Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[thricethefun]

Problem is we can't really do anything with just Davis and maybe a 75% Wall.

[nate33]

Hey guys, how's everyone? My first post in a while here. I am of the mindset that we should cash in on Beal's tremendous growth this season this summer and look to move him. While Beal is awesome it will be hard to see us building a contender with Wall and Beal both making so much money and Wall not being what he was after the Achilles. I don't see us as a very forward thinking organization so I don't see Ted actually signing off on this but I think if our goal is actually building a contender in the future I do think the Beal trade would get us on the right track.

I was in favor of that plan 2 months ago when Beal was a borderline All-Star but not necessarily a superstar. It was possible to envision some trades where we got back enough value to justify trading Beal. I don't think that's the case anymore. Beal has emerged as a legit All-NBA caliber player. Since Wall's injury, Beal has averaged 29, 7 and 6 with a .600 TS%. That's 25-year-old James Harden caliber production - a true superstar. Teams never get fair value when they trade a superstar.

Just name me the trade scenario where a team gives fair value for Beal and I'll consider it. I just can't think of one, short of Dallas or New York landing Zion and trading him for Beal. I wouldn't trade Beal for the poo-poo platter of mediocre young Lakers prospects for example. And I wouldn't trade him for a collection of future 1sts belonging to a team that had Beal carrying them to a .500 or better record.

And going back to 2 months ago, a trade revolving around Beal and Anthony Davis would have been laughable, but now... Beal and next year's first for Davis would at least be somewhat reasonable - if both teams felt they had a good shot at re-signing them.

To be honest, I think we could trade Beal straight up for Davis, without throwing in a pick, and it would be the best deal on the table for New Orleans.

But as thricethefun points out, the move wouldn't make a lot of sense for us. Without Beal, it would just be Davis toiling on another bad team. He wanted to leave New Orleans because of all the losing. Why would he want to stay here?

[Dark Faze]

If Beal makes all-nba, you'd be a fool not to trade him. We're not going anywhere. Before it was like eh...we wouldn't get much value anyway. But with him putting up these numbers it changes the game a lot--you're offering a 26, 5, 5 player in his prime with a full extension. That should be worth any player in the draft not named Williamson. IMO the ideal situation might be the Suns landing the second pick. If I'm the Suns and its a choice between a 4 year extended Brad Beal and Ja Morant, I'd take Brad and have him play the point. The teams simply done too much losing to wait for another player to develop over a proven all nba talent, unless that player is Zion. Beal/Booker/Oubre/Bridges/Ayton is pretty exciting. Even still...I'd almost feel like #2 overall might not be enough value.

The other scenarios are a lot less interesting unfortunately. The Knicks have no salary to trade for Brad. The Cavs would likely prefer Morant/Barrett over Brad because of how early they are in their own rebuild. The Hawks would probably be intrigued at a Trey Young/Brad Beal back court, except I imagine they know they are early enough in their rebuild that they'd prefer to keep both their lottery picks. Still though they do have some pieces--Huerter, Young, Prince, Collins. Adding Brad, and having some money left over for free agents--wouldn't shock me if they'd be interested. Still, would I be willing to move Brad for #5 and #6?

After that there's the Lakers and Boston. Beal for Lonzo and Ingram and #12 would be...aight. People here like the pair more than I do. Boston will probably hold their horde of talent for a deal with the Pelicans.

[Dark Faze]

Just name me the trade scenario where a team gives fair value for Beal and I'll consider it. I just can't think of one, short of Dallas or New York landing Zion and trading him for Beal. I wouldn't trade Beal for the poo-poo platter of mediocre young Lakers prospects for example. And I wouldn't trade him for a collection of future 1sts belonging to a team that had Beal carrying them to a .500 or better record.

Value is the hard part. I'm having a hard time finding fair value in the deals I posted earlier. Even the #2 in Ja Morant feels like not fair value. And #5 and #6 from the Hawks is weak as well. Zion would obviously be ideal, but I don't see any team giving him up if they nab him.

On the otherhand, two guys making the supermax is unprecedented so far in the league. Even Westbrook and George aren't coming close to what a Wall and Beal tandem would be making. Suffice to say, chances of us being good are unlikely. Possibly we could continue being mediocre, and at least we get to enjoy Brads play in that scenario, but I'm not sure if that's a responsible course of action. The goal should be to if nothing else at least strive to be a conference finals team.

