2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick!

[bwgood77]

I brought up Garland several times already. Kinda scared of Temetrius and his development which seems to me right now like a long and painful process similar to Jackson's. Before the season start, Garland was pretty much a consensus #1 PG i this class, and he really delivered until that cursed injury. Average vision and passing ability but excels at shooting, off ball play and creating for himself. Already said i'm totally down with the idea of trading down and picking him in that 7-10 range.

Gotta be honest, I do not like this class at all. We have Zion who still bears a ton of question marks, Barrett and Reddish who both disappointed, Little who was touted as a top4 prospect and showed close to nothing, Langford who is solid but nothing special and a whole bunch of sophomores/juniors that rose very high (maybe even historically) because of the poor performance by many frosh prospects. So many players in the 1st round with ROLE PLAYER written on their foreheads.

What makes you think Temetrius is a long and painful process? Are you that worried about his shot? Turnovers? I mean he hasn't shot well, and I know there are questions but he is a very good FT shooter which is better than say Barrett, as an indication that shot will come around. And his 3pt shooting has gotten better in conference play at 37% which is encouraging (though maybe conference play is easier yet more recent).

#1 He plays totally out of control. Those ridiculously wild moves and reckless style he's getting away with in OVC won't fall in NBA. I mean he's a friggin turnover supermachine! Trae turned the ball over a lot, but he was CONSTANTLY double/triple-teamed and trapped all around the court for pretty much 3/4 of the season while playing in arguably the best (at that time) conference in college bball. In that regard, Ja is totally like Jackson - if he decides he's going to do something, he's going to do it, no matter what. If it means dunking on three 7 footers from the FT line, so be it.

#2 He's rail thin and it pops up as a major concern because of his playstyle. Again, unlike Young he's not much of a shooter and relies heavily on drives and playing through contact. How will that work in the NBA against Smarts, Holidays, Simmonses of this world, god knows.

#3 He's shooting is questionable. Percentage itself is not a problem, it's certainly below average but still somewhat decent. Slow and a little funky release is what concerns me. He doesn't have exactly the same shot mechanic when he's shooting threes like he has behind the charity stripe. I have trouble seeing him as a legit threat off the dribble or in half court offense against NBA competition.

Not trying to say he's necessarily a bust, but all this brings me to a conclusion that it'll take a lot of time and patience if we want to give him the keys of our offense.

Funny you mention Jackson, because I was thinking about him earlier today as having a similar playstyle, and thinking about someone calling him a winner after helping lead his team to the OVC Championship, wondering how Jackson would have done in the OVC. Also remember that Ayton led AZ to win the PAC 12 before getting crushed by Buffalo in the real tournament. And the PAC 12 is much better than the OVC (even this year).

The real test for Ja will be in his next game in the big tourney. His step up in competition will be pretty big, but obviously not nearly as big as it would be from there to the NBA.

I would definitely take a strong look at Garland if we are sitting with a non #1 high pick and want a PG. I'm not totally against Ja, but I have a feeling he is going to struggle A LOT with his shot in the NBA. And for being a guy that goes inside, he also is in only the 52nd percentile in finishing in the paint....whereas someone like Fox was in the 76th percentile in a much tougher conference.

I feel like he would somewhat be another pick like Jackson...a guy with a weird shot, who likely won't be a good 3 pt shooter, turns it over a lot and just takes it into the paint, but doesn't particularly finish well.

This Ringer article was pretty good.

https://www.theringer.com/nba-draft/2019/3/8/18255317/ja-morant-russell-westbrook-nba-draft

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[Crives]

What makes you think Temetrius is a long and painful process? Are you that worried about his shot? Turnovers? I mean he hasn't shot well, and I know there are questions but he is a very good FT shooter which is better than say Barrett, as an indication that shot will come around. And his 3pt shooting has gotten better in conference play at 37% which is encouraging (though maybe conference play is easier yet more recent).

#1 He plays totally out of control. Those ridiculously wild moves and reckless style he's getting away with in OVC won't fall in NBA. I mean he's a friggin turnover supermachine! Trae turned the ball over a lot, but he was CONSTANTLY double/triple-teamed and trapped all around the court for pretty much 3/4 of the season while playing in arguably the best (at that time) conference in college bball. In that regard, Ja is totally like Jackson - if he decides he's going to do something, he's going to do it, no matter what. If it means dunking on three 7 footers from the FT line, so be it.

