Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Phish Tank]

we've talked a bunch about Frank, but he honestly hasn't played in more than a month. Hard to say he hasn't done much when many people have probably forgot how he plays.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Outside of Trier and Mitch I'm not really attached to any of the kids. If we trade them we trade them.

[stuporman]

DSJr is exactly what I thought, a guy who will get some stats in an exciting way but not all that efficiently, maybe as much as 18-6 eventually but isn't really a player that contributes to a winning team.

Frank probably won't ever get that much but he's a guy who will more quietly contribute to a winning team.

So the Knicks will trade the winner and keep the loser cementing themselves as the perpetually losing franchise that goes for flash over substance. This is almost a given at this point from this mess of a organization.

Whats stopping Frank from doing that on the Knicks? He hasnt done much winning here so how is he a winner?

Your question reveals that you have little to no understanding of indicator traits so I won't spend a moment explaining it, you won't get it anyway.

[drekwins]

Supporting the idea of playing your kids vs supporting the team if they moved to the other coast

Yeah, that’s an equivalent statement

Neither is the guy I wanted. DSJ & Mikal / MPJ. For me it’s about the correct thing to do when you are rebuilding. We’re trailer trash. Play the damn lotto.

You said we'd hop on the bandwagon if they were good. I said we wouldn't root for the Knicks if they moved to Alaska. You're bringing up things with near zero chances of happening to question us as fans so I did too.

And we're 2.5 games behind Phoenix we are tanking already! We're the youngest team in the league its not like they're losing minutes to vets. Frank is losing minutes to DSJ and 24 year old Mudiay. Knox is playing too much if you ask me. Why keep focusing on known scrubs when you have more talented young players on the roster?

You can focus on all of them.

Frank lost minutes to Jack and Sessions last year. He played less minutes with KP than LFT.

That’s inexcusable.

Who’s should the Knox mins go to?

That's not it. Knox needs to have some sort of consequence for not doing other things than shoot. He can't just keep throwing up his junk, playing halfass D, etc. If I'm developing a young guy, I create "games within the game." I tell him that he needs to get 1 Rebound, Ast, Stl or Blk to earn 3 shots. If he doesn't get the others, he can't shoot or he'll be taken out of the game. Something along those lines. Or he needs 1 Reb, Ast, Stl or Blk to earn 2.5 minutes of playing time. If he gets 5 rebounds, 1 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, he can only play 18 minutes max. There needs to be accountability and consequences. Of course, such a structure could be more complex. I'm just throwing things out there.

[Context]

DSJr is exactly what I thought, a guy who will get some stats in an exciting way but not all that efficiently, maybe as much as 18-6 eventually but isn't really a player that contributes to a winning team.

Frank probably won't ever get that much but he's a guy who will more quietly contribute to a winning team.

So the Knicks will trade the winner and keep the loser cementing themselves as the perpetually losing franchise that goes for flash over substance. This is almost a given at this point from this mess of a organization.

Correct. This franchise will get rid of the winning contributors in place of the big name who will put up stats, but inefficiently and without wins.

People don't realize that you don't need /can't have hall of fame players at every position. You need guys like frank who are defense first and don't need the ball, but are smart and know the game.

That said, I still need frank to show more. I don't get how people want to get rid of him before seeing he and Dsjr together for at least a full year

yeah...I wouldnt have an issue keeping him...

[HEZI]

DSJr is exactly what I thought, a guy who will get some stats in an exciting way but not all that efficiently, maybe as much as 18-6 eventually but isn't really a player that contributes to a winning team.

Frank probably won't ever get that much but he's a guy who will more quietly contribute to a winning team.

So the Knicks will trade the winner and keep the loser cementing themselves as the perpetually losing franchise that goes for flash over substance. This is almost a given at this point from this mess of a organization.

Whats stopping Frank from doing that on the Knicks? He hasnt done much winning here so how is he a winner?

Your question reveals that you have little to no understanding of indicator traits so I won't spend a moment explaining it, you won't get it anyway.

