Is John Collins a Top 5 PF in the NBA right now?

REHawksFan · Post #1 » by **REHawksFan** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:02 pm

I was thinking about this question earlier today and my first thought was of course not. No way he could be in year two. But then I started looking at a few numbers and consider this:

Per Basketball Reference:
JC is 1 of 3 players in the NBA that currently average 19+ pts / 9+ rbs / 60+ TS%. The other two are Giannis and KAT. (only Giannis is considered a PF)
JC is 1 of 2 players in the NBA that currently shoots 55+ FG% / 35+ 3P% / 9+ rbs. The other is Sabonis.
JC is 1 of 8 players in the NBA that currently average 19+ pts / 9+ rbs / PER 20+. The others are Giannis, KAT, AD, Westbrook, Embiid, Jokic, and Vucevic (only Giannis and AD are considered PFs).

Per ESPN:
JC is 4th among PFs in PER behind AD, Giannis, Montrez Harrell
JC is 5th among PFs in VA behind Giannis, AD, Griffin, and Harrell

I know his defense is historically bad but his offense is top 3 or so in the NBA at his position. Does anyone think he could be considered a top 5 player at his position right now? Regardless, it's likely he's still getting better so it's exciting to think about the prospects for the his future.

graymule · Post #2 » by **graymule** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:34 pm

If he's not one of the top five, what six current power F. would you swap. even, for JC?

:crazy:

peoriabird · Post #3 » by **peoriabird** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:41 pm

REHawksFan wrote:
I know his defense is historically bad but his offense is top 3 or so in the NBA at his position.

I'm not sure that his defense is historically bad.

King Ken · Post #4 » by **King Ken** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:20 pm

Offensively, the 3rd best outside of AD and GA. Defensively, he is pretty bad. He has the potential to be elite on offense.

I don't know yet. He has the potential

Spud2nique · Post #5 » by **Spud2nique** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:30 pm

King Ken wrote:Offensively, the 3rd best outside of AD and GA. Defensively, he is pretty bad. He has the potential to be elite on offense.

I don't know yet. He has the potential

This! And very excited!

King Ken · Post #6 » by **King Ken** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:31 pm

Spud2nique wrote:
King Ken wrote:Offensively, the 3rd best outside of AD and GA. Defensively, he is pretty bad. He has the potential to be elite on offense.

I don't know yet. He has the potential

This! And very excited!

It really is

benhillboy · Post #7 » by **benhillboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:52 pm

Definately. The man had a higher rookie shooting percentage than Shaq. SHAQ!

Harrell is having his time to shine but certainly won’t be a future multi-AS like John will. The other guys on those lists outside of Sabonis seem to be the only players who can slow or match John’s production. Everyone else in the league gets devoured. Nothing less than a Taj Gibson can even think about containing him.

I never worry about poor defensive players of John’s caliber if they’re sandwiched between 2 good ones positionally. Our wings and Ded help John as much as Trae. I haven’t looked at the lineups but it seems John doesn’t run much with Len.

He’ll come along steadily, CLP won’t allow him to be mediocre on defense as this team evolves and inclines. His 3.2 fouls per seem like more but I have been disappointed in his block drop off since he came back. It’s just very uncommon for a guy his age. I expected him to peak at 1.5 over the next 2 years, now I don’t know if he’s gonna stay at a paltry .4. You just can’t have Bigs failing to challenge shots they should regardless of arm length.

Post #8 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:06 pm

benhillboy wrote:Definately. The man had a higher rookie shooting percentage than Shaq. SHAQ!

Nothing less than a Taj Gibson can even think about containing him.

NO. Just, no. He struggles against length. Significantly. He struggles to create his own shot and for others. He's a great rim runner and finisher. But he isn't legitimately a #1 option.

Read on Twitter

Post #9 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:30 pm

With that said...this kinda production is pretty good.

Read on Twitter

hawks_fan25 · Post #10 » by **hawks_fan25** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:40 pm

I don't know if he is a top 5 PF, but he is the perfect complement to Trae. You almost have to look at the duo together and compare them to other PG/PF duos. I don't know percentages, but it feels like half of Trae's assists go to Collins. Those two are great together on offense, but probably one of the worst PG/PF duos in the NBA on defense.

Post #11 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:17 pm

hawks_fan25 wrote:I don't know if he is a top 5 PF, but he is the perfect complement to Trae.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

hawks_fan25 wrote: You almost have to look at the duo together and compare them to other PG/PF duos. I don't know percentages, but it feels like half of Trae's assists go to Collins.

