Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

[lilfishi22]

A lot of it has to do with the lack of stability with our coaching staff and all the different things he was asked to do. Heck they even try to play him as point forward. His 1st year really brings the rest of his stats down. Also not having a legit PG hurts player development too. I don't think it's a coincidence that JJs 3pt shot drastically improved since acquiring Tyler Johnson. Make him do less. Same issues we've been having with Dragan Bender. He got drafted as a teen who barely got PT. Body underdeveloped and yet they've asked him to play 3-4-5. This year he finally worked on his body and things have also been simplified for him. A lot of these things can be attributed to bad coaching and poor personel. Plus like I said JJ is on a rookie deal and we can still raise his value with a great summer league and improvement next year.

EDIT: You don't move TJ in Favor of JJ. You move him cause he is your best asset and the current wings have made him replaceable. TJ will probably want to be starting as well. We need to upgrade PG and PF to be a perennial playoff contender and you can probably get a much much better return with TJ than you would with JJ.

It was never going to be a stable situation with the Suns. But the cream rises to the top. Bridges have done that, Oubre has done that, Warren has done that, Booker has done that, hell even Ayton has found a way to contribute on the defensive end. This is a results driven league and potential only keeps you in the league for so long. I've said this many times before, you're either an NBA player or you're not. So far he's shown to be a poor NBA player, the eye tests back it up, the raw stats backs it up and the advanced stats backs it up. Sometimes a player has the entire rookie contract to prove themselves and other times they don't, it's just how to league works. All the player can do is try and put their best foot forward but if it hasn't been enough when the team has to make priorities then what else can we do?

His 3pt shot has improved since we got Johnson but his 2PT% has absolutely tanked. Dragan Bender was a guy that never should've been drafted that early. He neither had the experience nor the physical maturity required to play in the NBA. Jackson was different, he played over 1000min in his college season.

I'm all for moving TJ in a trade to address a position of need if that's what it can get us. Not against that at all. But if we're talking about which wing is more expendable, it's clearly the guy who hasn't brought a ton to the table.

Speaking of results weren't we losing a ton even with TJ Warren. So while his efficiency is welcomed he barely moves the needle as far as wins. He's an average defender at best(and thats an upgrade from his first seasons whe he was putrid and PJ bailed him out) on top of it took him 4 seasons to get a respectable 3pt shot. He was always around 20-25%. Played a combined total of 87 games his first 2 years and started only 5. After 2 seasons at NC St. Where as Jackson was thrown to the wolves immediately playing 148 games his first 2 years and starting him 60, all of this while asking him to be an immediate contributor after just 1 season at Kansas. The nature of the league is that some players come into the league ready to ball and others take time, then there are the ones that land in perfect situations to flourish(pascal siakam). You can throw advanced stats and talk about usage but I reiterate when you throw that much on a rookies plate his first 2 years it can be overwhelming, specially without a legit coach and PG. IMO it would be wrong to trade JJ just cause we have TJ when he clearly is the odd man out. Lets not forget the chemistry factor. We have players in the locker room vouching for him whereas TJ is an after thought for a reason. I would much rather maximize TJs trade value(probably at an all time high) and roll the dice on JJ. We keep cap flexibility while upgrading the roster.

Yeah we were. NONE of our players save for maybe TJo comes close to a winning record so using wins as barometer for impact isn't exactly a useful measure.

I'll even say TJ isn't a very good defender. But JJ, despite his reputation, hasn't been good either. JJ is better but not by much. Last season I called TJ a bit of a one-trick pony only being able to score around the rim but this season adding a 3PT shot (which in itself, isn't a given for any young player) has made him a seriously useful player. The SUns aren't a good situation and no one aside from the legitimately good players would rise out of that mess. JJ hasn't done that despite everyone else on the team going through a similar situation. TJ has had to go through more coaching changes, added and subtracted PG's and going from an attempted retool to a complete rebuild to whatever we're doing this year. He's found a way to be productive. JJ has gone through half of that and hasn't shown he's productive.