#2 He's rail thin and it pops up as a major concern because of his playstyle. Again, unlike Young he's not much of a shooter and relies heavily on drives and playing through contact. How will that work in the NBA against Smarts, Holidays, Simmonses of this world, god knows.

#3 He's shooting is questionable. Percentage itself is not a problem, it's certainly below average but still somewhat decent. Slow and a little funky release is what concerns me. He doesn't have exactly the same shot mechanic when he's shooting threes like he has behind the charity stripe. I have trouble seeing him as a legit threat off the dribble or in half court offense against NBA competition.

Not trying to say he's necessarily a bust, but all this brings me to a conclusion that it'll take a lot of time and patience if we want to give him the keys of our offense.

Funny you mention Jackson, because I was thinking about him earlier today as having a similar playstyle, and thinking about someone calling him a winner after helping lead his team to the OVC Championship, wondering how Jackson would have done in the OVC. Also remember that Ayton led AZ to win the PAC 12 before getting crushed by Buffalo in the real tournament. And the PAC 12 is much better than the OVC (even this year).

The real test for Ja will be in his next game in the big tourney. His step up in competition will be pretty big, but obviously not nearly as big as it would be from there to the NBA.

I would definitely take a strong look at Garland if we are sitting with a non #1 high pick and want a PG. I'm not totally against Ja, but I have a feeling he is going to struggle A LOT with his shot in the NBA. And for being a guy that goes inside, he also is in only the 52nd percentile in finishing in the paint....whereas someone like Fox was in the 76th percentile in a much tougher conference.

I feel like he would somewhat be another pick like Jackson...a guy with a weird shot, who likely won't be a good 3 pt shooter, turns it over a lot and just takes it into the paint, but doesn't particularly finish well.

This Ringer article was pretty good.

https://www.theringer.com/nba-draft/2019/3/8/18255317/ja-morant-russell-westbrook-nba-draft

I have not watched too much of either player in college, but checking sports reference it looks like Ja has had a much higher fg% and 2p fg% over Fox (.503 vs .479). Ja has also averaged ~30% more fg attempts per game, is it possible JA is a more focal point of the offense and takes more high difficulty shots? Maybe this partially offsets the lower level of competition?

[bwgood77]

#1 He plays totally out of control. Those ridiculously wild moves and reckless style he's getting away with in OVC won't fall in NBA. I mean he's a friggin turnover supermachine! Trae turned the ball over a lot, but he was CONSTANTLY double/triple-teamed and trapped all around the court for pretty much 3/4 of the season while playing in arguably the best (at that time) conference in college bball. In that regard, Ja is totally like Jackson - if he decides he's going to do something, he's going to do it, no matter what. If it means dunking on three 7 footers from the FT line, so be it.

#2 He's rail thin and it pops up as a major concern because of his playstyle. Again, unlike Young he's not much of a shooter and relies heavily on drives and playing through contact. How will that work in the NBA against Smarts, Holidays, Simmonses of this world, god knows.

#3 He's shooting is questionable. Percentage itself is not a problem, it's certainly below average but still somewhat decent. Slow and a little funky release is what concerns me. He doesn't have exactly the same shot mechanic when he's shooting threes like he has behind the charity stripe. I have trouble seeing him as a legit threat off the dribble or in half court offense against NBA competition.

Not trying to say he's necessarily a bust, but all this brings me to a conclusion that it'll take a lot of time and patience if we want to give him the keys of our offense.

Funny you mention Jackson, because I was thinking about him earlier today as having a similar playstyle, and thinking about someone calling him a winner after helping lead his team to the OVC Championship, wondering how Jackson would have done in the OVC. Also remember that Ayton led AZ to win the PAC 12 before getting crushed by Buffalo in the real tournament. And the PAC 12 is much better than the OVC (even this year).

The real test for Ja will be in his next game in the big tourney. His step up in competition will be pretty big, but obviously not nearly as big as it would be from there to the NBA.

I would definitely take a strong look at Garland if we are sitting with a non #1 high pick and want a PG. I'm not totally against Ja, but I have a feeling he is going to struggle A LOT with his shot in the NBA. And for being a guy that goes inside, he also is in only the 52nd percentile in finishing in the paint....whereas someone like Fox was in the 76th percentile in a much tougher conference.