[Ruzious]

I was in favor of that plan 2 months ago when Beal was a borderline All-Star but not necessarily a superstar. It was possible to envision some trades where we got back enough value to justify trading Beal. I don't think that's the case anymore. Beal has emerged as a legit All-NBA caliber player. Since Wall's injury, Beal has averaged 29, 7 and 6 with a .600 TS%. That's 25-year-old James Harden caliber production - a true superstar. Teams never get fair value when they trade a superstar.

Just name me the trade scenario where a team gives fair value for Beal and I'll consider it. I just can't think of one, short of Dallas or New York landing Zion and trading him for Beal. I wouldn't trade Beal for the poo-poo platter of mediocre young Lakers prospects for example. And I wouldn't trade him for a collection of future 1sts belonging to a team that had Beal carrying them to a .500 or better record.

And going back to 2 months ago, a trade revolving around Beal and Anthony Davis would have been laughable, but now... Beal and next year's first for Davis would at least be somewhat reasonable - if both teams felt they had a good shot at re-signing them.

To be honest, I think we could trade Beal straight up for Davis, without throwing in a pick, and it would be the best deal on the table for New Orleans.

But as thricethefun points out, the move wouldn't make a lot of sense for us. Without Beal, it would just be Davis toiling on another bad team. He wanted to leave New Orleans because of all the losing. Why would he want to stay here?

I disagree - mainly because I think there's still a very big difference between the East and the West - which somewhat hides the difference between Davis and Beal. As good as Beal is, Davis is still significantly better - and signivicantly better on both ends of the court. He's a player you can build a championship team around. It hasn't happened because of terrible management and being in the West. And he's quick enough to defend in the manner that Milwaukee has Giannis defend - as a roving PF - and Giannis might be DPOY. Davis can do what Giannis does plus he has 3 point range.

Wiz can re-sign their RFA's - Sato, Bryant, Dekker, McRea, and Devin Robinson all to 3 or 4 year contracts, still have Brown and Howard. They still have the MLE and a metric ton of player exceptions of different shapes and sizes. And we have a lotto pick - say we get Garland - which I think is reasonable. I'd probably even pass on both Portis and Parker - only keep Parker if he's 5 mil or less. One UFA I'd focus on is Jeremy Lamb - who quietly does well each year even though he still hasn't hit his stride on 3's. Maybe add a cheap veteran PG like Elfrid Payton - who plays defense is trying to re-build his value after having a bunch of injuries. When you have an MVP type player, it's so much easier to build a top team. And then we either build a Wall or hit a Wall.

[Dark Faze]

the speed with which Davis would leave Washington is crazy

[itlnsunsfan]

Phoenix Suns fan here. What would get a deal done for Beal, barring Booker and Ayton? As a starting point, would there be any interest in our pick, Warren, Jackson, Johnson, Bucks pick? Just for clarity, that's a likely top 5 pick (of course, no deal if it ends up being Zion), a highly efficient 18-20 ppg scorer on a great contract, a young prospect, a large expiring contract, and another late first rounder. If no, what if we threw in our 2021 pick? Do you think this is an attractive trade package?

[trast66]

Phoenix Suns fan here. What would get a deal done for Beal, barring Booker and Ayton? As a starting point, would there be any interest in our pick, Warren, Jackson, Johnson, Bucks pick? Just for clarity, that's a likely top 5 pick (of course, no deal if it ends up being Zion), a highly efficient 18-20 ppg scorer on a great contract, a young prospect, a large expiring contract, and another late first rounder. If no, what if we threw in our 2021 pick? Do you think this is an attractive trade package?

Our owner would not be interested - his goal is to make the playoffs not rebuild. Maybe if Brad demands a trade next trade deadline and you all are still a top 5 bad team would revisit. Or if you have any interest in taking John Wall.

How you all like Oubre?

[itlnsunsfan]

Phoenix Suns fan here. What would get a deal done for Beal, barring Booker and Ayton? As a starting point, would there be any interest in our pick, Warren, Jackson, Johnson, Bucks pick? Just for clarity, that's a likely top 5 pick (of course, no deal if it ends up being Zion), a highly efficient 18-20 ppg scorer on a great contract, a young prospect, a large expiring contract, and another late first rounder. If no, what if we threw in our 2021 pick? Do you think this is an attractive trade package?