[HEZI]

DSJr is exactly what I thought, a guy who will get some stats in an exciting way but not all that efficiently, maybe as much as 18-6 eventually but isn't really a player that contributes to a winning team.

Frank probably won't ever get that much but he's a guy who will more quietly contribute to a winning team.

So the Knicks will trade the winner and keep the loser cementing themselves as the perpetually losing franchise that goes for flash over substance. This is almost a given at this point from this mess of a organization.

Whats stopping Frank from doing that on the Knicks? He hasnt done much winning here so how is he a winner?

Your question reveals that you have little to no understanding of indicator traits so I won't spend a moment explaining it, you won't get it anyway.

Dang I was looking forward to it too

[thebuzzardman]

Who is Mudiay's agent and why are they treating Mudiay so nice as a result, is what I need to know.

*edit - nm, I'm not THAT lazy

https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent_clients/BJ-Armstrong/102

Obviously, the Knicks are using Mudiay to woo Bruno Caboclo

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Ehhh. Can't knock Bruno. He's getting legit playing time with the ... 'scratch head', meh, let me look that up. Two years after two years. It's Knox's development model.

[edit] tbf he's also Kuzminskas's agent, so he's a pretty important dude.

[Greenie]

I understand people not being high on Frank. I don't understand why people feel that it's imperative to trade him.

Young players have to show SOMETHING.
Look at Mitch.

Both Frank and Knox are hard and damn near impossible to watch.

It’s not that they’re young. It’s their performance and that’s 100% on them.

Doesn't really address the question

People want to just get something while they’re still on their rookie contract.

With the way they are playing I don’t see them being re-signed

[Garbagelo]

"Take that for data"

Turns out "data" never really mattered much.

[TruthBeTold]

23 Pages?
The truth is the knicks want to trade Frank, preferably for a second rounder. Base on history, they believe they can get a second round player that is actually better than Frank Ntilikina, a Phil Jackson drafted player.

Yes, there will be blood, tears and hate from some Knicks fans. Draft night will turn into a funeral if the Knicks are drafting 5th and trading Frank in the process. However, if the Knicks can sign KD and Kyrie, then all will be forgive until Marc Berman break news that the Knicks will be trading their developing players and high draft picks for AD. And WHEN the knicks win a championship with KD,AD & KI, then all will be forgiven again.

Here is what I believe. Frank doesn't want to play for the rest of the season. He has lost confidence in his ability on offense, and probably don't enjoy playing basketball as much as he did. He also probably believe the Knicks preferred Smith Jr. over him and probably don't want to play with Smith Jr. to help make the FO job easier in the future. Frank should have been developing in the G-league a long time ago. Knox should also be developing in the G-league as well. The Spurs have been doing it the right way for a long time and getting positive results. In the end, getting KD,AD & KI should be top priority for next season.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Frank [is] hard to watch.

This is mystifying.

Frank is compulsive viewing when the Knicks don't have the ball.

And he's a little frustrating, but overall better than any other option available, and generally makes the offence on a not-great-team run semi-smoothly when he's playing PG.

[Greenie]

Frank [is] hard to watch.

This is mystifying.

Frank is compulsive viewing when the Knicks don't have the ball.

And he's a little frustrating, but overall better than any other option available, and generally makes the offence on a not-great-team run semi-smoothly when he's playing PG.

No he doesn’t and no he’s not. Your best option at PG is DSJ
The offense is trash no matter who is running point.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Frank [is] hard to watch.

This is mystifying.

Frank is compulsive viewing when the Knicks don't have the ball.

And he's a little frustrating, but overall better than any other option available, and generally makes the offence on a not-great-team run semi-smoothly when he's playing PG.

No he doesn’t and no he’s not. Your best option at PG is DSJ
The offense is trash no matter who is running point.

Fine. Whatever. Keep doing you. I've put you back on ignore. Not a personal thing, just I don't have time to read things I have no interest in reading.

