Official Mitchell Robinson Thread

[Knicksfan1992]

Is there anyone who would still trade him without hesitation for AD, if we sign KD & Irving?

I don't think it's without hesitation but AD is so underrated here it's kind of absurd.

It's tough. I would include Mitch in an AD package but I wouldn't be sure it was the right move. It's more an indictment on today's NBA than AD but something is wrong when AD & Jrue + their supporting cast can't even make the playoffs. He's won one playoff series in his career and that was largely because Jrue and Rondo destroyed Lillard and McCollum (as great as AD was in that series). AD as an individual player is fantastic but I'm not sure he's what you need in today's NBA. That said, if he's joining KD and Kyrie then it's a whole other animal. Sign me up.

Jrue Holiday got a lot of the blogger attention from that series but let's not forget that part of the reason they can play such great defense is because AD is so versatile as a defender and provides a ton of cover for everyone including Jrue...

AD's playoff numbers are like GOAT level...

30 ppg 12 rpg and 2.5 bpg on a 59% true shooting percentage. It's a smaller sample size obviously but the vast majority of those games were against the Warriors... so it's not like he doesn't step up when needed. The problem with the Pelicans was always that they had no NBA level talent at arguably the most important position on he floor to have good depth which is the wing. They've also had terrible injury issues as well (which AD isn't helping to be fair).

[Context]

There's a huge connection between fandom and willingness to trade a player. You're asking a Knicks group if they'd trade the next DPOY. Of course they won't and proof is in responses, so your question is better posed for a forum of non Knicks fans to get a more impartial take, hence my original answer.

Mitch will win more than one DPOY when its all said and done. AD is NOT a dog- Mitch is.
Mitch brings much more value when you factor in salary, what you dont have to give up by NOT trading for AD,
he's better defensively TODAY and he doesn't even know what he's doing;
smdh (many of you dont understand the significance of that),
he's already shown more leadership than AD has in his first year in the league,
the only thing that AD may always have over him is offensive ability and offensive production but again-
step away from AD's numbers and put the entire picture in context.
Some of you don't realize you have to strongly consider and properly manage/balance the salary cap- if done wrong
it will hamper you in the future...
Not to mention, AD is always injured- in his previous 2 seasons he only had two years where he finished with 75 games- he other 4 years: 64,67,68,61

So NO!- im not "impartial" because he's a knick- i'm just a
"strategist" and have a deep understanding and respect for value...

Talk about fandom...

Exhibit A. Fan claims Dot is the Knicks' next Ray Allen and expects his "impartial" hot take to be taken seriously

I can see you had some trouble understanding what I meant- let me help you out. Ray Allen was counted on hitting that big three
on two championship teams and consistently making three's on two championship teams. I posed a question- could Dotson be that guy?:

Can he be our Ray Allen on our future championship team?

Spoiler:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1815133

Does that help?

[Context]

Is there anyone who would still trade him without hesitation for AD, if we sign KD & Irving?

I don't think it's without hesitation but AD is so underrated here it's kind of absurd.

I don't underrate him- he's just not a "dog", his cost doesn't equal the value you should get, and Money Mitch is being under valued here...Those that want to trade the farm for him want to turn the cheek to his injury history and fact that he's won
one play-off series in 6 years.

[Dantares]

I would lean yes to trading mitchell robinson for anthony davis but I wont be mad if we keep mitchell.

IMO mitchell robininson has the potential to impact the game defensively on the same level that steph curry impacts the game offensively. steph curry hitting from 35 feet is something the league has never seen before and because it creates unbelievable spacing for his teammates, which makes him such a net positive on offense. mitchell not only has the ability to block shots at the rim like a traditional big but he can cover ground like no other player we have ever seen before. also he can switch and defend guards with his quickness and length. He's an absolute terror.

[Context]

I would lean yes to trading mitchell robinson for anthony davis but I wont be mad if we keep mitchell.

IMO mitchell robininson has the potential to impact the game defensively on the same level that steph curry impacts the game offensively. steph curry hitting from 35 feet is something the league has never seen before and because it creates unbelievable spacing for his teammates, which makes him such a net positive on offense. mitchell not only has the ability to block shots at the rim like a traditional big but he can cover ground like no other player we have ever seen before. also he can switch and defend guards with his quickness and length. He's an absolute terror.

and he doesnt even know what hes doing out there...Money Mitch's defensive ceiling is the highest i've ever seen- people dont realize how important having a defensive anchor is. Rasheed Wallace was that for us in the beginning of that Kidd-Melo team and as soon as Sheed was unavailable with injury -you noticed...A peaked Mitch plus a well built team equals championship...Scoring is less important and again, AD is NOT a "dog".

[Juco24]

If we include Mitchell... then we keep our other picks past '19... But I swear I can't see trading Zion + Mitchell (don't care about Frank/DSJ/Knox) for Davis - regardless of how great he is.