Our owner would not be interested - his goal is to make the playoffs not rebuild. Maybe if Brad demands a trade next trade deadline and you all are still a top 5 bad team would revisit. Or if you have any interest in taking John Wall.

How you all like Oubre?

I don't think we'd be interested in Wall. Good player but that contract is just too hefty.

As for Oubre, we love him. Since being inserted into the starting lineup, he's quickly become a core member of our team and a fan favorite. We've been playing better of late, and many attribute that to KO's two way play, the energy he brings, and his fit with the team. He sat out last night's game against the Bulls and we lost pretty ugly. I'm almost positive we'll match any offer he receives. He's made himself a lot of money with his recent play.

[nate33]

Phoenix Suns fan here. What would get a deal done for Beal, barring Booker and Ayton? As a starting point, would there be any interest in our pick, Warren, Jackson, Johnson, Bucks pick? Just for clarity, that's a likely top 5 pick (of course, no deal if it ends up being Zion), a highly efficient 18-20 ppg scorer on a great contract, a young prospect, a large expiring contract, and another late first rounder. If no, what if we threw in our 2021 pick? Do you think this is an attractive trade package?

I might consider it for the 2019 pick (assuming 2nd or 3rd), your 2020, 22 and 24 picks, and Warren and Bridges. (You would sign your 2019 pick and then trade him afterwards so the salaries would match and to get around the Stepien Rule.)

[penbeast0]

...

As for Oubre, we love him. Since being inserted into the starting lineup, he's quickly become a core member of our team and a fan favorite. We've been playing better of late, and many attribute that to KO's two way play, the energy he brings, and his fit with the team. He sat out last night's game against the Bulls and we lost pretty ugly. I'm almost positive we'll match any offer he receives. He's made himself a lot of money with his recent play.

Glad for you. He always seemed like a worker here, just played dumb. That could be our coaching staff not making his role in the offense clear. I wish him all the best.

[itlnsunsfan]

Phoenix Suns fan here. What would get a deal done for Beal, barring Booker and Ayton? As a starting point, would there be any interest in our pick, Warren, Jackson, Johnson, Bucks pick? Just for clarity, that's a likely top 5 pick (of course, no deal if it ends up being Zion), a highly efficient 18-20 ppg scorer on a great contract, a young prospect, a large expiring contract, and another late first rounder. If no, what if we threw in our 2021 pick? Do you think this is an attractive trade package?

I might consider it for the 2019 pick (assuming 2nd or 3rd), your 2020, 22 and 24 picks, and Warren and Bridges. (You would sign your 2019 pick and then trade him afterwards so the salaries would match and to get around the Stepien Rule.)

I think essentially 5 first round picks (I'm assuming Bridges would be a lottery pick in this draft) would be too steep for us. Beal could be long gone by the time they all confer. Maybe if there was some protection on them. But I'm thinking the highest we'd be willing to go is adding Bridges and our 2021 pick to the original package.

[penbeast0]

Phoenix Suns fan here. What would get a deal done for Beal, barring Booker and Ayton? As a starting point, would there be any interest in our pick, Warren, Jackson, Johnson, Bucks pick? Just for clarity, that's a likely top 5 pick (of course, no deal if it ends up being Zion), a highly efficient 18-20 ppg scorer on a great contract, a young prospect, a large expiring contract, and another late first rounder. If no, what if we threw in our 2021 pick? Do you think this is an attractive trade package?

I might consider it for the 2019 pick (assuming 2nd or 3rd), your 2020, 22 and 24 picks, and Warren and Bridges. (You would sign your 2019 pick and then trade him afterwards so the salaries would match and to get around the Stepien Rule.)

I think essentially 5 first round picks (I'm assuming Bridges would be a lottery pick in this draft) would be too steep for us. Beal could be long gone by the time they all confer. Maybe if there was some protection on them. But I'm thinking the highest we'd be willing to go is adding Bridges and our 2021 pick to the original package.

So, Phoenix pick (2 or 3), Bucks Pick, 2021 pick, Bridges and Warren is your offer?

[nate33]

I might consider it for the 2019 pick (assuming 2nd or 3rd), your 2020, 22 and 24 picks, and Warren and Bridges. (You would sign your 2019 pick and then trade him afterwards so the salaries would match and to get around the Stepien Rule.)