Code: Select all

Young has 532 assists this season with 22 percent coming on baskets by Collins. 

According to NBA statistics, 18.4 percent of Young’s passes are to Collins and 51.9 percent of Collins’ passes are to Young.

AJC.com

Nathan2331 · Post #12 » by **Nathan2331** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:56 pm

Am I the only one who thinks John's defense isn't that bad? Looking at NBA.com, it is like opponents shoot 4.7% worse when Collins is defending them within 6 feet. Obviously he's not been able to convert his athleticism to blocked shots, but he still holds his own for the most part.

gurpilo · Post #13 » by **gurpilo** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:27 pm

AD and Anteto are clearly better.

Lamarcus and Blake Griffin are better today, I don't know about next season, Griffin is a player similar to Collins.

More doubts about Tobias and Kevin Love but they have demonstrated that they can produce those numbers on a winning team.

And there is a group, Harrell, Gordon, Sabonis, Markkanen, Siakam and Collins, probably John is the best of the but Siakam and Harrell are very good, it will be a dynamic ranking.

And then Bagley is coming strong and Zion.

I do not consider Doncic a PF

saloonyk8 · Post #14 » by **saloonyk8** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:31 pm

I would take the following players over Collins - KAT, Davis, Giannis, Durant, LMA, Blake.

That's not counting the LeBron, Kawhi, PG crew.

Even Blake and LMA have had the offense go through them on the court at multiples times, Collins has a way to go

King Ken · Post #15 » by **King Ken** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:33 pm

Nathan2331 wrote:Am I the only one who thinks John's defense isn't that bad? Looking at NBA.com, it is like opponents shoot 4.7% worse when Collins is defending them within 6 feet. Obviously he's not been able to convert his athleticism to blocked shots, but he still holds his own for the most part.

It's not that bad at times. At times it's good but we get so many defensive possessions because of our style of play that his defense can suffer just due to the constant up and down play. I personally think it's bad in space. Other then that, he's fine on D.

LeftHandThriller · Post #16 » by **LeftHandThriller** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:24 pm

dude is getting 20 and 10 in just 29 mins.
It takes others guys 35-38 minutes to get that kind of production. SHoots 57%fg and 38% from 3 too

peoriabird · Post #17 » by **peoriabird** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:52 pm

saloonyk8 wrote:I would take the following players over Collins - KAT, Davis, Giannis, Durant, LMA, Blake.

That's not counting the LeBron, Kawhi, PG crew.

Even Blake and LMA have had the offense go through them on the court at multiples times, Collins has a way to go

No freaking way I'm taking Blake or LMA over Collins. Them dudes have zero upside!

Nathan2331 · Post #18 » by **Nathan2331** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:05 pm

King Ken wrote:
Nathan2331 wrote:Am I the only one who thinks John's defense isn't that bad? Looking at NBA.com, it is like opponents shoot 4.7% worse when Collins is defending them within 6 feet. Obviously he's not been able to convert his athleticism to blocked shots, but he still holds his own for the most part.

It's not that bad at times. At times it's good but we get so many defensive possessions because of our style of play that his defense can suffer just due to the constant up and down play. I personally think it's bad in space. Other then that, he's fine on D.

I think he holds his own if he ever has to switch on the perimeter. He doesn't use any of his tools as well as he could, but it's not like he constantly is allowing his man to score. Only player that has made him look bad was Gianni's, but he dominates most forwards. Otherwise Collins is adequate as a PF. Hopefully he can become an asset as time goes on.

Atlantaholic · Post #19 » by **Atlantaholic** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:38 am

Collins isn't awful on defense, just not very good. The puzzling thing is his lack of blocks. He has been getting more blocks recently and with his crazy athleticism it only makes sense he will become at least a decent shotblocker. If he can develop that part of his game, which I think he will, he could be a more than adequate defender at the PF position. Still would love to pair him with a dominant defensive center ideally... but I don't think it's a "must" like some posters have been saying.

saloonyk8 · Post #20 » by **saloonyk8** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:52 am

peoriabird wrote:
saloonyk8 wrote:I would take the following players over Collins - KAT, Davis, Giannis, Durant, LMA, Blake.

That's not counting the LeBron, Kawhi, PG crew.

Even Blake and LMA have had the offense go through them on the court at multiples times, Collins has a way to go

No freaking way I'm taking Blake or LMA over Collins. Them dudes have zero upside!

The question was right now, present day, not upside.

If you had to play a game of aliens and needed a forward to save the world, Collins would be picked after those guys