Unless there's something legitimate we can trade TJ for, I'd certainly priorities keeping TJ over JJ. We should be done with the dice rolling, we've been doing that the last 4-5 seasons with the draft picks. It's time we build on what we have.

[SunsLyf3]

It was never going to be a stable situation with the Suns. But the cream rises to the top. Bridges have done that, Oubre has done that, Warren has done that, Booker has done that, hell even Ayton has found a way to contribute on the defensive end. This is a results driven league and potential only keeps you in the league for so long. I've said this many times before, you're either an NBA player or you're not. So far he's shown to be a poor NBA player, the eye tests back it up, the raw stats backs it up and the advanced stats backs it up. Sometimes a player has the entire rookie contract to prove themselves and other times they don't, it's just how to league works. All the player can do is try and put their best foot forward but if it hasn't been enough when the team has to make priorities then what else can we do?

His 3pt shot has improved since we got Johnson but his 2PT% has absolutely tanked. Dragan Bender was a guy that never should've been drafted that early. He neither had the experience nor the physical maturity required to play in the NBA. Jackson was different, he played over 1000min in his college season.

I'm all for moving TJ in a trade to address a position of need if that's what it can get us. Not against that at all. But if we're talking about which wing is more expendable, it's clearly the guy who hasn't brought a ton to the table.

Speaking of results weren't we losing a ton even with TJ Warren. So while his efficiency is welcomed he barely moves the needle as far as wins. He's an average defender at best(and thats an upgrade from his first seasons whe he was putrid and PJ bailed him out) on top of it took him 4 seasons to get a respectable 3pt shot. He was always around 20-25%. Played a combined total of 87 games his first 2 years and started only 5. After 2 seasons at NC St. Where as Jackson was thrown to the wolves immediately playing 148 games his first 2 years and starting him 60, all of this while asking him to be an immediate contributor after just 1 season at Kansas. The nature of the league is that some players come into the league ready to ball and others take time, then there are the ones that land in perfect situations to flourish(pascal siakam). You can throw advanced stats and talk about usage but I reiterate when you throw that much on a rookies plate his first 2 years it can be overwhelming, specially without a legit coach and PG. IMO it would be wrong to trade JJ just cause we have TJ when he clearly is the odd man out. Lets not forget the chemistry factor. We have players in the locker room vouching for him whereas TJ is an after thought for a reason. I would much rather maximize TJs trade value(probably at an all time high) and roll the dice on JJ. We keep cap flexibility while upgrading the roster.

Yeah we were. NONE of our players save for maybe TJo comes close to a winning record so using wins as barometer for impact isn't exactly a useful measure.

I'll even say TJ isn't a very good defender. But JJ, despite his reputation, hasn't been good either. JJ is better but not by much. Last season I called TJ a bit of a one-trick pony only being able to score around the rim but this season adding a 3PT shot (which in itself, isn't a given for any young player) has made him a seriously useful player. The SUns aren't a good situation and no one aside from the legitimately good players would rise out of that mess. JJ hasn't done that despite everyone else on the team going through a similar situation. TJ has had to go through more coaching changes, added and subtracted PG's and going from an attempted retool to a complete rebuild to whatever we're doing this year. He's found a way to be productive. JJ has gone through half of that and hasn't shown he's productive.

Unless there's something legitimate we can trade TJ for, I'd certainly priorities keeping TJ over JJ. We should be done with the dice rolling, we've been doing that the last 4-5 seasons with the draft picks. It's time we build on what we have.

That's kinda my point though. What we have currently that seems to be working hasn't included TJ cause he's been sidelined.