I think essentially 5 first round picks (I'm assuming Bridges would be a lottery pick in this draft) would be too steep for us. Beal could be long gone by the time they all confer. Maybe if there was some protection on them. But I'm thinking the highest we'd be willing to go is adding Bridges and our 2021 pick to the original package.

So, Phoenix pick (2 or 3), Bucks Pick, 2021 pick, Bridges and Warren is your offer?

Beal is a likely All-NBA player, at age 25, with a great attitude, and the kind of game that fits into any system. You're not getting him for one high pick plus a glorified 2nd round pick (that Bucks 1st) and a mystery pick 2 years down the road. That's laughable.

It's basically like me coming to your board and saying, "What will it take for you to trade us Aayton and Booker, barring Beal?"

[itlnsunsfan]

I might consider it for the 2019 pick (assuming 2nd or 3rd), your 2020, 22 and 24 picks, and Warren and Bridges. (You would sign your 2019 pick and then trade him afterwards so the salaries would match and to get around the Stepien Rule.)

I think essentially 5 first round picks (I'm assuming Bridges would be a lottery pick in this draft) would be too steep for us. Beal could be long gone by the time they all confer. Maybe if there was some protection on them. But I'm thinking the highest we'd be willing to go is adding Bridges and our 2021 pick to the original package.

So, Phoenix pick (2 or 3), Bucks Pick, 2021 pick, Bridges and Warren is your offer?

Our pick, 2021 pick, Bucks pick, Bridges, Warren, Jackson, and Johnson's expiring. To make salaries work, we could take back an undesirable contract from you guys (not Wall), or remove Johnson's expiring from the deal, or remove Jackson, whatever you guys prefer. But ya giving up most of our picks for the next 6 years, and Bridges, and Warren, for the 2 years remaining on Beal's contract is too much. I don't think you'd find any team willing to make that trade.

[nate33]

I think essentially 5 first round picks (I'm assuming Bridges would be a lottery pick in this draft) would be too steep for us. Beal could be long gone by the time they all confer. Maybe if there was some protection on them. But I'm thinking the highest we'd be willing to go is adding Bridges and our 2021 pick to the original package.

So, Phoenix pick (2 or 3), Bucks Pick, 2021 pick, Bridges and Warren is your offer?

Our pick, 2021 pick, Bucks pick, Bridges, Warren, Jackson, and Johnson's expiring. To make salaries work, we could take back an undesirable contract from you guys (not Wall), or remove Johnson's expiring from the deal, or remove Jackson, whatever you guys prefer. But ya giving up most of our picks for the next 6 years, and Bridges, and Warren, for the 2 years remaining on Beal's contract is too much. I don't think you'd find any team willing to make that trade.

Then there will be no trade.

Too many people seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Wizards either want or need to trade Beal. Nothing could be further from the truth. Beal is a great player, a young guy, and a guy who wants to stay in Washington. I can see a scenario were trading him could make sense long term, but keeping him works too. You're not going to lowball Washington into trading Beal for one good pick and a bunch of throw-ins. It's just not going to happen.

[itlnsunsfan]

So, Phoenix pick (2 or 3), Bucks Pick, 2021 pick, Bridges and Warren is your offer?

Our pick, 2021 pick, Bucks pick, Bridges, Warren, Jackson, and Johnson's expiring. To make salaries work, we could take back an undesirable contract from you guys (not Wall), or remove Johnson's expiring from the deal, or remove Jackson, whatever you guys prefer. But ya giving up most of our picks for the next 6 years, and Bridges, and Warren, for the 2 years remaining on Beal's contract is too much. I don't think you'd find any team willing to make that trade.

Then there will be no trade.

Too many people seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Wizards either want or need to trade Beal. Nothing could be further from the truth. Beal is a great player, a young guy, and a guy who wants to stay in Washington. I can see a scenario were trading him could make sense long term, but keeping him works too. You're not going to lowball Washington into trading Beal for one good pick and a bunch of throw-ins. It's just not going to happen.

I wasn't trying to make a lowball offer. I actually think it's a pretty attractive package that a lot of teams would listen to. I understand you want the most in return as possible, but has a team ever given up what you're asking in return for Beal?

[nate33]

I wasn't trying to make a lowball offer. I actually think it's a pretty attractive package that a lot of teams would listen to. I understand you want the most in return as possible, but has a team ever given up what you're asking in return for Beal?