[Appleshampoo]

Berman placed this story well for truthiness. Frank did not attend the Jason Kidd pep talk with DSJ and Mudiay. Dotson and Trier both are playing well at shooting guard. No room left for Frank.


Realistically though they could play Frank backup to DSJ. Mudiay should have been traded at the deadline. That is a great mystery to me.

[dakomish23]

You said we'd hop on the bandwagon if they were good. I said we wouldn't root for the Knicks if they moved to Alaska. You're bringing up things with near zero chances of happening to question us as fans so I did too.

And we're 2.5 games behind Phoenix we are tanking already! We're the youngest team in the league its not like they're losing minutes to vets. Frank is losing minutes to DSJ and 24 year old Mudiay. Knox is playing too much if you ask me. Why keep focusing on known scrubs when you have more talented young players on the roster?

You can focus on all of them.

Frank lost minutes to Jack and Sessions last year. He played less minutes with KP than LFT.

That’s inexcusable.

Who’s should the Knox mins go to?

That's not it. Knox needs to have some sort of consequence for not doing other things than shoot. He can't just keep throwing up his junk, playing halfass D, etc. If I'm developing a young guy, I create "games within the game." I tell him that he needs to get 1 Rebound, Ast, Stl or Blk to earn 3 shots. If he doesn't get the others, he can't shoot or he'll be taken out of the game. Something along those lines. Or he needs 1 Reb, Ast, Stl or Blk to earn 2.5 minutes of playing time. If he gets 5 rebounds, 1 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, he can only play 18 minutes max. There needs to be accountability and consequences. Of course, such a structure could be more complex. I'm just throwing things out there.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be structure. I’m saying there should be all the opportunity. You can do both.

[GONYK]

23 Pages?
The truth is the knicks want to trade Frank, preferably for a second rounder. Base on history, they believe they can get a second round player that is actually better than Frank Ntilikina, a Phil Jackson drafted player.

The Knicks have turned down 2nd round pick offers for Frank multiple times.

[Greenie]

This is mystifying.

Frank is compulsive viewing when the Knicks don't have the ball.

And he's a little frustrating, but overall better than any other option available, and generally makes the offence on a not-great-team run semi-smoothly when he's playing PG.

No he doesn’t and no he’s not. Your best option at PG is DSJ
The offense is trash no matter who is running point.

Fine. Whatever. Keep doing you. I've put you back on ignore. Not a personal thing, just I don't have time to read things I have no interest in reading.

I’ll do the same. I don’t like reading things homers post.

[dakomish23]

You said we'd hop on the bandwagon if they were good. I said we wouldn't root for the Knicks if they moved to Alaska. You're bringing up things with near zero chances of happening to question us as fans so I did too.

And we're 2.5 games behind Phoenix we are tanking already! We're the youngest team in the league its not like they're losing minutes to vets. Frank is losing minutes to DSJ and 24 year old Mudiay. Knox is playing too much if you ask me. Why keep focusing on known scrubs when you have more talented young players on the roster?

You can focus on all of them.

Frank lost minutes to Jack and Sessions last year. He played less minutes with KP than LFT.

That’s inexcusable.

Who’s should the Knox mins go to?

Last year Horny wanted to win for his job. We're talking about now.

And play anyone over Knox just get that bum off the floor.

That is exactly what I was talking about

And Frank's almost below 34%!

The fact is no team lets projects as Frank and Knox play for so long. The other teams try do preserve the value and moral of theirs projetcs by limiting their minutes. Besides they have bigger and better rosters.

Trae was shooting 38% and 25% from 3 and ATL still started and played him 29 MPG for the first 30 games. I’d say their patience paid off.

The goal is to go through the bad to come out the other side, especially in years where wins don’t matter. Whether Knox does or not, it was by far the best decision to invest the opportunity in your lottery pick.

Too bad they weren’t smart enough to do it last year with Frank.

You don’t want to give kids as much opportunity as possible unless they’re performing well right now. I have a longer term approach, even with guys like Knox who has been horrible. We are rebuilding and wins don’t matter. It’s the correct move whether you like the player or you don’t.