[Barkley6]

Speaking of results weren't we losing a ton even with TJ Warren. So while his efficiency is welcomed he barely moves the needle as far as wins. He's an average defender at best(and thats an upgrade from his first seasons whe he was putrid and PJ bailed him out) on top of it took him 4 seasons to get a respectable 3pt shot. He was always around 20-25%. Played a combined total of 87 games his first 2 years and started only 5. After 2 seasons at NC St. Where as Jackson was thrown to the wolves immediately playing 148 games his first 2 years and starting him 60, all of this while asking him to be an immediate contributor after just 1 season at Kansas. The nature of the league is that some players come into the league ready to ball and others take time, then there are the ones that land in perfect situations to flourish(pascal siakam). You can throw advanced stats and talk about usage but I reiterate when you throw that much on a rookies plate his first 2 years it can be overwhelming, specially without a legit coach and PG. IMO it would be wrong to trade JJ just cause we have TJ when he clearly is the odd man out. Lets not forget the chemistry factor. We have players in the locker room vouching for him whereas TJ is an after thought for a reason. I would much rather maximize TJs trade value(probably at an all time high) and roll the dice on JJ. We keep cap flexibility while upgrading the roster.

Yeah we were. NONE of our players save for maybe TJo comes close to a winning record so using wins as barometer for impact isn't exactly a useful measure.

I'll even say TJ isn't a very good defender. But JJ, despite his reputation, hasn't been good either. JJ is better but not by much. Last season I called TJ a bit of a one-trick pony only being able to score around the rim but this season adding a 3PT shot (which in itself, isn't a given for any young player) has made him a seriously useful player. The SUns aren't a good situation and no one aside from the legitimately good players would rise out of that mess. JJ hasn't done that despite everyone else on the team going through a similar situation. TJ has had to go through more coaching changes, added and subtracted PG's and going from an attempted retool to a complete rebuild to whatever we're doing this year. He's found a way to be productive. JJ has gone through half of that and hasn't shown he's productive.

Unless there's something legitimate we can trade TJ for, I'd certainly priorities keeping TJ over JJ. We should be done with the dice rolling, we've been doing that the last 4-5 seasons with the draft picks. It's time we build on what we have.

That's kinda my point though. What we have currently that seems to be working hasn't included TJ cause he's been sidelined.

Yeah, and think about how much better we could be with another consistent perimeter threat. Think about how much more space Ayton would have to operate. think if we gave the 20 minutes per night we've been splitting between Crawford and Daniels we played TJ Warren. He'd immediately be a top bench scorer and would allow us to rest guys like Oubre and Booker longer. You add Warren to lineups with Bridges and Holmes and suddenly you're getting solid offense AND defense off the bench.

I hope we get to see TJ in the last 10 games. We need to really see if he can be a part of this reborn Suns team.

[lilfishi22]

Speaking of results weren't we losing a ton even with TJ Warren. So while his efficiency is welcomed he barely moves the needle as far as wins. He's an average defender at best(and thats an upgrade from his first seasons whe he was putrid and PJ bailed him out) on top of it took him 4 seasons to get a respectable 3pt shot. He was always around 20-25%. Played a combined total of 87 games his first 2 years and started only 5. After 2 seasons at NC St. Where as Jackson was thrown to the wolves immediately playing 148 games his first 2 years and starting him 60, all of this while asking him to be an immediate contributor after just 1 season at Kansas. The nature of the league is that some players come into the league ready to ball and others take time, then there are the ones that land in perfect situations to flourish(pascal siakam). You can throw advanced stats and talk about usage but I reiterate when you throw that much on a rookies plate his first 2 years it can be overwhelming, specially without a legit coach and PG. IMO it would be wrong to trade JJ just cause we have TJ when he clearly is the odd man out. Lets not forget the chemistry factor. We have players in the locker room vouching for him whereas TJ is an after thought for a reason. I would much rather maximize TJs trade value(probably at an all time high) and roll the dice on JJ. We keep cap flexibility while upgrading the roster.

Yeah we were. NONE of our players save for maybe TJo comes close to a winning record so using wins as barometer for impact isn't exactly a useful measure.

I'll even say TJ isn't a very good defender. But JJ, despite his reputation, hasn't been good either. JJ is better but not by much. Last season I called TJ a bit of a one-trick pony only being able to score around the rim but this season adding a 3PT shot (which in itself, isn't a given for any young player) has made him a seriously useful player. The SUns aren't a good situation and no one aside from the legitimately good players would rise out of that mess. JJ hasn't done that despite everyone else on the team going through a similar situation. TJ has had to go through more coaching changes, added and subtracted PG's and going from an attempted retool to a complete rebuild to whatever we're doing this year. He's found a way to be productive. JJ has gone through half of that and hasn't shown he's productive.