I feel like he would somewhat be another pick like Jackson...a guy with a weird shot, who likely won't be a good 3 pt shooter, turns it over a lot and just takes it into the paint, but doesn't particularly finish well.

This Ringer article was pretty good.

https://www.theringer.com/nba-draft/2019/3/8/18255317/ja-morant-russell-westbrook-nba-draft

I have not watched too much of either player in college, but checking sports reference it looks like Ja has had a much higher fg% and 2p fg% over Fox (.503 vs .479). Ja has also averaged ~30% more fg attempts per game, is it possible JA is a more focal point of the offense and takes more high difficulty shots? Maybe this partially offsets the lower level of competition?

Well if Ja finishes that much worse in the paint than Fox did yet shoots better from 2 in college, it has to mean Fox took a lot more midrange jumpers which dragged his 2 pt % down.

Ja's best quality right now is probably getting to the line. That and his passing. Most everything else is probably suspect at best.

[Crives]

Funny you mention Jackson, because I was thinking about him earlier today as having a similar playstyle, and thinking about someone calling him a winner after helping lead his team to the OVC Championship, wondering how Jackson would have done in the OVC. Also remember that Ayton led AZ to win the PAC 12 before getting crushed by Buffalo in the real tournament. And the PAC 12 is much better than the OVC (even this year).

The real test for Ja will be in his next game in the big tourney. His step up in competition will be pretty big, but obviously not nearly as big as it would be from there to the NBA.

I would definitely take a strong look at Garland if we are sitting with a non #1 high pick and want a PG. I'm not totally against Ja, but I have a feeling he is going to struggle A LOT with his shot in the NBA. And for being a guy that goes inside, he also is in only the 52nd percentile in finishing in the paint....whereas someone like Fox was in the 76th percentile in a much tougher conference.

I feel like he would somewhat be another pick like Jackson...a guy with a weird shot, who likely won't be a good 3 pt shooter, turns it over a lot and just takes it into the paint, but doesn't particularly finish well.

This Ringer article was pretty good.

https://www.theringer.com/nba-draft/2019/3/8/18255317/ja-morant-russell-westbrook-nba-draft

I have not watched too much of either player in college, but checking sports reference it looks like Ja has had a much higher fg% and 2p fg% over Fox (.503 vs .479). Ja has also averaged ~30% more fg attempts per game, is it possible JA is a more focal point of the offense and takes more high difficulty shots? Maybe this partially offsets the lower level of competition?

Well if Ja finishes that much worse in the paint than Fox did yet shoots better from 2 in college, it has to mean Fox took a lot more midrange jumpers which dragged his 2 pt % down.

Ja's best quality right now is probably getting to the line. That and his passing. Most everything else is probably suspect at best.

Don’t forget his Athleticism. Hopefully his athleticism will give our scouts hope he can become a strong defender. Would be fun if part of his draft workout was a 1-1 game with Book to test his defense.

The passing is nice, but I really like his ability to get past his defender and collapse the defense, giving him an opening to show off his passing. Much better then a pg like ball who can pass but is not great at creating open looks in a half court set.

[Djedefre]

That is exactly one of Ja’s weaknesses, half court sets. He is athletic guy but not exactly a blur like Fox. He struggles to blow past his defender even though his handle is elite and faces weak opponents most of the time. His shots around the rim are always contested and tough (weird angles, shooting through multiple hands, crazy reverse layups...), wild if you want, like his game in general.

[Crives]

That is exactly one of Ja’s weaknesses, half court sets. He is athletic guy but not exactly a blur like Fox. He struggles to blow past his defender even though his handle is elite and faces weak opponents most of the time. His shots around the rim are always contested and tough (weird angles, shooting through multiple hands, crazy reverse layups...), wild if you want, like his game in general.

Good to know. so he is ball with worse defense but a better jump shot? I guess I need to watch some games instead of the highlights.

[bwgood77]

That is exactly one of Ja’s weaknesses, half court sets. He is athletic guy but not exactly a blur like Fox. He struggles to blow past his defender even though his handle is elite and faces weak opponents most of the time. His shots around the rim are always contested and tough (weird angles, shooting through multiple hands, crazy reverse layups...), wild if you want, like his game in general.

