WWE General Discussion II

[improper]

the way hogan dropped those n bombs so casually i highly doubt that was a one time thing. just one time he was caught

Yeah, I have an aunt who grew up in the south and she is just super casually racist and it really bothers me when I'm around her but I also am not about to start that fight. She doesn't use the n-word, at least not that I've ever heard, but it's still jarring to someone who grew up in Ohio.

But anyway, I can't think of a time in my life I've ever said that word unless I was singing along to a song in the car alone, and even then most of the time I skip it. People who use it so easily and casually are absolutely racist.

[Scott Hall]

The majority of his tittle runs were during the late 70's and early 80's of the Dusty and Harley era. When Sting
came around it didn't take long for him to become the franchise player.

Which makes it strange that you criticize him for being a midcarder by 1996. Well, no kidding. His run on top lasted 15 years. Besides, he had a career renaissance after the Harley/Dusty era. His run of 5 star matches with the "next guy" from 87 to 89 is an all-time great stretch. His 89 run may be the best individual year in wrestling history. Sure, in the mid 90s he wasn't great, but he certainly wasn't terrible. It wasn't embarrassing like Hogan's work in the 90s. And then he had a second career revival in 2004 with a bunch of matches that had no right to be as good as they were, considering his age.

Hogans prime was primarily played out on NBC and his match with Andre in 1988 on SNME had 30 million people watching.
Austins box office numbers destroy anything Flair did.

Oh come on. Both Hogan and Austin had the benefit of Vince McMahon as a promoter. It's not up to Flair to figure out marketing strategies and develop revenue streams. Don't act like Hogan was negotiating with TV executives and working on strategic plans. The territories couldn't compete with Vince's vision - that's not Flair's fault. If Hogan stuck to the territories, his matches wouldn't have been watched by 30 million people on NBC either.

Flairs WWF run from 1991-1993 was mediocre at best outside of the 1992 Rumble and the match with Savage
at WM 8. He was starting to get out classed by guys like Bret, HBK, Mr. Perfect etc and went back to WCW.

He was in his 40s by the time he joined WWF and still left two classic matches. How is this a criticism?

If your only criteria for greatest wrestler is 'how much did this guy draw compared to Hogan,' maybe you have a point. But in terms of main event match resume, promo and character work, time on top and drawing power, it's hard to top Flair all time.

Giving Hogan credit for what was clearly Vince McMahon's vision and execution is hilarious.

Giving Hogan credit for what was clearly Vince McMahon's vision and execution is hilarious

Whoa whoa whoa you gotta learn your history chicho. Hogan started becoming a phenomenon in the AWA after his role
in the Rocky movies. Verne Gagne knew how devastating it would be to lose him and tried to bribe the Iron Sheik
to break his leg. Vince Jr. recruited Hogan back harder then the Knicks will with Kevin Durant this summer.

Hogan was also huge in Japan and him and Andre made a ton of money over there... also Hogan and Andre were selling
out Shea Stadium in 1980 for Vince Sr. 5 years before the first Wrestlemania.

Giving Vince Jr. credit for creating Hogan is high comedy at it's finest.

Flair was definitely the king of the south but his great matches with Sting, Steamboat, Funk etc. were topped
several years later by HBK and Bret.

Flair is very similar to Bruno... Bruno was undisputed king of the North East and Flair is the undisputed King of the South.
Both guys were the man in their era but eventually better guys came around and surpassed them both in star power
and in ring quality. Also the Golden era and Attitude era are way more significant then Bruno in the 70's or NWA in the 80's.

It's not a "criticism" to still have them in the top 5 but not have them in the running for 1st

[Scott Hall]

I don't think any of that outside of the ring stuff should be a factor or even the politics backstage where you could
severely penalize HBK and extremely prop up Taker. Hogans racist rant when he was suicidal or Austin beating up Debra
is unfortunate but both seem to be one time incidents.

I get people are partial to the guys that they grew up watching or certain eras. I think Austin is the only guy to ever
seriously challenge Hogan as the GOAT but the longevity just isn't there as well as some misses in some big categories.
The same goes for the Rock if he didn't leave for Hollywood just as he was entering his prime or apex we could be talking
about him as the GOAT but the longevity isn't there either.

I don't think Cena, Bruno, Flair, Taker etc should be in the conversation.

the way hogan dropped those n bombs so casually i highly doubt that was a one time thing. just one time he was caught

I don't know and to be honest I really don't care anymore. I don't know him personally he has a ton of black friends that
vouch for him and there is no other incidents in his life that's been reported and it happened during his lowest point.
A lot of people say stuff in private that they don't mean like the Rock said.

What's done is done he said it and he paid his price. I don't think that and Austin beating his wife (which literally nobody
cares about for some reason) or Warrior holding Vince hostage or Bret punching out Vince or all the crap HBK pulled
should be factored into their careers.

Benoit murdered his family yet people are still able to evaluate his wrestling career despite the incident. When it
comes to the "GOAT" debate people are biased and have favorites and try to use these things to bring them down
when really it has no barring with what goes on in the ring.

[Stanford]

Giving Vince Jr. credit for creating Hogan is high comedy at it's finest.

I didn't.

[Spens1]

for Hogan, I think the AWA deserves the most credit, that's where he made his name, WWF had the sense to take him (if the AWA keeps him and we don't have late 80's AWA mess, then we'd be all watching AWA rather than the WWE today).

[spykelee]

I don't think there will ever be a truly recognised goat and its honestly best for business that way anyways.

Just comes down to what you value the most but there's a ton of defensible options really.