I refuse to believe that we wouldn't be just as well off with KI/Dots/Mitchell/Zion/Durant & Trier/DSJ/Knox/Frank on the bench or to use as trade chips as we would be with KI/Dots/???/Davis/Durant & Trier/???

[Stannis]

If we include Mitchell... then we keep our other picks past '19... But I swear I can't see trading Zion + Mitchell (don't care about Frank/DSJ/Knox) for Davis - regardless of how great he is.

I refuse to believe that we wouldn't be just as well off with KI/Dots/Mitchell/Zion/Durant & Trier/DSJ/Knox/Frank on the bench or to use as trade chips as we would be with KI/Dots/???/Davis/Durant & Trier/???

That's pretty much where I'm at.

Plus I see a trio of KD + KI + AD taking away from each other. AD will definitely not average the same amount of points. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was barely getting 20 PPG.

At least with Mitch, he will know his role and you won't have any chemistry issues.

[Juco24]

If we include Mitchell... then we keep our other picks past '19... But I swear I can't see trading Zion + Mitchell (don't care about Frank/DSJ/Knox) for Davis - regardless of how great he is.

I refuse to believe that we wouldn't be just as well off with KI/Dots/Mitchell/Zion/Durant & Trier/DSJ/Knox/Frank on the bench or to use as trade chips as we would be with KI/Dots/???/Davis/Durant & Trier/???

There's pretty much where I'm at.

Plus I see a trio of KD + KI + AD taking away from each other. AD will definitely not average the same amount of points. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was barely getting 20 PPG.

At least with Mitch, he will know his role and you won't have any chemistry issues.

Very true! And as good as that Miami team was... Bosh was on his way to HoF status in Toronto but when he had to play with Wade & Bron, his game suffered (especially on offense). Not saying that Anthony will be another Bosh, but I agree with you that his offensive output will suffer.

[dakomish23]

Is there anyone who would still trade him without hesitation for AD, if we sign KD & Irving?

I don't think it's without hesitation but AD is so underrated here it's kind of absurd.

I think he’s the most talented player in the NBA. Maybe even by a decent margin.

I just don’t know if the Knicks are better off with depth over adding an absolute beast in a KD Kyrie situation.

Kyrie DSJ
Frank Dotson
KD Knox
Zion
Mitch Vonleh (who I’m assuming we keep)

[thebuzzardman]

No way we trade Mitch...he's more of a unicorn than KP.

Because he blocks 3's and is athletic?

The league has had a lot of rim runner/defensive/shot blockers.

Obviously, he has GREAT footwork on the perimeter and covers a lot of ground, but it's not super unique.

Whiteside. Capella. Heck, young Chandler. Old Chandler. Younger DJ. Etc
Mitch has the perimeter D on them, but still.

Prospect hugging on here with Mitch. Trade that guy for AD any day, all day.

[thebuzzardman]

If we include Mitchell... then we keep our other picks past '19... But I swear I can't see trading Zion + Mitchell (don't care about Frank/DSJ/Knox) for Davis - regardless of how great he is.

I refuse to believe that we wouldn't be just as well off with KI/Dots/Mitchell/Zion/Durant & Trier/DSJ/Knox/Frank on the bench or to use as trade chips as we would be with KI/Dots/???/Davis/Durant & Trier/???

That's pretty much where I'm at.

Plus I see a trio of KD + KI + AD taking away from each other. AD will definitely not average the same amount of points. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was barely getting 20 PPG.

At least with Mitch, he will know his role and you won't have any chemistry issues.

I agree.

But does anyone remember Dennis Johnson? He was a star before going to Boston. But Boston had Bird and McHale and even Parrish and DJ just sublimated his scoring for the greater good of the team, but was still a very high level player.

If Kyrie did that in an AD\Durant scenario, that would be great. (Yes, he's nowhere near the defender DJ was). Anyway, don't see Kyrie wired that way, so your point stands.

[thebuzzardman]

I support any scenario where we trade all the young guys and hopefully a few picks.

Are there any guys we can get with players who are under 25 years of age who are left over after trading nearly everyone for AD?

Like, package Zo and Dot for someone. We can throw in Kornet too.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I support any scenario where we trade all the young guys and hopefully a few picks.

Are there any guys we can get with players who are under 25 years of age who are left over after trading nearly everyone for AD?

Like, package Zo and Dot for someone. We can throw in Kornet too.

Let me take a stab at this. Caveat emptor, the numbers may be wrong! Le Sigh.

Assuming space clearing for KI+KD:
If the Knicks get the #5 pick they can pick up the option for Zo, Dot and Ellenson.
If they pick #4 they can pick up Zo's option and one of Dot and Ellenson (but seemingly are just a touch over for both)
If they pick #3 they can pick up Zo, but neither of Dot and Ellenson (or both Dot and Ellensen but not Zo).
If they pick #2 they can pick up both Dot and Ellenson but can't pick up Zo.
If they pick #1 they can pick up one of Dot and Ellenson, but not both (and not Zo).