Good to know. so he is ball with worse defense but a better jump shot? I guess I need to watch some games instead of the highlights.

Ball was a lot better shooter in college. He shot 41.2% from 3 on 194 attempts in the PAC 12. Morant is at 33.6% on 149 attempts. Though since Lonzo was a freshman, if you equate to Morant's freshman year he was 30.7% on 88 attempts.

[darmani]

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[Damkac]

Tankathon has Grant Williams as 4th best PF and 20th pick in the draft. Haven't heard anything about him but his stats looks good. Any thoughts?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Didn't really catch the game, But upon reading the comments......It takes me back to my thinking back near the beginning of the season, In which we move Ayton to the power forward spot. Hopefully utilizing his size and mobility better against smaller 4s". Then we find a shot blocking, rebounding defensive center in free agency, or the draft.

Since he currently plays more like a La Marcus Aldridge/ Pau Gasol than Robinson or Shaq. Again, given his mobility, And proclivity for perimeter shooting, over above the rim dominant style of play. I also think it would be easier to then cover his defensive inadequacies with a defensive big next to him at center.

But overall, Now would definitely be the time to experiment with such things, as there's only 14 rather meaningless games remaining.

Also, There are many 7 ft+ bigs in the drafts' 2nd round alone that we could take a flier on. And all could offer size and defense next to Ayton, IF we were to find him playing better at the 4.

1- Bol Bol: 7'2 with a 7'8 wingspan.

Watch on YouTube

2-Moses Brown: 7'1 with a 7'4 wingspan.

Watch on YouTube

3-Tacko Fall: ***7'6 with an 8'0wingspan.

Watch on YouTube

4- Felipe de Anjos: 7'3 with a 7'4+ wingspan.

Watch on YouTube

5- Christ Koumadje: 7'4 265 lbs.

Watch on YouTube

Personally, I wouldn't mind taking a stab at Bol Bol IF we were to trade down in the draft, And were looking at a center IF we found Ayton to be more productive and have a greater overall impact at the 4.

Moved your post to a more relevant thread

-LF22

[Blonde]

I do like Coby White quite a bit. He’ll probably end up a lottery pick by draft time.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I do like Coby White quite a bit. He’ll probably end up a lottery pick by draft time.

He kind of reminds me of a mix of Jamal Murray and monta Ellis. I really wouldn't mind him in a backup point guard kind of role, as i think that he could really help improve our perimeter shooting.

And i like that he has size at 6'5 too.

[darealjuice]

Man Zion is flat out a beast.

[Crives]

Barrets game is looking very similar to JJ

[Bogyo]

Tankathon has Grant Williams as 4th best PF and 20th pick in the draft. Haven't heard anything about him but his stats looks good. Any thoughts?

Only saw one game from him - where they beat UK and he was clearly outplaying PJ Washington. So my valuation could be off, but he looks legit, and he might slip to the second round if we're lucky and keep our pick I'd love to have him there. He looks like a shorter Boozer for me so maybe less rebounds, but more capable 3PT and FT shooter. Not sure about his defense, he looked to have a good motor and wingspan, but I don t think he is a stopper/rim protector.

*Edit: I just see that the rematch of that game is on tonight, you should check it out. Herro and Hagans should be in the draft as well, so 4 players to watch, I feel Herro could be this years DiVicenzo in the lottery.

[bwgood77]

Not much of a big board, but kind of how I feel about the draft. Of course I'd have Clarke in that tier 2 group somewhere though.

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/03/16/mike-gribanovs-pre-ncaa-tournament-2019-big-board/

[WeekapaugGroove]

Not much of a big board, but kind of how I feel about the draft. Of course I'd have Clarke in that tier 2 group somewhere though.

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/03/16/mike-gribanovs-pre-ncaa-tournament-2019-big-board/

Yeah this feels SO much like the 2016 draft where if you don't land 1 you won't feel great about your pick. Just like 2016 I'm sure some of these guys end up good but feels like a dart throw to find them.

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[Mischa]

Zion winning it all

[bwgood77]

Don't usually pull for 1 seeds but would like to see a Duke/Gonzaga rematch....at least 5 prospects....Zion vs Clarke...Rui vs Barrett

[bwgood77]

Stepien finally came out with their draft rankings https://www.thestepien.com/2019-individual-rankings/