard? Yikes.

That would be terrible GMing of you

I take it back. I thought Craig was like 20. Where has he been?

he was in Australia and New Zealand I think. Came to the NBA last season

[Sark]

My personal dream scenario is Zion gets drafted by Mavs, the Knicks get the 5th pick, package it with DSJr and Frank and Knox and Mitch for AD, Frank gets rerouted to the Mavs, who go own to feature Donic/KP/Frank/Zion/That german dude, make the playoffs often, while DSJr and Mitch kill it with JRue for a few years on the Pels.

And AD gets hurt and Knicks are a 6th seed for 4 years, while Kyrie and KD melt down amid the NY Tabloid harping of unmet expectations. Trier gets sent packing for some veteran help that doesn't help. With one of those Mavs' picks, so the Knicks have less assets moving forward.

For the next 4 years, I get to glory in the bitter recriminations of Knick fans, as the unsatisfying present and the bleak future turn them on each other more than ever.

The odds of all this aren't as low as one would presume. Except Knicks might not even be a 6 seed.

[Fat Kat]

Kadeem Allen. Not sure if Torrey Craig is unrestricted next year.

I’d rather have Craig over Frank tbh. More bounce, aggression, grit.

a near 30 year old guard? Yikes.

That would be terrible GMing of you

He turned 28 in December. Point taken though.

[ny-n-md]

Just trade him already so we can move on to the next whipping boy. Kevin Knox come on down...........

I’m already over Kevin “I play when I wanna” Knox

I think this is a rather quick rush to judgment on the kid. The flashes he showed in December and other parts of the season show big potential. Mentally he seems like an unsure kid still finding his way. You think this is all he will ever be?

[knicksrebuilder]

What if we get pick #5. Frank+the pick for #1? Not coming from an expert

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[thebuzzardman]

My personal dream scenario is Zion gets drafted by Mavs, the Knicks get the 5th pick, package it with DSJr and Frank and Knox and Mitch for AD, Frank gets rerouted to the Mavs, who go own to feature Donic/KP/Frank/Zion/That german dude, make the playoffs often, while DSJr and Mitch kill it with JRue for a few years on the Pels.

And AD gets hurt and Knicks are a 6th seed for 4 years, while Kyrie and KD melt down amid the NY Tabloid harping of unmet expectations. Trier gets sent packing for some veteran help that doesn't help. With one of those Mavs' picks, so the Knicks have less assets moving forward.

For the next 4 years, I get to glory in the bitter recriminations of Knick fans, as the unsatisfying present and the bleak future turn them on each other more than ever.

The odds of all this aren't as low as one would presume. Except Knicks might not even be a 6 seed.

Yup. I'm only half joking with this stuff.

[Fat Kat]

What if we get pick #5. Frank+the pick for #1? Not coming from an expert

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No one would ever do that trade with us. We couldn’t get the #1 pick for Frank + #2 pick.

[thebuzzardman]

What if we get pick #5. Frank+the pick for #1? Not coming from an expert

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Before the Frank haters smoke you on this, that's not enough. In fairness, even DSJr wouldn't be enough.

Not in this draft.

MAYBE a player (not Frank) and a FRP in another year and the swap. In a normal draft, where the #1 is good, but so the 2- 5 are a lot closer. The reality and perception of this draft is that Zion is >>>>>>>> 2-5, that basically trading anything to move even one spot, no less 4, basically isn't happening.

Ok, since never say never, in a super imaginary, totally speculative scenario, the Knicks have the #2, the team that gets the #1 has a super stud young PF blocking Zion's natural position, but that stud PF really isn't suited for C and then maybe also needed a PG, the Knicks could switch #2 for #1, including Smith Jr AND future FRP...and maybe. And as I type it, it feels like....nah, not even.

[knicksrebuilder]

It aint like zion a god

What if we get pick #5. Frank+the pick for #1? Not coming from an expert

Sent from my SM-J320FN using RealGM mobile app

Before the Frank haters smoke you on this, that's not enough. In fairness, even DSJr wouldn't be enough.

Not in this draft.

MAYBE a player (not Frank) and a FRP in another year and the swap. In a normal draft, where the #1 is good, but so the 2- 5 are a lot closer. The reality and perception of this draft is that Zion is >>>>>>>> 2-5, that basically trading anything to move even one spot, no less 4, basically isn't happening.

Ok, since never say never, in a super imaginary, totally speculative scenario, the Knicks have the #2, the team that gets the #1 has a super stud young PF blocking Zion's natural position, but that stud PF really isn't suited for C and then maybe also needed a PG, the Knicks could switch #2 for #1, including Smith Jr AND future FRP...and maybe. And as I type it, it feels like....nah, not even.

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[thebuzzardman]

It aint like zion a god

What if we get pick #5. Frank+the pick for #1? Not coming from an expert

Sent from my SM-J320FN using RealGM mobile app

Before the Frank haters smoke you on this, that's not enough. In fairness, even DSJr wouldn't be enough.