Anyone who values impact, needs to factor in both hhh and Vince McMahon. The latter is probably an automatic.

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM mobile app

[jakecronus8]

I don't think there will ever be a truly recognised goat and its honestly best for business that way anyways.

Just comes down to what you value the most but there's a ton of defensible options really.

Anyone who values impact, needs to factor in both hhh and Vince McMahon. The latter is probably an automatic.

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM mobile app

Well reasoned take. I bet for a lot of people, just like in sports, their GOAT will be whomever they grew up watching. When you're young you're impressionable and your fandom is likely at its highest.

[Stanford]

I don't think there will ever be a truly recognised goat and its honestly best for business that way anyways.

We could try!

It might be fun to vote on criteria, give them weight and then rate wrestlers based on that set of criteria we collectively voted for.

Let's say... We have two preliminary votes:
1. We have 100 possible points and then ask everyone to submit categories of criteria (ring work overall, match resume, promo work, character work, drawing power, longevity, diversity of character, etc) and assigned points out of 100 to the criteria you think are most important. You could give all 100 points to ring work or split everything up evenly. Up to you. At the end, I would total up the scores and assign a weight out of 100 based on the voting.

2. We have everyone submit a list of 20 wrestlers that could be considered GOAT, in no particular order, that everyone will rank. At the end, I'll total up the submissions and we'll rate the top 20.

Then once we have those two things done, I'll assemble a ballot that will feature the criteria and their weights next to each wrestler. Then everyone would rate each wrestler on each piece of criteria and I would calculate the results.

Would anyone be interested in something like that?

[daoneandonly]

I don't think there will ever be a truly recognised goat and its honestly best for business that way anyways.

We could try!

It might be fun to vote on criteria, give them weight and then rate wrestlers based on that set of criteria we collectively voted for.

Let's say... We have two preliminary votes:
1. We have 100 possible points and then ask everyone to submit categories of criteria (ring work overall, match resume, promo work, character work, drawing power, longevity, diversity of character, etc) and assigned points out of 100 to the criteria you think are most important. You could give all 100 points to ring work or split everything up evenly. Up to you. At the end, I would total up the scores and assign a weight out of 100 based on the voting.

2. We have everyone submit a list of 20 wrestlers that could be considered GOAT, in no particular order, that everyone will rank. At the end, I'll total up the submissions and we'll rate the top 20.

Then once we have those two things done, I'll assemble a ballot that will feature the criteria and their weights next to each wrestler. Then everyone would rate each wrestler on each piece of criteria and I would calculate the results.

Would anyone be interested in something like that?

Would be a fun exercise

[spykelee]

I don't think there will ever be a truly recognised goat and its honestly best for business that way anyways.

We could try!

It might be fun to vote on criteria, give them weight and then rate wrestlers based on that set of criteria we collectively voted for.

Let's say... We have two preliminary votes:
1. We have 100 possible points and then ask everyone to submit categories of criteria (ring work overall, match resume, promo work, character work, drawing power, longevity, diversity of character, etc) and assigned points out of 100 to the criteria you think are most important. You could give all 100 points to ring work or split everything up evenly. Up to you. At the end, I would total up the scores and assign a weight out of 100 based on the voting.

2. We have everyone submit a list of 20 wrestlers that could be considered GOAT, in no particular order, that everyone will rank. At the end, I'll total up the submissions and we'll rate the top 20.

Then once we have those two things done, I'll assemble a ballot that will feature the criteria and their weights next to each wrestler. Then everyone would rate each wrestler on each piece of criteria and I would calculate the results.

Would anyone be interested in something like that?

For sure. I was hoping somebody (not me) would take the Roman reigns of it. I am curious to once again see where the chips fall. Just gotta hammer out our criteria to get started but yea let's do it

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM mobile app

[iMoreland]

I'm a Roman Reigns fan, but it's pretty refreshing have babyfaces in WWE that crowds are actually cheering for.

Becky/Kofi/Seth.

[improper]

I'm a Roman Reigns fan, but it's pretty refreshing have babyfaces in WWE that crowds are actually cheering for.

Becky/Kofi/Seth.

It makes the shows better in and of itself because an invested crowd draws in the viewer. Real sports too are always more exciting when the crowd is amped. As a Cleveland fan, I remember the game last year against the Jets when Taylor got hurt and Mayfield came in. The second he completed that first pass, the crowd erupted and made the rest of the game electric.

Roman basically ruined entire shows because he caused the fans to turn on the product, and also the way they booked everything else to try to make him look most important hurt a lot of the wrestlers. Nobody felt important, so the crowd stopped giving a crap and it sucked the energy out of watching.

[JohnPferdelack]

According WrestleVotes, WWE now reconsider the opponent for Kurt Angle's last match!

[iMoreland]

Rob Gronkowski retired from the NFL, Vince walking in to offer him a contract

[JohnPferdelack]

Rob Gronkowski retired from the NFL, Vince walking in to offer him a contract

in a tag team with Mojo Rawley.

[Scott Hall]

Newest members of the HOF...

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[Scott Hall]

Read on Twitter

[Scott Hall]

Introducing "Ali"

Read on Twitter

[iMoreland]

Yikes man, this name shortening is getting ridiculous. That's the worst one yet. "Mustafa" is such an easy name for crowds to chant too, all they're doing with this is hurting his chances of getting over.

Stupid that they always do this with foreign names too. We'll never see a Daniel vs Randy, or a John vs Joe.

[Spens1]

Why is Vince such a geriatric, pedantic carny.

Mustafa Ali is a perfectly fine name. The name shortening thing needs to stop honestly.