GT: Nets @ LA Clippers - Sunday, 3/17/19, 9:00pm

[SpeedyG]

Firing Kenny would be stupid right now. I've been he's toughest critic, and while he still needs to improve, he at least has shown improvements this season. If he makes a jump next season like he did this season, great.

I'm not really sure what people are upset about. We knew it was going to be a tough road trip. Every single game will have a playoff level intensity (with the exception of perhaps the Lakers game).

As I said, shooting masks the flaws of this team. We were red hot in the 1st quarter and we killed them.

Then we went cold, they got long rebounds, offense stagnated (due to them being aggressive and switching) and boom, lead gone.

We also got killed again on the boards.

This has been an on-going thing this season (and really all of Kenny's stint). Combination of philosophy and personnel, but it is what it is.

Doesn't help that Rodi got caught being too aggressive and basically fouled out without having made much impact.

We dont have the size to compete with big physical fronts.

The games where we do (Detroit) are the aberration, not the norm.

That's the formula to beating this team: switch aggressively on defense, pound it inside. Contest as many threes and hope we miss.

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The 2nd chance points were absolute backbreakers. I think they were like +20 on 2nd chance rebounds

I don't necessarily want to chalk that up to size either, those long rebounds seem to be a constant issue with this team. I don't know how to fix that or if personnel can be adjusted to fix it.

It's personnel and scheme, and I'm not sure what we can do without sacrificing something else (which is why I've said so many times how the perfect 4 for this team is really tough to find).

Scheme is an issue because we played a lot of zone, and zone is more difficult to rebound from than man. That's basketball 101. A handful of rebounds we lost because we didn't box out. Again, easier to box out in man vs zone. Not impossible, just requires more effort and awareness.

2nd scheme issue: how do you attack the 2-3? By initiating your offense from the middle. What happens when teams do that? It pulls Allen out a bit and now you're relying on Joe/Graham/Carroll/Rodi (whoever is at 3/4) to defend the corner three and rebound. Because they are essentially attacking Allen, he is being taken out of rebound position especially if he challenges the shot.

Then, you compound those with our tendency to play small.

Now while our wings could have done a better job boxing out (I actually felt they were crashing hard, and that aggressiveness went against them because they weren't boxing out) there is not much you can do when it comes to size (zoubek and tez really got great position inside a lot).

So what can you do?

Play more man and switch? We're vulnerable to having our guards posted up on. Some teams it might be OK with our length but not against Harrell who killed us.

Play a bigger 4? Well, we don't really have any "big" 4 anymore. And doing so will affect offensive spacing. So doing this requires us adjusting offensively, with no guarantee it will fix rebounding. Our only option would have been Dudley and RJ, and neither would have been able to handle Harrell down low.

And while our 2-3 have been gashed a lot lately, it actually kind of bothered and disrupted their offense a bit. Our initial defense was decent, we just couldn't secure rebounds to protect the possession.

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[kamaze]

Every game he commits at least one or two silly foul that makes you say wtf. But he’s a young player but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating.

Idk what Crabbe we would’ve gotten tonight. He’s extremely streaky.

Nine points and his defense and they would've won.

Maybe but it still doesn’t negate from my point. But at least he’d take minutes away from Graham so there’s that.

Graham gets minutes at power forward Crabbe is a guard/small forward him playing wouldn't effect Graham's minutes at all.

[NetsJets]

Nine points and his defense and they would've won.

Maybe but it still doesn’t negate from my point. But at least he’d take minutes away from Graham so there’s that.

Graham gets minutes at power forward Crabbe is a guard/small forward him playing wouldn't effect Graham's minutes at all.

It would by shortening the rotation. And Graham plays the 3 as well.

[MrDollarBills]

You know what's crazy is that there really wasn't much of a rebounding disparity between the Clips and Nets. Nets had 51 rebs(15 offensive) to Clippers' 54 rebs(16 offensive).

[SpeedyG]

You know what's crazy is that there really wasn't much of a rebounding disparity between the Clips and Nets. Nets had 51 rebs(15 offensive) to Clippers' 54 rebs(16 offensive).

Which is why stats can be misleading. Statistically, were not a "bad" rebounding team. We're actually a pretty good OREB team (special thanks to Ed). And our totals as far as defensive rebounds isn't bad either (11th overall) but our DREB% is 24th (compared to 10th in OREB%).

This also corresponds to 2nd chance points allowed (27th ranked).