Not in this draft.

MAYBE a player (not Frank) and a FRP in another year and the swap. In a normal draft, where the #1 is good, but so the 2- 5 are a lot closer. The reality and perception of this draft is that Zion is >>>>>>>> 2-5, that basically trading anything to move even one spot, no less 4, basically isn't happening.

Ok, since never say never, in a super imaginary, totally speculative scenario, the Knicks have the #2, the team that gets the #1 has a super stud young PF blocking Zion's natural position, but that stud PF really isn't suited for C and then maybe also needed a PG, the Knicks could switch #2 for #1, including Smith Jr AND future FRP...and maybe. And as I type it, it feels like....nah, not even.

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You asked and now you want to complain about the answer?

Zion is just clearly better than the other guys. Does he have flaws? Yes. And RJ is really good, but has legit concerns about being more straight line in his drives and also his defense is pretty bad. Still, RJ is good. The gap between Zion at 1 and RJ at 2 is obvious, but not as much as it is vs Zion at 1 and Cam\Culver\Ja?\Clark?\Romeo? at 3.

Anyway, looking at past times teams switched, it took a FRP and the talent level between the players seemed closer coming out of the draft. Frank was a FRP, but his value is probably low FRP right now .

And a bet a couple of the guys in draft, anywhere from 2-15 - one, or two, have a career not that far off from Zions. I'm far from a draft expert on here. But some touted guy in the top 6 puts it together in 3 years, and some random guy less focused on is really good.

[TheDavinciCHODE]

Why sell Frank at his lowest?

I didn't want Frank in the draft, since I thought at that point in time we needed high upside, home run type prospects with a chance of developing into a star. Frank still has potential to be a very high level role player, but the chances of him reaching that level are pretty low IMO. Frank seems like he'll at best be a back of the rotation, glue guy who plays great defense and can handle the ball a bit while occasionally showing you something on offense.

That's definitely not a bad player at all, but not something most teams will give up a first for.

Does anyone that's not a complete homer see this guy ever being more than an 8ppg/4ast.1.5 steals guy?

Again that's not a bad player, especially if he plays great defense, but probably not someone you want being a definite member of your core in the modern NBA.

Ironically enough, if we get 2 stars like we want in free agency, Frank would become MORE valuable to the team since we would need more guys that can contribute without scoring. But if we roll forward with a full one rebuild, I could see Perry trading him for more swings at the fences.

I just don't know who's gonna trade anything for him. If I were a front office, I wouldn't be trading much for him. Unless Frank really reaches a high percentile of his potential, guys who give what he gives can be found for cheap deals in free agency.

The positive in all of this is that Frank is still really young, long, and can contribute at least defensively already. So if he ever develops a tighter handle and respectable spot up 3, he'll be a very good rotation guy. But what are the real chances of that?

[knicksrebuilder]

It aint like zion a god

Before the Frank haters smoke you on this, that's not enough. In fairness, even DSJr wouldn't be enough.

Not in this draft.

MAYBE a player (not Frank) and a FRP in another year and the swap. In a normal draft, where the #1 is good, but so the 2- 5 are a lot closer. The reality and perception of this draft is that Zion is >>>>>>>> 2-5, that basically trading anything to move even one spot, no less 4, basically isn't happening.

Ok, since never say never, in a super imaginary, totally speculative scenario, the Knicks have the #2, the team that gets the #1 has a super stud young PF blocking Zion's natural position, but that stud PF really isn't suited for C and then maybe also needed a PG, the Knicks could switch #2 for #1, including Smith Jr AND future FRP...and maybe. And as I type it, it feels like....nah, not even.

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You asked and now you want to complain about the answer?

Zion is just clearly better than the other guys. Does he have flaws? Yes. And RJ is really good, but has legit concerns about being more straight line in his drives and also his defense is pretty bad. Still, RJ is good. The gap between Zion at 1 and RJ at 2 is obvious, but not as much as it is vs Zion at 1 and Cam\Culver\Ja?\Clark?\Romeo? at 3.

Anyway, looking at past times teams switched, it took a FRP and the talent level between the players seemed closer coming out of the draft. Frank was a FRP, but his value is probably low FRP right now .

And a bet a couple of the guys in draft, anywhere from 2-15 - one, or two, have a career not that far off from Zions. I'm far from a draft expert on here. But some touted guy in the top 6 puts it together in 3 years, and some random guy less focused on is really good.

Rj+Frank/knox?

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[TheDavinciCHODE]

Why sell Frank at his lowest?

I didn't want Frank in the draft, since I thought at that point in time we needed high upside, home run type prospects with a chance of developing into a star. Frank still has potential to be a very high level role player, but the chances of him reaching that level are pretty low IMO. Frank seems like he'll at best be a back of the rotation, glue guy who plays great defense and can handle the ball a bit while occasionally showing you something on offense.