Unless there's something legitimate we can trade TJ for, I'd certainly priorities keeping TJ over JJ. We should be done with the dice rolling, we've been doing that the last 4-5 seasons with the draft picks. It's time we build on what we have.

That's kinda my point though. What we have currently that seems to be working hasn't included TJ cause he's been sidelined.

So anyone that isn't playing or hasn't contributed to this small 10 game is proof that they are expendable?

We don't disagree that if TJ can get us something solid in one of the two needed positions that we should do it. Where we don't agree is that JJ is somehow more valuable than TJ

[Blonde]

A lot of Ryan McDonough thinking going on here. “Our key offseason additions are getting back a healthy TJ Warren and Tyler Johnson having an offseason to work out with the guys! Add another top 5 pick and we feel we can be the most improved team in the league.”

We can and should do better than bringing everyone back.

[Kerrsed]

If we landed the #2 pick, who would be up for a trade with Atlanta for their 2 picks? Should be like #5 and #7.

If we did that we very well could still have a shot at Ja (Atlanta's not taking him with Young, and some other high pick teams will go with the Dukies rather than a PG). It could give us a chance at both Ja and Clarke.....or even just one of those and the option to flip the other pick for an already established player.

Also, man, i was looking up some lessor talked about guys, People that i thought could have been in the Mitchell Robinson category (Guys not being really talked about for some reason or another but could have a nice career in the league), Didnt realize that the draft's #2 PG Darius Garland who was somewhat highly touted before going down with a torn meniscus has signed with Klutch....so that looks like a hard pass from me. Also was reading about a 5 star recruit by the name of Darius Bazley, who originally committed to Syracuse, but decided to back out and go straight to the G-League......well that was before Klutch decided to sign him and he decided to then pass on that as well and take a 3 month internship at New Balance for $1M instead.

God i hate Klutch!

[WeekapaugGroove]

I hope they move a guy or two and solve the wing log jam simply because I'm so sick of going into a season with a weird imbalanced roster for like the 4th year in a row. At the bare minimum I want them to put a team on the floor that makes sense. No glaring weaknesses or weird overloads.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[Qwigglez]

I’d like to think maybe the front office talks to Bender at the end of the season, tell him we really like what he’s done the last two months. He plays hard defense, and is always looking to better his teammates. Completely unselfish player. I’d like to see the Suns keep him around, maybe a two year deal worth $3M each season.
Oubre is going to be hard to gauge, as I could see a team like Dallas missing out on big time players like Kemba Walker, and then settling for KO. I’d like for the Suns to approach Oubre and tell him we’d like to keep him, give him a 5 year deal worth $80M. He’s probably expected to receive a 4 year deal worth $70M so if we were to get him on a 5 year deal worth $80M I’d think that’s a bargain. We have to give him this contract after we fill other holes though so we can go over the cap. Preferably a deal similar to Aaron Gordon of the Magic where he makes the most on the first year of his contract.
Holmes has been a great energy guy but those bigs are a dime a dozen. I’m in the camp we just let him go unless he wants $2M a season, otherwise I think it’s a safe bet we can probably keep Ray Spalding for the veteran minimum, something under $1M for next season.
Besides our draft picks, Tyler Johnson is probably our best asset since he’ll be an expiring contract. As good as he’s been for us and the impact he’s had in the locker room he simply isn’t worth his contract.
TJ Warren still has three year left on his contract and is very affordable. I’d prefer we keep him as our sixth man, however if he is needed as part of a trade for a quality PG then we trade him.
Josh Jackson is also trade bait. If a team prefers him over Warren because he’s younger and still on his rookie contract that’d be great. If we end up keeping him I see a similar situation like Stanley Johnson with the Pistons where they basically gave him up for free after 3 and a half years.

All in all I’d like to bring back Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Warren, Bender, Melton. Hopefully our roster is upgraded with veterans.