No. Teams don't normally trade young All-NBA players because it's almost impossible to get a fair return. Which is why a Beal trade is unlikely.

The nearest analogy I can think of is when Utah trade Deron Williams - an All-NBA player, but not quite in that A list of MVP caliber types. That's basically what Beal is. The only difference is that Beal is 25 now while Deron Williams was 28 when the trade was made. So Beal arguably has even more value.

The Williams trade was made in 2012. Utah got the prior season's #3 over pick (Derrick Favors), the 2012 #3 pick, and a future 1st which turned out to be the 2014 #21 pick. They also got a competent veteran player in Devin Harris (11 points, 5 assists, PER of 16 at the time).

So I want two high lotto picks plus another pick. An analogous offer would be Ayton (about as well-regarded now as Favors was after his rookie year), your pick this year (assuming not Zion) and your 2021 pick. Since you don't want to give up Ayton, I want two future firsts to replace his value, which is how I got to my original proposal of the 2019, 2020, 2022 and 2024 picks.

[itlnsunsfan]

I wasn't trying to make a lowball offer. I actually think it's a pretty attractive package that a lot of teams would listen to. I understand you want the most in return as possible, but has a team ever given up what you're asking in return for Beal?

No. Teams don't normally trade young All-NBA players because it's almost impossible to get a fair return. Which is why a Beal trade is unlikely.

The nearest analogy I can think of is when Utah trade Deron Williams - an All-NBA player, but not quite in that A list of MVP caliber types. That's basically what Beal is. The only difference is that Beal is 25 now while Deron Williams was 28 when the trade was made. So Beal arguably has even more value.

The Williams trade was made in 2012. Utah got the prior season's #3 over pick (Derrick Favors), the 2012 #3 pick, and a future 1st which turned out to be the 2014 #21 pick. They also got a competent veteran player in Devin Harris (11 points, 5 assists, PER of 16 at the time).

So I want two high lotto picks plus another pick. An analogous offer would be Ayton (about as well-regarded now as Favors was after his rookie year), your pick this year (assuming not Zion) and your 2021 pick. Since you don't want to give up Ayton, I want two future firsts to replace his value, which is how I got to my original proposal of the 2019, 2020, 2022 and 2024 picks.

You're also asking for Bridges and Warren. What about them? Wouldn't Bridges be considered a high lottery pick? Warren is much better than Harris.

And Deron Williams at the time was considered a top 2 pg in the league, along with Chris Paul, and a top 5 guard. As good as Brad is, I don't know if I would put Beal at that level.

[nate33]

I wasn't trying to make a lowball offer. I actually think it's a pretty attractive package that a lot of teams would listen to. I understand you want the most in return as possible, but has a team ever given up what you're asking in return for Beal?

No. Teams don't normally trade young All-NBA players because it's almost impossible to get a fair return. Which is why a Beal trade is unlikely.

The nearest analogy I can think of is when Utah trade Deron Williams - an All-NBA player, but not quite in that A list of MVP caliber types. That's basically what Beal is. The only difference is that Beal is 25 now while Deron Williams was 28 when the trade was made. So Beal arguably has even more value.

The Williams trade was made in 2012. Utah got the prior season's #3 over pick (Derrick Favors), the 2012 #3 pick, and a future 1st which turned out to be the 2014 #21 pick. They also got a competent veteran player in Devin Harris (11 points, 5 assists, PER of 16 at the time).

So I want two high lotto picks plus another pick. An analogous offer would be Ayton (about as well-regarded now as Favors was after his rookie year), your pick this year (assuming not Zion) and your 2021 pick. Since you don't want to give up Ayton, I want two future firsts to replace his value, which is how I got to my original proposal of the 2019, 2020, 2022 and 2024 picks.

You're also asking for Bridges and Warren. What about them?

And Deron Williams at the time was considered a top 2 pg in the league, along with Chris Paul, and a top 5 guard. As good as Brad is, I don't know if I would put Beal at that level.

I don't care about Bridges and Warren. You can keep them. But some filler is necessary and I don't want any negative value contracts.

And Beal is currently at Williams' level, if not better. Williams' stats were always a bit overrated because of Utah's system. They came back down to earth once he was traded. Beal is averaging 29, 7 and 6 since Wall went down, with a TS% of .600. He is the 2nd best SG in the league behind only Harden.