That's definitely not a bad player at all, but not something most teams will give up a first for.

Does anyone that's not a complete homer see this guy ever being more than an 8ppg/4ast.1.5 steals guy?

Again that's not a bad player, especially if he plays great defense, but probably not someone you want being a definite member of your core in the modern NBA.

Ironically enough, if we get 2 stars like we want in free agency, Frank would become MORE valuable to the team since we would need more guys that can contribute without scoring. But if we roll forward with a full one rebuild, I could see Perry trading him for more swings at the fences.

I just don't know who's gonna trade anything for him. If I were a front office, I wouldn't be trading much for him. Unless Frank really reaches a high percentile of his potential, guys who give what he gives can be found for cheap deals in free agency.

The positive in all of this is that Frank is still really young, long, and can contribute at least defensively already. So if he ever develops a tighter handle and respectable spot up 3, he'll be a very good rotation guy. But what are the real chances of that?

EDIT: I'd be MUCH higher on Frankie if he had shown consistent flashes of offensive ability. But even in games where he scored "a lot", it never struck me as something sustainable. He doesn't have much explosion around the rim, he rarely even gets to the rim, his handle is meh, his shot is below average, he doesn't many have"moves", can't break down his man, he shies away from contact, etc.

So like I said, it seems like his ceiling is a guy who can create a decent somewhat against second units, can hit stand still 3's, can run a pick n roll every once in a while, and can play elite defense. So, yeah, good role player at his ceiling. What's the chances he makes it?

[thebuzzardman]

Why sell Frank at his lowest?

I didn't want Frank in the draft, since I thought at that point in time we needed high upside, home run type prospects with a chance of developing into a star. Frank still has potential to be a very high level role player, but the chances of him reaching that level are pretty low IMO. Frank seems like he'll at best be a back of the rotation, glue guy who plays great defense and can handle the ball a bit while occasionally showing you something on offense.

That's definitely not a bad player at all, but not something most teams will give up a first for.

Does anyone that's not a complete homer see this guy ever being more than an 8ppg/4ast.1.5 steals guy?

Again that's not a bad player, especially if he plays great defense, but probably not someone you want being a definite member of your core in the modern NBA.

Ironically enough, if we get 2 stars like we want in free agency, Frank would become MORE valuable to the team since we would need more guys that can contribute without scoring. But if we roll forward with a full one rebuild, I could see Perry trading him for more swings at the fences.

I just don't know who's gonna trade anything for him. If I were a front office, I wouldn't be trading much for him. Unless Frank really reaches a high percentile of his potential, guys who give what he gives can be found for cheap deals in free agency.

The positive in all of this is that Frank is still really young, long, and can contribute at least defensively already. So if he ever develops a tighter handle and respectable spot up 3, he'll be a very good rotation guy. But what are the real chances of that?

EDIT: I'd be MUCH higher on Frankie if he had shown consistent flashes of offensive ability. But even in games where he scored "a lot", it never struck me as something sustainable. He doesn't have much explosion around the rim, he rarely even gets to the rim, his handle is meh, his shot is below average, he doesn't many have"moves", can't break down his man, he shies away from contact, etc.

So like I said, it seems like his ceiling is a guy who can create a decent somewhat against second units, can hit stand still 3's, can run a pick n roll every once in a while, and can play elite defense. So, yeah, good role player at his ceiling. What's the chances he makes it?

With guys this young, you may need a different perspective. I think he's shown flashes, but agree, lots of distance between them. But with "one and done" and soon to be "none and done" 18 year olds, I think fans need to reset how they look at players, to a degree. There will absolutely be "project busts" and Frank may be one of them. On the other hand, there's going to be a bunch of players who just start to put it together at the end of their rookie deals.

Perry gets it, on some level, by exploring 2nd draft guys like Mario and Vonleh. I guess that's what normal GM's always did.

It'll be interesting if there are any CBA ramifications when the draft opens up to 18 year olds. Not so much from the player side, but from the team side, where teams have to draft an 18 year old, spend 4 years on development, though of course for relatively cheap $, and then decided to resign. It's also an interesting factor for guys closer to the top of the draft, talented but still raw, and maybe still not fully there after 4 years, but now ready for a low max of 25 million - like KP.

Knicks decided KP wasn't it for 25 million for a variety of reasons. Decisions like that are going to get a little trickier when you take away a year of development and have it happen in the NBA instead.

[8516knicks]

Curious who other teams think more valuabl e in a trade Frank or Knox?

[thebuzzardman]

Curious who other teams think more valuabl e in a trade Frank or Knox?

Could be a "it depends" based on need. Probably Knox, though, as scoring is valued over defense in general (kind of a mistake a lot of teams make) plus Knox is still retaining "theoretical upside" having only disappointed for a year, while Frank has less, disappointing for 2. I'd assume NBA teams can dig a little deeper than that to analyze players but that in general some of that factors in.