[Kerrsed]

Unpopular Opinion: Spalding >>>>> Bender.

I think Spalding showed more in the 15 minutes he played last night than Bender has for the majority of the season. Spalding was thrown into the game out of nowhere, playing against on of the best PF's in the game, and played outstanding. He has that G-League Hunger rather than that soft Euro-trash timidness.

I would rather take Spalding on his very very low dollar guaranteed contract over spending on a Bender next year.

[Qwigglez]

Unpopular Opinion: Spalding >>>>> Bender.

I think Spalding showed more in the 15 minutes he played last night than Bender has for the majority of the season. Spalding was thrown into the game out of nowhere, playing against on of the best PF's in the game, and played outstanding. He has that G-League Hunger rather than that soft Euro-trash timidness.

I would rather take Spalding on his very very low dollar guaranteed contract over spending on a Bender next year.

Two completely different kind of players and a little bit of redundancy if we were to keep Spalding AND Holmes IMO. Bender still plays really good defense, makes good reads on plays, and can open the floor up by hitting threes. I’d like to go into next season with both of those guys. If Bender can just gain some confidence this offseason I think that would add a lot to his game.

[Kerrsed]

Unpopular Opinion: Spalding >>>>> Bender.

I think Spalding showed more in the 15 minutes he played last night than Bender has for the majority of the season. Spalding was thrown into the game out of nowhere, playing against on of the best PF's in the game, and played outstanding. He has that G-League Hunger rather than that soft Euro-trash timidness.

I would rather take Spalding on his very very low dollar guaranteed contract over spending on a Bender next year.

Two completely different kind of players and a little bit of redundancy if we were to keep Spalding AND Holmes IMO. Bender still plays really good defense, makes good reads on plays, and can open the floor up by hitting threes. I’d like to go into next season with both of those guys. If Bender can just gain some confidence this offseason I think that would add a lot to his game.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Unpopular Opinion: Spalding >>>>> Bender.

I think Spalding showed more in the 15 minutes he played last night than Bender has for the majority of the season. Spalding was thrown into the game out of nowhere, playing against on of the best PF's in the game, and played outstanding. He has that G-League Hunger rather than that soft Euro-trash timidness.

I would rather take Spalding on his very very low dollar guaranteed contract over spending on a Bender next year.

Two completely different kind of players and a little bit of redundancy if we were to keep Spalding AND Holmes IMO. Bender still plays really good defense, makes good reads on plays, and can open the floor up by hitting threes. I’d like to go into next season with both of those guys. If Bender can just gain some confidence this offseason I think that would add a lot to his game.

I'm sorry but you just can't have a 0% FT shooter in this league. (sample size alert!)

For real though, I liked what I saw out of Spalding last night, though he looks to have a center's game at this stage. Let's see what happens here down the stretch.

[bwgood77]

That's kinda my point though. What we have currently that seems to be working hasn't included TJ cause he's been sidelined.

We were playing pretty well before TJ got hurt though, beating Denver and Sacramento and losing to Dallas only because Doncic got gifted free throws down the stretch.

We also lost on buzzer beaters to the Raptors and Timberwolves.

Then he got injured and we lost a ton of games in a row without him before Tyler Johnson arrived. The team was clearly better with him. And it's clearly better with Tyler Johnson. There is no reason to think it wouldn't be even better with both of them.

[bwgood77]

A lot of Ryan McDonough thinking going on here. “Our key offseason additions are getting back a healthy TJ Warren and Tyler Johnson having an offseason to work out with the guys! Add another top 5 pick and we feel we can be the most improved team in the league.”

We can and should do better than bringing everyone back.

No one is saying not to make moves to make us better if they are out there, and there are multiple ways to do it. McD was about trading and adding guys who didn't help and wasting a bunch of cap space. I've always felt we needed some continuity and to grow organically for a while. That's what rebuilding teams do, and they have solid chemistry. But we can deal our pick for cap space, trade JJ, etc...and have maybe $10 million or so to work with keeping who we have...but can easily add more with those moves.