If they then want to trade for AD they need to find 21.67 in salary. Frank, DSJ and Kevin leaves them needing to find almost exactly another 8m. Adding Mitch brings the number down to 6.44m
If they pick #1-#2 they need to throw the pick into the trade to make the numbers work whether or not they include Mitch. If #1 then can get back one of Frank, DSJ or Knox if throw in instead both Mitch and Dot/Ellenson. If #2 then same thing, but throwing in Mitch + Dot + Ellenson.
If they pick #3 they include the pick and could throw Mitch and Zo into the trade and keep one of DSJ or Knox.
If they pick #4 they include the pick and Mitch, Zo and Dot and keep any one of Frank, DSJ or Knox, or include pick, Frank, DSJ, Knox and Dot and keep Mitch and Zo.
If they pick #5 they have a number of ways to skin the cat depending on what NO would want. (The more ways you break down the salaries the more ways you have of combining them.)

So the lower the pick the more you could be left with to trade - but realistically the maximum is about $5m of salary, so looking at a $6.25m contract.

(This is assuming dealing with the MLE separately. If you could combine those and trade that would give you a decent amount more, obviously.)

[2010]

I support any scenario where we trade all the young guys and hopefully a few picks.

Are there any guys we can get with players who are under 25 years of age who are left over after trading nearly everyone for AD?

Like, package Zo and Dot for someone. We can throw in Kornet too.

Spoiler:

[thebuzzardman]

I support any scenario where we trade all the young guys and hopefully a few picks.

Are there any guys we can get with players who are under 25 years of age who are left over after trading nearly everyone for AD?

Like, package Zo and Dot for someone. We can throw in Kornet too.

Spoiler:

[BKlutch]

Again, you don’t trade Mitch unless AD signs an extension immediately. No waiting for the off season.

Um, you don't trade what it's going to take to get AD (even if it's not Mitch) if he's only a 1 year rental. We need to know he will stay before we deplete the team.

That would be too much sadness for the fans to bear if we did that, AD left, and we had nothing. Funny thing, I don't think this GM would be foolish enough to do that.

[thebuzzardman]

Anyway, of course I'd like to keep Mitch.

And I like DSJr, but it would be interesting to see a scenario built around the pick (if not Zion), DSJr and the Mavs picks and two more guys - but as B8RcDeMktfxC has pointed out, basically Knox or Frank has to be in there as well, along with some filler.

But if KP could net, AD...

KP (DSJr + Mav picks) + Knox + 2019#1 + THJr + CLee + Dot+ Ellenson for AD is the end result. (not sure if that hit enough money etc)

And Knicks keep Zo and Mitch and their own picks 2020 -> And Frank (Assumption isn't pro Frank, it's that DSJr and Knox have more perceived value)

Kyrie/Frank
Zo/Jenkins
KD/?
AD/?
Mitch/?

Not to be a prospect hugger, but trying to round out the team is sort of rough.

Would the team have the MLE and LLE? IF Danny Green took the MLE and Broke Lopez the LLE (he took 3 million last year)

Kyrie/Frank
Zo/Jenkins
KD/Green
AD/?
Mitch/Lopez

[Kampuchea]

If I wouldn’t include Fields in a Melo trade you think I’m trading Mitch for a player not as good as Melo? GTFO

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Anyway, of course I'd like to keep Mitch.

And I like DSJr, but it would be interesting to see a scenario built around the pick (if not Zion), DSJr and the Mavs picks and two more guys - but as B8RcDeMktfxC has pointed out, basically Knox or Frank has to be in there as well, along with some filler.

But if KP could net, AD...

KP (DSJr + Mav picks) + Knox + 2019#1 + THJr + CLee + Dot+ Ellenson for AD is the end result. (not sure if that hit enough money etc)

And Knicks keep Zo and Mitch and their own picks 2020 -> And Frank (Assumption isn't pro Frank, it's that DSJr and Knox have more perceived value)

Sportrac numbers

Code: Select all

FRP#5:  6219600
Knox:   4380120
DSJ:    4463640
Dot:    1618520    
Henry:  1645357
Zo:     3551100
----------------------
Total: 21878337


Davis: 21674415 ( = 27093019 * 0.8 )
       

Sorry, have to wave good bye to Zo as well I'm afraid.

Kyrie
Frank/Jenkins
KD/?
AD/?
Mitch/?

Not to be a prospect hugger, but trying to round out the team is sort of rough.

Would the team have the MLE and LLE? IF Danny Green took the MLE and Broke Lopez the LLE (he took 3 million last year)

Kyrie
Frank/Jenkins
KD/Green
AD/?
Mitch/Lopez

rearranging your team a little. Allen for a min?

[Context]

the problem with some of you is -you don't learn from past mistakes...CHEMISTRY is not guaranteed.
Championship teams aren't slapped together...There's a foundation and structure in place...

All I can hope for is that Boston empties their tank for this guy and Kyrie goes to LA because instant gratification will get this fan base every time...