So while our defensive rating doesn't look bad and our small lineups probably help us defensively, it doesn't matter much (esp vs certain matchups) because we don't secure the dreb and allow them to score right off it.

When you combine that 2nd chance pts allowed with points off turnovers (23rd), you really see two things that if we limit...we would be in good shape.



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[CalamityX12]

Another game where you can't understand how we ended up on the losing end(again) after such a dominating start...

I want to remove the last minute of the game from the rest of the game, those guys played very well to tie up the game...

the rest was terrible for losing a 19 pt lead... too many off rebounds, Graham literally does nothing on defense to justify his rotation mintues, Levert a bit sloppy from time to time, Dinwiddie started off and went cold too long, Allen didn't have a good gm overall but he had some good moments, Zone defense maybe overplayed? Kenny, eh I didn't realize he bench Dlo… I did notice he kept him and others in foul trouble too long though....

Hope this isn't the last of Kurocs we see for a long time.

Zone defense kept us in this game. our man to man was awful. it typically is. we need to play zone a ton. if not we will have more games where we get our doors blown off

man to man defense is this teams achillies heel

toward the end thought we could've broken out of zone. Clippers had a lot of guys free near the basket at times however the ball handler would react too late to hit them.

[Prokorov]

Firing Kenny would be stupid right now. I've been he's toughest critic, and while he still needs to improve, he at least has shown improvements this season. If he makes a jump next season like he did this season, great.

I'm not really sure what people are upset about. We knew it was going to be a tough road trip. Every single game will have a playoff level intensity (with the exception of perhaps the Lakers game).

As I said, shooting masks the flaws of this team. We were red hot in the 1st quarter and we killed them.

Then we went cold, they got long rebounds, offense stagnated (due to them being aggressive and switching) and boom, lead gone.

We also got killed again on the boards.

This has been an on-going thing this season (and really all of Kenny's stint). Combination of philosophy and personnel, but it is what it is.

Doesn't help that Rodi got caught being too aggressive and basically fouled out without having made much impact.

We dont have the size to compete with big physical fronts.

The games where we do (Detroit) are the aberration, not the norm.

That's the formula to beating this team: switch aggressively on defense, pound it inside. Contest as many threes and hope we miss.

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The 2nd chance points were absolute backbreakers. I think they were like +20 on 2nd chance rebounds

I don't necessarily want to chalk that up to size either, those long rebounds seem to be a constant issue with this team. I don't know how to fix that or if personnel can be adjusted to fix it.

It's personnel and scheme, and I'm not sure what we can do without sacrificing something else (which is why I've said so many times how the perfect 4 for this team is really tough to find).

Scheme is an issue because we played a lot of zone, and zone is more difficult to rebound from than man. That's basketball 101. A handful of rebounds we lost because we didn't box out. Again, easier to box out in man vs zone. Not impossible, just requires more effort and awareness.

2nd scheme issue: how do you attack the 2-3? By initiating your offense from the middle. What happens when teams do that? It pulls Allen out a bit and now you're relying on Joe/Graham/Carroll/Rodi (whoever is at 3/4) to defend the corner three and rebound. Because they are essentially attacking Allen, he is being taken out of rebound position especially if he challenges the shot.

Then, you compound those with our tendency to play small.

Now while our wings could have done a better job boxing out (I actually felt they were crashing hard, and that aggressiveness went against them because they weren't boxing out) there is not much you can do when it comes to size (zoubek and tez really got great position inside a lot).

So what can you do?

Play more man and switch? We're vulnerable to having our guards posted up on. Some teams it might be OK with our length but not against Harrell who killed us.

Play a bigger 4? Well, we don't really have any "big" 4 anymore. And doing so will affect offensive spacing. So doing this requires us adjusting offensively, with no guarantee it will fix rebounding. Our only option would have been Dudley and RJ, and neither would have been able to handle Harrell down low.

And while our 2-3 have been gashed a lot lately, it actually kind of bothered and disrupted their offense a bit. Our initial defense was decent, we just couldn't secure rebounds to protect the possession.

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ypu also need to consider the positives from going with a smaller PF/4.

we allow the 5th fewest 3 point attempts in the league and we hold our opponents to the 3rd worst 3-point shooting percentage

in todays NBA that holds so much more value then rebounding or post defense.