I could see them doing a TJ for Rozier sign and trade swap though, so maybe you will get your wish to get some changes. Be nice if it was JJ though Ainge probably doesn't care to have him for multiple reasons.

[bwgood77]

Unpopular Opinion: Spalding >>>>> Bender.

I think Spalding showed more in the 15 minutes he played last night than Bender has for the majority of the season. Spalding was thrown into the game out of nowhere, playing against on of the best PF's in the game, and played outstanding. He has that G-League Hunger rather than that soft Euro-trash timidness.

I would rather take Spalding on his very very low dollar guaranteed contract over spending on a Bender next year.

He played very well but it's a little early to proclaim that. He also had 5 fouls and 2 turnovers in those 15 minutes. But he looked good so it will be interesting to see if he gets more time and plays well. One thing I love about Bender as of late is his chemistry with Ayton.

I don't expect to keep him though.

[Blonde]

A lot of Ryan McDonough thinking going on here. “Our key offseason additions are getting back a healthy TJ Warren and Tyler Johnson having an offseason to work out with the guys! Add another top 5 pick and we feel we can be the most improved team in the league.”

We can and should do better than bringing everyone back.

No one is saying not to make moves to make us better if they are out there, and there are multiple ways to do it. McD was about trading and adding guys who didn't help and wasting a bunch of cap space. I've always felt we needed some continuity and to grow organically for a while. That's what rebuilding teams do, and they have solid chemistry. But we can deal our pick for cap space, trade JJ, etc...and have maybe $10 million or so to work with keeping who we have...but can easily add more with those moves.

I could see them doing a TJ for Rozier sign and trade swap though, so maybe you will get your wish to get some changes. Be nice if it was JJ though Ainge probably doesn't care to have him for multiple reasons.

Do you intentionally distort people's points of view or just being cheeky? Pretty impudent nonetheless.

[jcsunsfan]

If we landed the #2 pick, who would be up for a trade with Atlanta for their 2 picks? Should be like #5 and #7.

If we did that we very well could still have a shot at Ja (Atlanta's not taking him with Young, and some other high pick teams will go with the Dukies rather than a PG). It could give us a chance at both Ja and Clarke.....or even just one of those and the option to flip the other pick for an already established player.

Also, man, i was looking up some lessor talked about guys, People that i thought could have been in the Mitchell Robinson category (Guys not being really talked about for some reason or another but could have a nice career in the league), Didnt realize that the draft's #2 PG Darius Garland who was somewhat highly touted before going down with a torn meniscus has signed with Klutch....so that looks like a hard pass from me. Also was reading about a 5 star recruit by the name of Darius Bazley, who originally committed to Syracuse, but decided to back out and go straight to the G-League......well that was before Klutch decided to sign him and he decided to then pass on that as well and take a 3 month internship at New Balance for $1M instead.

God i hate Klutch!

One rookie. That's all. Maybe could trade the extra pick and get a vet pf.

[Kerrsed]

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So Rubio definitely seems to be out of Utahs future plans. I mean they made a push for Conley at the trade deadline already..... so it looks like they view him as an upgrade over Ricky.

Got to wonder what Rubios price tag is going to be and who's going to have the cash and capspace and need for his services.

[BobbieL]

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So Rubio definitely seems to be out of Utahs future plans. I mean they made a push for Conley at the trade deadline already..... so it looks like they view him as an upgrade over Ricky.

Got to wonder what Rubios price tag is going to be and who's going to have the cash and capspace and need for his services.

Was about to post this -- so thanks. I still think the Suns need a PG. I know the cap space will be tight. But trading JJ and the FRP or Warren and the FRP pick - would allow probably Rubio and a true 4. I am fine keeping Bender for another year - but don't trust him yet to start.

[JJ13]

What are the Nets going to do with DLo? Dinwiddie is signed long term, and it would be a lot of $ in one position to match the offer Russell will get. I believe you can S&T a Rfa with certain conditions. Assuming this applies, perhaps a S&T for TJ? Nets ranking last in Offense after the break...

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