[MrDollarBills]

I think Speedy nailed it on the head when he brought up how we're near the bottom in 2nd chance points allowed. How does the team resolve this? I think that's a legitimate concern. It's deflating every time the Nets play good defense on contesting threes and drives to the rim only to have someone sneak in and steal another possession for the opponent.

[SpeedyG]

I think Speedy nailed it on the head when he brought up how we're near the bottom in 2nd chance points allowed. How does the team resolve this? I think that's a legitimate concern. It's deflating every time the Nets play good defense on contesting threes and drives to the rim only to have someone sneak in and steal another possession for the opponent.

Yep. But hey, analytics doesn't factor in momentum or how game flow or how deflating it is when you give up these baskets...

But sure, let's ignore basic basketball as we smash our heads into analytics while ignoring fundamentals of the sport.

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[Prokorov]

I think Speedy nailed it on the head when he brought up how we're near the bottom in 2nd chance points allowed. How does the team resolve this? I think that's a legitimate concern. It's deflating every time the Nets play good defense on contesting threes and drives to the rim only to have someone sneak in and steal another possession for the opponent.

I don't think it is an issue. you live with it because you are limiting threes and free throws. those are the 2 most efficient shots in basketball. if it coest you second chance points, you live with it.

i you look at other teams in the bottom 10 the past decade, its littered with champions, contenders, playoff teams.

ideally your center is eventually good enough to clean the glass and your PF can chip in more. like if Allen got to tyson chandler levels where he got stronger, grabbed 12 rebounds a game and our PF was closer to something like tobias who can get you 8 rebounds a game you drastically cut down those 2nd change opportunities.

Allen will get bigger and stronger. that part will take care of itself... and they will make runs at harris/kawhi and look to draft a harris/kawhi type.

but this is a super minor issue when compared to how outstanding we are gaurding the three

[MGrand15]

I think Speedy nailed it on the head when he brought up how we're near the bottom in 2nd chance points allowed. How does the team resolve this? I think that's a legitimate concern. It's deflating every time the Nets play good defense on contesting threes and drives to the rim only to have someone sneak in and steal another possession for the opponent.

Yep. But hey, analytics doesn't factor in momentum or how game flow or how deflating it is when you give up these baskets...

But sure, let's ignore basic basketball as we smash our heads into analytics while ignoring fundamentals of the sport.

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I don't think the team ignores basic basketball at all. Prok just ignores common sense as a way to defend Kenny.

Atkinson has been preaching and worried about rebounding since the all star break started. He said it was his main concern. He's never minimized it as this minor thing because we're stopping the 3. Analytically, offensive rebounds are NOT good to give up. They lead to layups, FTs, and open 3s.

It's tough to resolve this year but hopefully should be less of a problem once Rodi + Allen bulk up.

[SpeedyG]

I think Speedy nailed it on the head when he brought up how we're near the bottom in 2nd chance points allowed. How does the team resolve this? I think that's a legitimate concern. It's deflating every time the Nets play good defense on contesting threes and drives to the rim only to have someone sneak in and steal another possession for the opponent.

Yep. But hey, analytics doesn't factor in momentum or how game flow or how deflating it is when you give up these baskets...

But sure, let's ignore basic basketball as we smash our heads into analytics while ignoring fundamentals of the sport.

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I don't think the team ignores basic basketball at all. Prok just ignores common sense as a way to defend Kenny.

Atkinson has been preaching and worried about rebounding since the all star break started. He said it was his main concern. He's never minimized it as this minor thing because we're stopping the 3. Analytically, offensive rebounds are NOT good to give up. They lead to layups, FTs, and open 3s.

It's tough to resolve this year but hopefully should be less of a problem once Rodi + Allen bulk up.

Yeah I agree. And as I said, at this point trying to fix it means sacrificing something else. But at some point, we have to ask the question and say enough is enough. You don't have to change your philosophy for the entire season, but you do have to adjust situationally.

Our playstyle is basically a double-down on our small ball play/three point shooting.

When we make our shots, its great. The ball moves because defenses scramble around to cover our shooters. Because we're making shots, they don't get out on a fast break or get points of turnovers.

But when it's not going down, defenses can be aggressive in blitzing/trapping/switching our ball handlers

Our possession typically become swinging ball around with nothing happening because of the defenses aggressiveness and we end up forcing it to the teeth of the defense or forcing a contested three.

BTW as a side note...we need to start hitting our FTs.

All of our remaining games should be close and those "freebies" that we miss add up



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